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This week we dip our toes into a discussion of one of the most beloved blockbuster and scary movies of all time. Just in time to celebrate its 48th anniversary (celebrating 50 is for suckers) Mike, Ariel and guest Clayton Jones (from the Men Who Like...
This week we dip our toes into a discussion of one of the most beloved blockbuster and scary movies of all time. Just in time to celebrate its 48th anniversary (celebrating 50 is for suckers) Mike, Ariel and guest Clayton Jones (from the Men Who Like Men Who Like Movies podcast) are talkin' sharkin', talkin' working for a living, and if that's the case then we're talking about JAWS.
A big movie deserves a big episode, and we go extra deep this week to talk about all the headaches and behind the scenes drama, why this feels different from modern blockbusters, how the release of this movie changed how we see movies forever, and why the main trio works so well together. We also explore what it's like to rewatch this movie after 2020 and COVID, and whether Mayor Vaughn is truly a villain. We also talk about why Martha's Vineyard made for such a great location and some of the local characters that added to Jaws' flavor.
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00:00.40
mikechumpchange
And 3 2 1 hit record.
00:13.96
mikechumpchange
Ahoy made and welcome to the pod and the pendulum the show dedicated to covering all horror movie franchises 1 movie in 1 episode at a time I'm your host Mike Snoonian and I have as my first skipper tonight the gilligan to my captain the brody to Mike Quint she is a senior contributor at Goul's Magazine your online resource. We're a dissecting and discussing horror exclusively through the female perspective. Welcome back to the co-hosting chair. Aio Power shop
00:49.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Y'all know me know how I earn a living in can I be quint mike I want to be quint you can be Brody. Okay, thanks. Ah, yeah, you say talk about your hands. Yeah.
00:51.88
mikechumpchange
You can totally be quint. You can tell us we've been counting money all our lives and you have the speech in a place of prominence in your home. So I think you should be quint.
01:07.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
yeah yeah I do fun fact for all the listeners. Yeah I do have the Indianapolis speech in my main bathroom in my home. So yeah.
01:10.96
mikechumpchange
It works. Yeah, excellent, joining us also as an invited guest. You've heard him way back when we discuss leatherface he is the co-host of the men who like men who like movies podcasts. I get that right? Oh my good cause that's a mouthful it certainly is but we is greeting in salutations to Mr. Clayton Jones Clayton how are we welcome back. Man. We're excited to have you back on. We think we're going to saddle your.
01:30.61
Clayton
Um, you did yes.
01:31.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
01:38.36
Clayton
I am doing great I'm so excited to talk about this.
01:38.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
01:49.27
mikechumpchange
Show partner with like the worst movie of the franchise. We think you nominated him for that So I need to reach out. Um so good for you for hoppy law the classic here.
01:55.74
Clayton
Ah, he.
02:01.20
Clayton
Yeah, I'm such a good friend I was like I'm gonna take the good one and you can ah you know.
02:04.52
mikechumpchange
He gets to talk about Michael Kane at least which is always a good time. So but that's about the only thing that that has going for it all right? We are here to kick off a new franchise and we are starting with a doozy of a picture. It is what it's a big one probably.
02:09.42
Clayton
Um, yes.
02:20.22
Clayton
He.
02:20.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's a big one.
02:24.37
mikechumpchange
This is probably the biggest film we've covered right? I mean it must be. We've covered some classics. Yeah, and that's actually a question I'll ask when will we kind of go into our first impression. So I'll save that for just a minute here I guess.
02:26.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah I think so because it's got cross genre appeal.
02:41.29
mikechumpchange
It is one of the most recognizable films of all time giving birth to the modern summer blockbuster and changing the ways that movies were released. It traumatized a whole generation of people to the degree that many refuse to step into a bathtub let alone the ocean we're here to talk about jaws. 1975 epic horror adventure from Steven Spielberg starring Roy Schider Robert Shaw Richard Dreyfus Lorraine Gray and Bruce the shark and to set the mood. We are all wearing speedos while spooning some chum in between hot takes nothing better.
03:10.72
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
03:19.62
mikechumpchange
But a belly full of chum on a warm July day right? Oh fun, fun fact about me I can't do asmr like it gets under my skin in such a way.
03:21.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is gonna be your asmr is me just eating Chum while we do this? Yes, whole Oh me, either samesys.
03:24.63
Clayton
Yeah, really is the best I've got a big old bucket next to me.
03:36.25
Clayton
Ah.
03:38.25
mikechumpchange
It's really like grounds or divorce for me or if like my wife puts it on too often when I'm around I'm like that's it like you can cheat. You can lie you can steal just don't listen to Asmr please? Okay, um.
03:47.56
Clayton
He.
03:51.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's really funny.
03:53.43
mikechumpchange
Really quickly I just want to give a quick shout out to some of the sources that we pulled from for this episode because we wanted to give them some credit first and foremost the jaws log from writer Carl Gottlieb it's basically a running account of his time. On the set of jaws like writing it filming it and all has a lot of great behind-the scenes stories there. There's also the making of the movie jaws by eh Blake she was a reporter on Mar Martha's vineyard and her book is great because it's less about. Hollywood mechanisms and jaws and more about how the movie impacted the locals and all the locals that worked on it. So there's some phenomenal stories there. Um there's also just when you thought it was safe a jaws companion by Peterjankowitz which is a phenomenal. Quick and easy read. Especially when we get into the sequels and a pair of documentaries the making of jaws and the shark is still working both of which are included on the Blu-ray the making of jaws in particular is outstanding. It gets all the main principles. It's kind of like a. Um, his name was Jason or like the elm street documentary where you just get like a lot of talking heads but you get like really cool stories andcdecknecdotes and details from everybody involved so just wanted to give a shout out to that like if you.
05:21.11
mikechumpchange
Kind of like what we do here this week and want more jaws I would point you in those directions. So this was my initial question. We kind of touched on it. Briefly is there another blockbuster movie that is like this well-made when we think of like hollywood blockbusters now in particular. They can be really fun and they're well crafted but is there anything that is like is expertly made as a piece of film as jaws is.
05:49.82
Clayton
I would say no.
05:50.44
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I was yeah, it's hard. It's hard to think of one I was thinking of is Jurassic Park a blockbuster no know qualified I think that's really well made that holds up like like nothing like.
06:00.50
Clayton
Oh for sure.
06:01.96
mikechumpchange
Um, oh yeah, absolutely oh yeah, oh yeah, that movie was hm.
06:09.53
mikechumpchange
It does. Yeah.
06:10.41
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Really? well you know.
06:10.82
Clayton
They both pulled up very well and on this rewatch I was just like god jaws is really a perfect movie and Jurassic Park is amazing but I would I would say jaws edge edges it out a little bit.
06:17.68
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Hey hey.
06:25.43
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Absolutely oh absolutely I agree with that me.
06:27.61
mikechumpchange
Yeah, jaws feels like a blockbuster that isn't necessarily meant to be a blockbuster look at a lot of ways. It's a really small picture where Jurassic park is like just epic in scale. But that don't hold that against it I mean the only other thing I could think of was like t 2
06:34.34
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
06:37.52
Clayton
Ah.
06:41.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's true.
06:46.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay.
06:47.49
mikechumpchange
Like terminator 2 from cameron it's another like incredibly well-made yeah big I think of like end game and even star wars like as much as I love star wars I wouldn't argue that it's an incredibly wellmade film like the acting is really all over the map.
06:49.54
Clayton
Um.
07:01.74
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
07:07.60
mikechumpchange
Um, the effects were at times like pretty janky. The dialogue is something else and yet it is so much better than the sum of its parts where jaws like fits in perfect with like that kind of new Hollywood type of filmmaking.
07:16.74
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay.
07:26.81
mikechumpchange
So what are our first impressions I guess you know I think it's usually it's fascinating when we cover a movie where we assume like everyone's going to be 5 stars. No notes and then the opinions cover a pretty wide range. But I think we might all be on the 5 stars. No notes bandwagon here. But what was the first time like we remember watching this movie and have our like thoughts on it evolved over time and Clayton as our guest wanted to kick things off.
07:56.73
Clayton
Well I can't remember jaws really not being in my life. Um I saw it very young and loved it. It frightened me thrilled me I'd never really seen anything like it. Was one of those kids I love dinosaurs reptiles sharks I had all those little nph books with all the different you know, kinds of them and stuff and it just fascinated me and it's a really good movie I had to love it. Um, since then I have watched this I don't know. How many times every single format from Vhs to four k to I watched it in theaters and Boise a couple years ago when it had that imax re releasese and that was the first time I'd seen it on the big screen if I had known Rachel back the time I would have ah made her go with me since I was out there.
08:46.98
mikechumpchange
Think.
08:48.70
Clayton
But yeah, it's amazing. And yeah, it's just it's wonderful I attempted to read the book as a kid and ah couldn't get past Chrissy's death scene. It um was very traumatic for me and I never went back and tried to read it even though I'm sure I can handle it now at the rifle age of 34
09:02.35
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
09:07.33
Clayton
Um I did listen to the cover a credits episode about it that compared the book and the movie and from what I heard Ah I feel like I was okay in skipping the book though.
09:17.30
mikechumpchange
Yeah, it's the rare case and when people say like oh the book is always better than the movie like this is decidedly not the case when it comes with the book here. Not that it's a bad read. But I think we'll get into it. Like how much better the movie is and what they took from the book and removed from the book to really streamline things so this is just a piece that you've been with like your whole life and I think that's the case for a lot of folks like I don't remember a time when Jaws like wasn't a part of like.
09:50.93
Clayton
Yeah I wish I could remember the first time I had seen it but it just it's always been there I feel like I was just born and it was in my brain.
09:53.70
mikechumpchange
My life in some way who.
09:58.91
mikechumpchange
Your dad was a shark and just remembers you just remember like him bringing you home wrapped in his fin and you just remember that from day one Aio How about yourself.
10:03.72
Clayton
Ah, yeah.
10:08.80
Clayton
Yeah.
10:14.92
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, well I don't remember the first time I saw it either but differently than Clayton because it wasn't always there like it's a horror movie I saw later so middle school or high school I think but.
10:30.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I really don't remember I wish I could remember it probably was like on in the background in a way I didn't fully appreciate and then like I rewatched it more and more and I was like oh I really love this and so um, like a lot of horror fans I watch it every fourth of July i. It's a movie that I know really well now. So I don't mind if I kind of like you know, fourth of July if you've been like drinking in in the sun all day I can go home put on jaws and just kind of relax and if I fall asleep for a second. It's like not a big deal. Um, and I watched it. A lot especially during covid the parallels are obvious so I won't spend much time on that. But um, it was definitely a comfort watch over the last several years and it just there's no like diminishing returns. It's always just as perfect as it's ever been.
11:23.33
mikechumpchange
I agree I think it's a near perfect movie and I like that idea of like watching it and kind of drifting off to sleep just kind of putting it on and having on the background because it's a great hang movie like these are characters that.
11:37.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, if he.
11:40.12
mikechumpchange
You enjoy kind of like spending some time with and there are a lot of like very quiet moments in this movie where it is easy to drift off. It's this is also just one of those movies that like it's been around for as long as I can remember um I remember.
11:45.65
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
11:57.74
mikechumpchange
This movie and the sequel being on constant rotation as like the Sunday night movie of the week movies growing up when you had like 3 networks and the Uhf channels and that was it so it seemed like every other week either jaws and jaws two were. What was playing especially in the summertime and it got to the point where I watched the two of them so much that I would mix them up inside of my brain. It would be hard to kind of disentangle them I do think that after childhood.
12:26.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, and.
12:33.52
mikechumpchange
I don't remember like revisiting jaws until universal released it for the first time in like the year two thousand when they had like their first initial Dvd press of it so it had been a solid dozen or so year since I had watched it I did read like the novel just ahead of getting. With the Blu-ray and we'll definitely talk about some of the differences that are there. It's since become like an absolutely yearly revisit especially around the fourth July weekend to me this movie is like the holiday movie when it comes to the fourth of July for obvious reasons like it's such a great. Symbol of summer and like it takes place right around the fourth of July it's right on like the beaches of Martha's vineyard which I'm someone who really enjoys spending a lot of time out at Cape Cod so So me it's just like the perfect movie to throw around for that time. The big thing I remember. Growing up is not so much the movie itself but like all the merchandising for it like the sticker books. The t-shirts the video games the lunchboxes, the toys. It's something that like I just remember my cousins having so much gear all around. Jaws like all the little the comic books and books you could read about it. So even more than the movie like just going through like the tops trading cards of jaws would be something that I would remember like having a bunch of those growing up as a kid with like.
14:03.29
mikechumpchange
Photos from the movie and then like fun factoids or snippets of scenes on the back of the cards and it's funny like a couple years later star wars is going to come out and you have to think Lucas took ah the idea from jaws in terms of how do we merchandise. This movie and and Lucas famously signed away like he basically got a huge percentage of the toy rights for star wars and that is more than the movie. The toys are what made Lucas like a billionaire. It allowed him to kind of finance. The series on his own after that. So. Ah, think jaws was the first movie to do that.
14:41.40
Clayton
Um, if if George Lucas still has those toy rights. He's making man I was a target last night and happened to walk down toy aisle and I had no idea legos were so expensive and there was this lego set there was literally just the millennium falcon by itself. That's all it was and it was one hundred and eighty dollars just for I was just like Jesus. It's like your whole Christmas present kid you can build this one toy and look at it I was shocked absolutely shocked.
15:01.20
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah.
15:06.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, never take it apart.
15:10.45
mikechumpchange
Um, I wonder how many of those are sold in like a third of the way built with pieces that are scattered throughout like basements. Yeah pieces just like under couch cushions and sofas and.
15:19.13
Clayton
Jammed in someone's foot.
15:26.77
mikechumpchange
Behind Litter boxes everywhere. So it's crazy how much it spent more expensive and when we talk about how much money this movie made like we'll definitely talk about that like what just movie tickets alone like what they went for back then and.
15:28.46
Clayton
Yeah.
15:43.25
mikechumpchange
How much money how many people had to see this movie in order for it to make the kind of money that it did. It's kind of nuts. So all right? Let's talk a little bit about the background of this movie. It's really it's a fascinating discussion because the.
15:48.94
Clayton
Yeah, yeah.
16:01.63
mikechumpchange
Behind the scenes drama is about as fascinating and known as the movie itself at this point by all accounts. It's an absolutely disastrous shoot and it's a miracle that the movie was made at all and it's watchable. Let alone that it's an iconic masterpiece like that. That came out of the other end of everything is pretty amazing. So before we can really talk about the movie itself. We got to talk a little bit about Peter Benchley the author of Jaws he was a journalist he had done a lot of environmental writing he was looking to write his first novel. And he had presented a 12 page outline to his publisher and of the story of Jaws and based on that outline he was given about a grand upfront and 2500 for the first 4 chapters another thirty five hundred bucks after completion. So. Not a lot of money for one of the biggest moneymakers of all time but he is banking on the paperback rights. He's like I won't make a lot for this but when it goes paperback I am going to cash in in a big way which is what he did. He turns the first draft in the word to mouth is very strong. And the publishers know like they have a pretty big hit on their hands when it comes to negotiating those paperback rights which is where you get like back in the 70 s and eighty s you would have the book clubs and book of the month promotions you would have like the wire racks at your local grocery shop and pharmacy.
17:30.34
mikechumpchange
Filled with all the bestsellers. What we would call like the airport lounge and offles now. But you just had those in every store in the country back then they're filled with that's where these books are going to go and that's the idea I get the book there. He nets about. Five hundred and seventy five thousand dollars for the paperback writes from double day. So he cashes in in a pretty massive way in the meantime producing partners like Richard Zaek and David Brown they always have their ear to the ground for the next like what's going to be the next shorefire bestseller. We can acquire the film rights to Zane and brown were executive producers on the sting which was a huge commercial and award success. They had serve producers on tidy little indie films like sound and music the french connection Hatton yeah, it's.
18:21.17
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, never heard of him.
18:21.31
Clayton
He.
18:25.96
mikechumpchange
Pat these little titles you're right that we would never hurt hear of right? They're kind of like the Francis ha of their day like like the little indies that could make it. Um they were line producers on these movies and then they were stepping up this thinging I think might have been the first time they served as executive producers which is.
18:27.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, no. It says.
18:45.25
mikechumpchange
You make the real money. Um, they had produced a little known director's first feature film Sugarland Express by Steven Spielberg he at that point had to cut his bones on television shows like I think night galleries and. Ah, he did a great episode of Columbo the first episode of the first season to really yeah, the one with the authors in it like it's a fantastic little little app I would stra I did it I didn't know he directed and we watched it. It's like directed by Steven Spielberg and I'm like holy shit.
19:08.21
Clayton
A fantastic colombo episode.
19:09.38
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh I didn't know that.
19:22.97
Clayton
That is a fun fact who didn't love colombo.
19:23.75
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's a fun fact I know you love colombo.
19:23.90
mikechumpchange
Did not know it's a super funny fact, the colombo rules colombo absolutely rules. Um duel was his first real success. He had made this for television in America it's ah similar to jaws and you have this massive being hunting down men. And this case like Dennis Weaver where he goes toe to toe with an 18 wheel truck that movie was so successful that it was actually recut for european audiences and released theatrically dual I would.
19:55.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That sounds familiar I'm sure I've never seen it. But.
19:59.41
Clayton
I am a hundred and fifty percent sure I've never seen it and also I've never heard of this one.
20:01.96
mikechumpchange
Get out. Oh definitely seek it out. It's one of those movies. It gets talked about a lot with Spielberg like it's the movie he did before jaws was made for Tv. It's awesome like I picked up.
20:15.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And a truck. It's like a sentient truck.
20:19.63
mikechumpchange
It's no no, it's ah just an asshole driving the truck essentially the dude. Yeah, that's exactly it it what it ends up being is this guy was tailgating like Dennis Weaver's character Weaver or no weaver I think cuts him off at the beginning of the movie.
20:22.62
Ariel Powers_Schaub
So it's like joy ride.
20:38.82
mikechumpchange
And then the guy is like fuck you and absolutely haunts this dude everywhere he goes it is. It's really tense like for a 90 minute made for Tv movie that really focuses on 1 guy for like 85% of the runtime. It's super intense I would. Highly recommend you seek it out. Um, oh yeah, absolutely like it's every you can definitely rinse it online I got it is part of like the bluray collection that universal release with a bunch of Spielberg's work up.
20:59.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, can you find it at like Okay, oh yeah, for sure.
21:15.35
mikechumpchange
Through the lost world I think is the last movie that's included and dual is part of it. Jaws is part of it. It looks fantastic. It was written by Richard Matheson a famous horror and sci-fi writer. So it's based on his short story in the script.
21:27.73
Clayton
Writer of somewhere in time I believe.
21:33.94
mikechumpchange
So it's something I would strongly recommend do this just buy it. It's you can take a look you might find I think I got the Spielberg Bluray collection for like twenty bucks like sometimes you can find it super super cheap too. Then that would be where it fit.
21:34.62
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You can get the bluray for $9 I'm just going to buy that. Yeah.
21:46.57
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay, sweet I'm super excited I'm never I don't think I've heard of this maybe I have oh.
21:55.41
mikechumpchange
Oh I smell a Patreon episode coming up then once we once you ordered and watch it. Maybe we do like a fun little commentary and a little watch along for it. Um, all right? So they were high on spielberg because he had also.
22:04.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Let's do it.
22:11.13
mikechumpchange
Just directed his first theatrical feature the Sugarland Express which is a little kind of crime thriller. It was a modest success and that it recouped its budget and then made a few bucks. It was a critical darling.
22:19.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
22:26.97
mikechumpchange
But nothing that suggested that spiel work was going to go on to become Spielberg but he was definitely a director that brown and xne like had their eye on and wanted to nurture along their way. So David Brown has like this inside track on up and coming books that might great make for great for great moviey adaptations because his wife is Helen Guley Brown she is the editor at cosmopolitan at the time David's own roots were in publishing he was journalist. That worked up to becoming a managing editor at Cosmo himself at 1 point but his wife is getting all of these books for review at Cosmo and she has a foot in the literary world. So she's able to kind of filter things through David and say like you might want to keep your eye out on this one but there's a really good buzz behind the scenes. Before it's even published because that's the thing like once this thing is released and and it's out in the world like once the novel of jaws comes out like benchley is going to have his pickup studios to make it deal with so they're trying to sign him before the movie. Or sorry before the book even gets released so eventually brown and zonic they sign the rights to produce jaws for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and that was for like included the bait salary plus like writing a draft of the script as well.
23:50.81
mikechumpchange
And they hire benchly to write at least two drafts of the script so he can adapt his own work for the screen. A fun fact about Zane and brown like they're massively successful at universal in 1979 they jump ship for Warner Brothers I'm sorry for twentieth Century Fox and they leave there after like 1 of 12 movies they presented like we should do this for a motion picture only one of the dozen movies they are ideas they present gets turned into a movie final straw.
24:24.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
24:25.51
mikechumpchange
The studio shelving their adaptation of Eric Van lusbuster's novel the ninja which they had spent almost $1000000 on to get the rights to and they wanted to tap John Carpenter directed and Twentieth century foxes a were no thanks and. They leave It's pretty acrimonious. You can find some articles um online about how pissed off they were at Twentieth Century Fox when they left some um, leaving some cash and again that would have been an early like post Halloween movie.
24:52.83
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Man leaving money on the table.
25:02.70
mikechumpchange
For carpenter he would go on to do escape from New York and if you want to know more about that. You can go to our archives from june yeah, so they got to find a director Steven Spielberg is not the first choice they want John Sturges to direct jaws because he had.
25:03.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I can.
25:10.46
Clayton
Ah, her.
25:21.75
mikechumpchange
And Lis made one ocean based drama with his adaptation of the old man in the sea in 1958 and he had done a pair of like massively expensive and expansive hits for the studios he had that was the director behind. Magnificent 7 and the great escape which to me would probably mean you're getting like Steve and queenen and Charles Brotson and jaws if John Sturges says yes yes after multiverse the the version jaws. Yeah.
25:48.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Could you imagine that's in some parallel universe that does exist. Yeah.
25:49.50
Clayton
Oh My god. I Don't hate. It.
25:59.50
mikechumpchange
Don't hate it. But it's a massively drip different movie right? I mean you think of the Greek Scape and the magnificent seven I don't think you're getting that small kind of personal drama that jaws offers I think you're going big from the get go um Richard sorry Rick Richards is offered the job.
25:59.58
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
25:59.71
Clayton
Yeah, yeah.
26:06.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The her.
26:07.10
Clayton
Now.
26:16.13
mikechumpchange
Um, but he kept calling the shark a whale during the preproduction lunch meeting with xanne and Brown and you know after lunch like brown looks at Xanac and he's like he's out but they basically turn this guy away at this point because they're like he doesn't even know what the fucking creature is.
26:21.44
Clayton
Oh boy.
26:33.69
Ariel Powers_Schaub
How do you fuck that up. It is not confusing.
26:35.90
mikechumpchange
Um, pretty easily. It's still they're very different animals.
26:37.99
Clayton
Have you been on Twitter r e l people are dumb.
26:41.51
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Guess I guess.
26:43.13
mikechumpchange
Yes, I feel like people were like overall smarter in the 70 s in some ways like I think we have a much better a much dumber culture true.
26:48.96
Clayton
That is very fair.
26:50.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well, we don't know that they didn't have Twitter so maybe they just weren't showing their asses all the time.
26:57.49
Clayton
Um, here.
26:58.50
mikechumpchange
But at the very least they have the emotional intelligence not to show their asses all the time I don't know you're probably right and I don't know this guy. He's he's.
27:01.29
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Guess still how do you fuck that up calling a shark a whale those are pretty different Anyway, whatever I'm on the side of the orcas.
27:09.80
Clayton
Yeah, a same I want to give them money by Merch you know.
27:16.95
mikechumpchange
He's he's kind of the dawn draper of his day richards like he wasn't necessarily like ah of studio director at that time he was a commercial director that his clients included like Polaroid Coca Cola volkswagen hurtz
27:19.72
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Boom.
27:34.58
mikechumpchange
Pepsi so he did coke and Pepsi were his commercial. It's really kind of like that's exactly you know, um, his directing career is pretty brief but like it's well thought of like he is behind the camera for a movie called rafferty and the gold dust twins.
27:37.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, that's betting on red and black. You don't want to bet against yourself.
27:52.85
mikechumpchange
Farewell my lovely and culpe cattle ah company in 1972 which is what got him consideration I have never seen any of these movies but I hear the well-regarded.
28:03.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Now.
28:06.99
Clayton
Ah, me either. But I miss when movies had titles like farewell. My lovely.
28:09.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Is.
28:12.70
mikechumpchange
Right? Yeah I'm trying to think of like ah now it's just what's like the glass Great funky title. We've had Yeah I Wish that movie was better.
28:21.87
Ariel Powers_Schaub
We're all going to the world's fair.
28:22.50
Clayton
Yeah, same I didn't understand the hype when I saw it I was like really I wanted to really love it. My tried. Yeah.
28:26.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Really like it I Really really like it. Yeah, it was for me.
28:29.31
mikechumpchange
A lot of people really do a lot of people like totally do.
28:35.98
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Know how that goes. Yeah.
28:37.84
mikechumpchange
Um, but you know all right Steven Spielberg who did not make we are all going to the world's fair, um, he gets the job I guess he stole a copy of the book from. Universals offices. They had a bunch of the blank pages and he's like oh what's this and he like swipes it thinking like is it a movie about like a crazy dentist and he absolutely loved the movie. He lobbies for and he gets the job but there's still no official writer yet. For the movie now they've got their director. They're waiting on benchley script and he turns at the first draft Peter Benchley it follows the book pretty closely and brown and xanek want something a little bit different. What they call like a a to z adventure story. Do you guys know what that means I had an either until kind of reading up but it basically means trimming all of the fat from the book where if there's something that doesn't propel the plot or the action forward. They want to cut it out.
29:27.97
Clayton
I Have not heard that term.
29:28.24
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Now.
29:43.88
mikechumpchange
So when we talk about the differences between the book and the movie we'll discuss some of those things that they cut they cut I guess we'll just kind of throw them in right here. The major differences between jaws the novel and jaws the movie number 1 the reason why mayor von wants. Doesn't want to close. The beaches isn't so much about the town's economic prospects so much as he owes the mafia a lot of money and if he closes the beaches. He will not get the chance to really kind of like skim from the top of the profits the summer people bring in.
30:12.94
Clayton
Um.
30:18.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I.
30:20.89
mikechumpchange
In order to get that money. So it's really more of a personal motivation. Um Hooper is the younger brother of a a man that Brody's wife once stated and Brody's wife goes on to have a very tourd affair with hooper right? under his nove and I think. Hoop is kind of portrayed as like a lot more cynical paunchy. Um, just like not what you envision when you watch jaws so you know Brody like basically finds out about the affair and almost kills hooper with his bare hands like on the deck of the orca.
30:59.55
mikechumpchange
Before they sail out so some tension hooper does not survive his time in the shark cage he gets eaten. It's another pretty big difference and a big I think thematic and smart choice that Spielberg makes besides all of those things is in the book.
30:59.73
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Whoa.
31:06.85
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No.
31:18.61
mikechumpchange
Every night on the orca they go back in the shore and they go home. They sleep in their own beds and they're done for the day and Spielberg is like well that is dramatically inert like that's not a good idea whatsoever we need to keep them out there. That's much more though as soon as you can see land. It's like you will just go back. Um, the final difference is the shark just kind of dies like it is been shot at had been harpooned. Brody is the last man standing once again, he is resigned to his fate. He's like well I guess this is where I get eaten and as the shark approaches him.
31:38.86
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, her.
31:58.20
mikechumpchange
It just dies and then Drifts into the bottom of the sea and that's it Yeah very convenient and a very kind of anticlimmatic ending and it actually was a source of great tension between.
32:02.95
Clayton
What's convenient for him.
32:02.96
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Her.
32:15.54
mikechumpchange
Spielberg and Benchley like when they would talk about the movie in Spielberg would tell him his ending bench like it's like well that's stupid like that's not going to work and Spielberg's like it's going to work for a fucking movie all right? like right.
32:26.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well, that's the thing right? like they're each an expert in their craft. So I let the man cook.
32:33.25
Clayton
As far as being experts in their craft I heard some of the actual excerpts from ah that a fair storyline on covered of credits talking about the book and that is some of those classic men writing about women ah things you would see it is.
32:35.46
mikechumpchange
So in.
32:41.36
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh no.
32:47.66
mikechumpchange
Um, have was bosoms were heaving um that would be a great name for ah like a romantic movie bosoms were heaving.
32:50.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Mm she boobed boobily or whatever and.
32:51.84
Clayton
Wolf Basically basically yes.
33:06.50
mikechumpchange
Maybe not a great name but it would be a name for a movie could be a name. Ah um, didn't have to be lady bosoms like men could have bosoms as well. So yeah, absolutely. Um.
33:07.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It It could be a name. Yeah.
33:08.77
Clayton
Yes.
33:18.28
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's 2023 anyone can have bosoms happy pride.
33:18.81
Clayton
Yeah, yeah.
33:22.82
mikechumpchange
I'll say this like Benchley like later on would say like all right? Spielberg's a genius like what do I know like he was absolutely right to do what he did um and Benchley was like a very well-respected writer not just as a novelist but as like as someone who would go on to write a. But oceanography of aography specifically he would write at a number of publications. So there are definitely some questionable things about jaws the novel. But there's a reason it sold millions of of good. It is a page turner like it is a pretty those changes aside it's a pretty solid read I just think the book is much better. Um, anyway, after reading Benchley Script Spielberg writes his own draft of it more is an exercise to see if he could figure out where he wanted the movie to go and in his version quint is introduced at a movie theater. And a scene like very reminiscent of cape fear where quint is watching Gregory Peck and Moby Dick and he's just bellowing with laughter in this super obnoxious way to the point where like everybody gets up and leaves a theater and it's just quint howling at how ridiculous. Moby Dick movie is and Spielberg approach Greg Re Peck who had the rights of the movie I say can we use this in Jaws and Peck declined. He's like you know I really don't like this movie very much It's not one of my best works and feels like I'm being made fun of here. So.
34:55.97
mikechumpchange
I gonna have to decline. You don't want to see himself laooed so after Spielberg does his draft gi get he says is' more of an exercise Howard Sackler is brought upon by I think brown specifically he was an award letting winning playwright and screenwriter best known for the great white hope. And he takes a run of the script. He's got a short window. He can actually work on it so he tells them like look like I know you're not going to use this as your final draft just take my name off it. I'm happy to write some ideas down. Um. Spielberg says while it wasn't like a complete draft. It definitely broke the back of the story. He's like okay once I read sackler's script or his ideas I could figure out here's how we're gonna make this movie and it's sackler that is given credit for the idea of like. Quint having the Indianapolis speech I don't know if he wrote the actual speech or a draft of it but in his version he's like quint was a member of the Uss Indianapolis he's gonna talk about his experience there so he gets that initial credit. Um. But still no script so brown and xek they're scrambling for a writer and they have another massive obstacle. They needed to finish the principal photography for jaws by the end of June and it's already like February Nineteen Seventy four they have a june thirtieth deadline and they're.
36:22.79
Clayton
Um.
36:25.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I'm stressed are they going to make it.
36:27.33
mikechumpchange
I don't know we don't know if this movie gets made um tune in next week and we talk about a different movie because Jaws never came out. Um, there's a couple of reasons one. It's economics like by early end of June early July the seasonal rates kick in like they're going to shoot in Martha's vineyard
36:31.31
Clayton
Um.
36:46.85
mikechumpchange
And instead of being fifteen bucks a night for a hotel room which like wow $15 a night fifteen bucks will get you a mint on your pillow at Martha's vineyard at this point um, not only do they have worry about like the rate basically tripling.
36:58.39
Clayton
Um.
37:05.71
mikechumpchange
Stay of the vineyard. But also there's the looming screen actors guild strike in universal said we're not going to go forward with any movie that can't be completed by June thirtieth because they didn't they didn't know if they would have the actors they didn't know if they could do the promotion so they needed to get something written quick. Ah, Spielberg had tapped his friend Carl Gottlieb for the role of Harry Meadows the newspaperman in amity and he's like well he's a writer he could do it and they hire car botleb to write the script for jaws there writing process the making of of jaws the creative process. It sounds this is where it sounds lovely and tell me what you think of this so most of the cast and crew like they're staying in hotels and Martha's vineyard Spielberg Gottlib Verna fields and a few others have their own house right on the water on the vineyard. It's got a roaring fireplace. It comes with a living maid name Adele who are Adela who was like. According to Gottlieb and the jaws log everybody put on at least £10 because her cooking was so great. Um, they would have like sixteen Millimeter films like shipped in from the studio to unwind to at night.
38:27.42
mikechumpchange
And every night like Gottlieb would just like type away in his little corner on the typewriter while a fire was roaring and they just basically wrote the movie on the fly like all right here are your pages for the next few days here you go and then he would. Write in rewrite upcoming things while Spielberg would kind of like lounge about or he in fields would try to like cut early scenes of the movie and it sounds sounds like a really nice way to make a movie.
38:57.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah, it sounds like a party but like a relaxing party.
38:58.91
Clayton
Yeah, not micromanaged to death like everything is now.
39:01.57
mikechumpchange
Know I mean give me a woman that just comes over and makes like French pastry desserts. You know while I watch like sixteen Millimeter Films of Spartacus you know after a hard day of shooting.
39:10.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, please.
39:11.65
Clayton
Are. By the fire. You know.
39:17.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh man. Yes.
39:20.84
mikechumpchange
Especially and somewhere like the vineyard so that was probably the only thing that went very well in turn It was comfortable for these guys because everything else is a hell scape when it comes to the shoot meanwhile like the rest of the cast and crew they're running around the island.
39:33.74
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
39:40.11
mikechumpchange
Everybody's hooking up with everybody like every crew member like they're all in their young early 20 s all of the young women that are back on the island and like working as like bar staff and waitresses and are the hotels like it's basically a giant like hookup factory for the whole summer.
39:58.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Good for them.
39:58.85
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah Richard Dreyfus comes on on the set and he at first he would go to Spielberg's house for dinner every night like for for the first week and then he realizes like I'm Richard Dreyfus I was just an american graffiti.
39:58.92
Clayton
Ah, 70 s.
40:17.45
mikechumpchange
And ah, there's a lot of available women on the island I think the way Gottlieb but puts it in the jaws log is like he was never like watch for company and he never was with like the same person twice basically like Dreyfus has a really good so somewhere in the vineyard. There's probably like a half dozen. Now 50 year old kind of like nevish kids that have no idea who their dad is because I'm sure that protection was not used anyway. Jaws the thirstiest movie on the ocean. Okay.
40:41.64
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, yeah.
40:43.30
Clayton
Ah.
40:46.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No.
40:47.58
Clayton
Now.
40:53.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Perhaps.
40:56.65
mikechumpchange
So yeah, we mentioned a Spielberg want to shoot on the ocean which had not been done before he was adamant that jaws looks better than these other ocean-based films because they always shoot on a tank and in his eyes they look ridiculous. They look fake. Um. Why do you folks think that like filming on the water. What's so rare like why do people not do this. Let's go.
41:20.77
Clayton
Ah, um.
41:25.36
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The horrors of the sea. Ah the expensive equipment. The know how to be on the water. Ah seasickness I could go on it sounds like a bad time.
41:28.28
mikechumpchange
Are.
41:36.50
mikechumpchange
Um, oh please do just things like anchoring your ship down and then having it slightly drift and now you're out of focus. You're out of shot.
41:37.39
Clayton
No controlled you know, environment at all of.
41:41.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah. Mean getting the light right? getting the sound right? nightmare.
41:55.30
mikechumpchange
Having sailboats go by so you want to look completely alone on this ocean and dreyfus tells stories of how like Spielberg would do calculations like they would set up their shot and all of a sudden you're like oh great, there's like a sailboat because they're shooting in wide panamoor lenses.
41:57.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Vision.
42:10.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Use it.
42:14.80
mikechumpchange
And up that boat's in the frame. Okay, do we like re-anchor everything change our positions and shoot that way how much time will that take versus how much time will it take for the boat to be on a frame so they typically would wait for the boat to sail by and just cross their fingers. That another one wouldn't it was like it was like that scene in Wayne's world where they're playing street hockey and they're like yelling car and game on. It's like this slowest version of that game ever. Okay, yeah, just like you said like.
42:40.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, ah, that's hilarious now. It sounds like a nightmare.
42:48.69
Clayton
Yeah.
42:52.73
mikechumpchange
The the getting seasick like the bumpiness trying to keep and the cameras steady the weather would change on a dime like you would be out there. All of a sudden you would get massive storms. Ah it was. There's a reason why nobody shot on the and especially.
42:53.73
Ariel Powers_Schaub
We can.
43:09.44
mikechumpchange
The vineyard in the cape like those atlantic those are really choppy waters at 1 point Spielberg is like can we move production down to like the Bahamas where it is you know like the waters are a lot more tranquil at least and brown and xanek are like nope like you. We've already sunk enough money.
43:12.15
Clayton
Oh yeah.
43:14.65
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
43:29.14
mikechumpchange
Into this like we're not going to sink anymore just to move the whole picture at this point aren't going to do it. Um.
43:34.17
Clayton
I Just love all those movies that have famously horrible productions that were supposed to be massive failures and now are just absolutely iconic like everybody thought Titanic was going to fail gone with the wind should not have worked and.
43:45.43
mikechumpchange
Um, it seems like it like.
43:45.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
43:51.86
mikechumpchange
Yeah, and then there are those movies that like have a troubled history and they're a train wreck and they go on to be like awful movies. So there are an actual train wreck to yeah.
43:53.76
Clayton
They're the most recognizable movies ever.
43:53.87
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh yeah.
44:01.82
Clayton
Yeah, it's just fun when it turns out to be just wonderful.
44:08.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Mm and my God it now it's easy for me to say but seems worth it that they shot on the ocean because it looks amazing.
44:09.00
mikechumpchange
Yeah, and this did this is the rare case where it really really did.
44:17.44
mikechumpchange
Yeah, it does it does and it's how think about like a movie like the Marvel movies which is or even like I love star wars but you go and you watch the prequels and you go and you watch a lot of the.
44:21.20
Clayton
Um God I Miss on location shooting.
44:37.27
mikechumpchange
Disney Television productions and you don't have like tangible sets you have green screens and it just pulls you right out of it.
44:46.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The shots don't have weight when it's all a green screen I don't know how else to describe it I didn't go to film school but it feels like the shots don't have enough weight.
44:48.88
mikechumpchange
Who.
44:51.54
Clayton
Um.
45:00.38
mikechumpchange
Um, and it's not a good thing when your movie can take place anywhere right? like when you look at a lot of modern filmmaking. There's no character to the locations anymore. So you can kind of transpose that movie to any physical location whereas like something like this and we're gonna talk about the vineyard right now like it has such a specific look and feel to it in such a specific.
45:28.64
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Her.
45:32.65
mikechumpchange
Characterization to it that it can only take place there and it's something that the later jaws movies definitely lose and we'll talk about that in a couple weeks and we come back with jaws too. But when they move production off the vineyard to Pensacola. I think the movie. Definitely it loses something so the vineyard is where they shoot um, the locals fill a lot of the small roles and jaws like so most of the character actors you see here like outside of your main. 3 principals plus Lorraine Gary and Marie Bon almost everybody else in this movie is from the island. So like the town the town hall meeting scene. Those are actual selectimmen from edgartown in their roles. So like they were.
46:24.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Just just sense it.
46:24.57
mikechumpchange
Bad hat Harry someone looked at bad hat Harry and said I want you to represent our local governance that is what was going on. Um Gottlieb gets the dialogue for quint directly from a local fisherman I put the wrong name here in my notes. But I believe it's Craig Kingsbury ah Craig Kingsbury plays Ben Crenshaw in the movie and they just start following him around and he's just like salty foul mouthed fisherman for mantuk who would just regale the crew with basically many tales of bullshit.
46:49.61
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
47:01.74
mikechumpchange
That Robert Shaw would go on to repeat on the set and everybody would look at him like the locals would be like this guy has no idea what he's talking about. Um, upon seeing the movie with her daughter Kingsbury's wife said god bless Spielberg he's a genius. They have finally found a use for your father's empty head like that is so a lot of quint's dialogue that you hear is is kingsbury and he is the he's the fisherman that if you don't know he is. He's the one that greets hooper when he's on the deck like well hello there yourself and.
47:33.11
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's amazing.
47:41.61
mikechumpchange
He's the one that is giving that little talk on the boat like as everybody's going into the Bay and he's like swearing at all the other sailors that aren't from the area and like you can tell like not a word of that is scripted that is just him kind of running off. Um.
47:53.64
Clayton
We are.
47:55.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
47:58.53
mikechumpchange
Mrs Kitner was played by a local acting coach. Ah Lee Fiero who says like for the 30 years following the release of jaws she had slapped thousands of young men in their face like men would come up to her and be like can you please slap me and I think she. Kind of retired from doing that around like the mid 2000 s she passed away and you no well she was like a lot I mean she passed away in 2020 at the early days of covid from cop complications of it but she was like 97 when she passed away.
48:17.23
Clayton
I Never get tired of doing that.
48:34.97
mikechumpchange
I don't know how much slapping I'm going to be able to do when I'm like 75 years old
48:37.40
Clayton
Man The older I get the more I would have slapped some I don't know.
48:41.24
mikechumpchange
Right? The the mind is would that be legal who you mean you could be getting into some sticky. It's a gray area. Yeah.
48:42.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I hope she was charging I hope she was like I'll slap you if you give me $5 or something I don't see why not.
48:52.69
Clayton
The gray area of sex work. You know.
48:57.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Don't know man good for her.
49:00.40
mikechumpchange
I don't know could I say good for her as well. What a comic con pick a jaws fast experience like you go to the booth get slapped by Mrs Kitner like that would be incredible.
49:00.87
Clayton
Ah, yeah.
49:09.57
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well yet Cane hotter will choke you but you have to pay for the meat rate really will he not do it anymore.
49:12.54
Clayton
Not anymore really I literally on Twitter this morning somebody posted a a mask that he had signed and they made a comment about how he had just stopped doing it.
49:26.57
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Wild All right. There goes that dream.
49:28.88
mikechumpchange
Um, so I think is yeah as you get older you could hire Cane hotter to be in your low budgetd indie horror movie and he would choke you in that so that so we need a we need a patron level where people executive.
49:31.20
Clayton
Yeah I know.
49:38.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Could all right back on the dream.
49:39.64
Clayton
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
49:46.45
mikechumpchange
Become executive producers for an indie horror movie for us and this is where it goes getting Ario choked my cane hotter um hopeful. No, that's please. It's all right. That would be quite the cause at that point but you.
49:50.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Patrons This is where your money goes. Let's all come together for the cause sorry go go ahead.
49:58.89
Clayton
Um, worthwhile.
50:04.85
mikechumpchange
Part of the reason like the vineyard is special is it's so distinct looking there are no mcdonald's to this day on Martha's vineyard there's no starbucks there's no Cbs pharmacies. Yeah I dug up here. They actually passed an ordinance like in the late 70 s when.
50:14.29
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Really.
50:24.35
mikechumpchange
Developer wanted to put a Mcdonald's on the island and a group of the islanders formed that's called the Nom Mac committee it was about 3000 full and part-time residents that fought to keep out Mcdonald's specifically but chain stores in general because they didn't want to change. Look in the feel of the island so in a lot of ways like you can go there now and a lot of what you saw in jaws is relatively untouched. You can still see it as it was 1 thing that is taken down as quint's workshop like they built that for the movie they went through a. Ton of trouble trying to get this thing built because of local ordinances and just as they're building. It. Another guy comes up and says you don't have a permit for that but like how long will that take about six months like what if we go ahead and build it anyway, he's like well.
51:15.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No.
51:19.94
mikechumpchange
Would tell you to take it down. Well how long will it take you to get us to get legal authority to do that about six weeks done so they build it and then basically tear it down but they had to post like $100000 bond to build that set and to the degree that like the town wanted to keep it up. They're like can we actually. Looks really cool. It will be a great tourruist attraction and they were reminded by their local government like no, there's an ordinance. It says it has to come down so um, with.
51:49.24
Clayton
That's not that unusual I spent my teenage years in South Florida and where I lived in hopetown was right off of Jupiter Island which is where ah a lot of the rich just families in America have have ah homes and they have kept that community.
52:07.35
Clayton
Christine like I mean I remember when they first got a wendy's and it was like crazy because they had wanted everything to stay. You know like a small little village where they go for their vacations and yeah, like there's the closest Walmart's like 30 minutes away it's crazy
52:23.76
mikechumpchange
Yeah, they were probably pissed when that Wendy's went up right and my wife's she's from like a small coastal town in the U K and like it was a big deal when a Mcdonald's went in like a lot of the residents were pissed off about it. They're like this is going to kind of ruin.
52:27.14
Clayton
Oh yeah.
52:43.21
mikechumpchange
Some of the character of of the area like we don't want people and it has definitely caused like a traffic nightmare in that area. Um I have a brief excerpt from an article from the New York Times um dated January Fourth 1979
52:50.16
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh.
53:02.84
mikechumpchange
Martha's vineyard repulses Big Mac would any of you care to read it. It's the bottom of page 5 of the notes.
53:10.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You want to go for it. Clayton.
53:12.43
Clayton
Yeah I'll go for it I'm a finding it take it. Yes, where is this at.
53:17.10
mikechumpchange
Fascinating for our listeners as I like turn things over and unlike here we go I may post these notes bottom of page 5 and it's in italics. Oh no.
53:29.51
Clayton
A mine are not in pages I am looking at it on my phone finding director out finding a writer. Oh I found it found it found it found it. Okay, so.
53:37.50
mikechumpchange
I Will do a little bit of everything here. You go all right when you're ready.
53:46.87
Clayton
Martha's vineyard beat back. Its first big Mac attack last night but how long this island of passionate resistance to the last half of the twentieth century can hold out as anybody's guess so far the apparent immunity of the 9300 year round residents here to a sudden and overwhelming urge. For 2 all beef patties topped with a special sauce, lettuce cheese pickles and onions on a sesame seed bun has been enough to hold back. The Mcdonald's Corporation which had lost a bid to open it five thousand one hundred and tenth restaurant in what is now a health food store herb. Similar anti-modernist sentiments have in the past fought off traffic lights neonsigned billboards parking lot and parking meters highways shopping centers and jet airplanes leaving this island happily adrift somewhere in the mid 1940 s but no one here is convinced that either the big fast food chain or its competitors has been decisively pushed back from a lucrative and untapped market of Eight hundred thousand annual summer visitors at least not by anything as frail and modest as the decision by the local board of health. To deny the restaurant chain a permit for a septic tank.
55:00.36
mikechumpchange
Now and but to this day. No mcdonald's on the island they actually did pass like ah some sort of decree that says like all of these chains will be kept out I think there's a dairy queen but that was already there and if you look at like fast food and Martha's vineyard there's like not really a lot of options. It's mostly like local mom and pop places I kind of love that. Yeah ad youre kind of going there to get away from that I want fish dammit I want squid.
55:20.26
Clayton
I mean why would you want fast food and Martha's vineyarded anyway.
55:33.22
mikechumpchange
I Want clams I want like cod. That's what I want. Okay, yeah, um, you just oh yeah, you would you would definite.
55:35.49
Clayton
Yeah, my poor lcose intolerant self would be dying and just be eating claim chatter every day.
55:42.49
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Sounds like a bad plan.
55:47.26
Clayton
It's worth it. Authentic New England Glaham Chatter come on. Yes.
55:50.81
mikechumpchange
You would need that permit for the septic tank pretty quickly. Um, so while this is a really good thing in terms of like preserving the look and feel of a place. It's not necessarily great if you have a massive film crew. That's there.
55:55.58
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, oh no.
56:05.69
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And let her.
56:08.43
mikechumpchange
So while the islanders were kind of happy to have the film crew there for a short time once the once the shoote moves past the two month Mark tensions really flare number 1 you're on an island with limited parking and road space to begin with all of a sudden. All of your roads are taken up right? You have nowhere for the tourists to go all of these trucks. All these production houses. Everything is all this space that the islanders need is all the sudden taken up so they're not happy and there are stories about like the sets getting sabotaged. Props getting broken or stolen gas tanks getting sugar poured in graffiti with jaws go home sprayed on the sets. Um Robert Shaw's cottage gets blasted with a shotgun one night not because of the movie per se it was just like.
56:47.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Earth.
56:57.68
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And then.
57:03.78
mikechumpchange
1 of the locals went out and got shitfaced and just took a shot at the door and then the next day woke up, you know I was like I did what and then just kind of got like a small fine and a slap on the wrist to not do that again. Ah, shah's then wife like immediately left.
57:08.20
Clayton
Classic.
57:17.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Right.
57:22.38
mikechumpchange
Sat just like I'm going back to Broadway ah Murray Hamilton who plays the beloved mayor von got absolutely blitzed one night and while he was like stumbling back to the hotel. He saw a small dog that he wanted to pet.
57:23.35
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
57:38.69
mikechumpchange
And that dog had a nice white stripe running down its back and happened to also be a skunk the hot realizing that the skunk had sprayed him Hamilton goes back to his hotel and it's like what is that smell in this room. Sweet's like oh.
57:40.24
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh.
57:53.11
Clayton
How drunk do you have to beat not realize you got sprayed by a skunk Jesus apparently I was like I've never been that drunk before.
58:00.60
mikechumpchange
You you have to be 1970 s actor level of drunk to basically be no um, he opens all the windows he takes all these showers. He's like it still stinks in here.
58:05.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, yeah, oh my god.
58:14.64
mikechumpchange
He's like I can't sleep in this room so he stumbles down to the lobby in his underwear pulls a blanket off the couch there and just fall asleep like drunk in the lobby of this hotel until the staff like gently wake him up in the morning and are like ah this is not good for you to be here. Hungover and mostly naked on the hotel lobby couch. Um, yeah, so these are just like some of the fun stories of behind the scenes filming begins on may second the first shot is Brody.
58:35.74
Ariel Powers_Schaub
My god.
58:51.13
mikechumpchange
The deputy and Tom I'm an islander cassidy finding Chrissie's chewed up remains on the beach supposed to wrap by the end of June Spielberg is like we'll probably be about 3 or five days behind schedule by the time like we're ready to shoot on the water and we do everything on land.
58:58.46
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
59:09.26
mikechumpchange
And he's not off the mark on that. But like once they have to shoot on the water. It does not wrap up on day fifty nine it wraps up in day one ah hundred and fifty nine nearly six months later the budget. Yeah, it is a nightmare for the reasons we talked about like shooting on the water.
59:21.59
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, my god.
59:25.85
Ariel Powers_Schaub
My hair.
59:27.96
mikechumpchange
And the shark not working um the budget balloons from three and a half to nine million bucks which lead spielberg to go out of pocket for 1 scene. We'll talk about later on Robert Shaw is freaking out because his visa only allowed him to work in the Us for so many days. Before the Irs would take out huge chunks of money from his from his salary at that point and he would actually fly out of the United States to Canada after shooting some nights just so the hours wouldn't count against his. The Irs penalty although eventually it catches up to him I think universal did him a solid and like they ended up like boosting his salary or paying the irs anything above and beyond at that point. yeah yeah I mean they were all like we have other jobs we wanted to like we.
01:00:12.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay I would hope so that really stinks. And.
01:00:24.30
mikechumpchange
It's a nightmare and I think what helped was like Spielberg never lost his cool like he basically everybody looked to him this like 26 27 year old guy shooting this massive movie and everything is going awful. And Spielberg just being very honest and upfront with his crew but also like never losing his cool be like no, we're going to get it done and keeping all that inner turmoil in I think the other thing that helped was having like verda fields there kind of doing some editing as they were shooting. Because they could go back and play it back and be like okay we have an actual movie here. They didn't have to guess what they had are who wants to Todd Bruce the shark
01:01:00.84
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Here here.
01:01:10.47
Clayton
Ariel you're a c expert as we've discovered.
01:01:11.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Sure I'm horrified of the depths of the sea.
01:01:14.64
mikechumpchange
Um, okay, what what stories do we know look we just just saw this a couple weeks ago right? like let's go explore the titan a Titanic can.
01:01:20.40
Clayton
Dude, the sea is just no, we shouldn't shouldn't be there no business.
01:01:23.91
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, so.
01:01:30.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, yeah.
01:01:31.78
Clayton
What could go wrong.
01:01:32.78
mikechumpchange
I don't want to be gritly but but there are a couple things like a that dude like emails have surfaced with him going like I know you're telling me this is dangerous but you're just like telling me the human life. Whatever he's like don't get in the way of innovation. It plays like a terminal reading from the game fallout when you hear it that way. It's like what you would find from a non-playable dead character in an old terminal. Um, they found remains this week like human remains and does it make me like gruesome that I'm like I kind of want to see with that.
01:02:01.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
01:02:10.39
Clayton
Oh I Totally want to see it I figured you would just turn into soup at that depth. You know what survived that controller.
01:02:10.88
mikechumpchange
Looks like.
01:02:17.32
mikechumpchange
That's what I would think I thought you would be Chum I Literally don't know how you would have anything that would be identifiable at that point the bluetooth Controller still works. You can still play elbow with it. Wow.
01:02:29.59
Clayton
Yeah.
01:02:31.71
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Do not want to see the remains but you guys know I'm so squeamish about real stuff.
01:02:33.83
mikechumpchange
That's amazing.
01:02:38.23
mikechumpchange
Now I usually am I think because that is such a rare thing to happen that I have like a morbid curiosity unless they were billionaires they were billionaires so shouldn't have been down there all right? so.
01:02:45.59
Clayton
Yes.
01:02:45.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's really removed totally and no judgment I Just yeah yeah.
01:02:52.43
Clayton
Um, yeah, now no business. Nobody has any business being in the ocean that's earth.
01:02:58.23
mikechumpchange
Now the the stories of Bruce to Shark not working are epic and many I want to turn things over if you'd like for a minute to see if youall want to share what you all know about this damn shark not working.
01:03:01.11
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's too scary.
01:03:15.96
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well um, two things I thought ah if number one it's a great um actually to tell people the name of the shark so that we can all deploy that in our lives when people call the shark jaws we can um, actually them and tell them it's Bruce and um Mike when we were.
01:03:31.10
Clayton
Huh.
01:03:33.78
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Talking about doing this episode. You had challenged me to find a way to tie it into saw so I am going to do that right now listeners. It's been over an hour since I brought up saw so I'm doing pretty good. Normally it's within the first twenty minutes or so.
01:03:36.90
mikechumpchange
Excellent. Do it. Oh I Love it.
01:03:41.83
Clayton
Oh I'm excited.
01:03:53.43
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, so one of the things about jaws is that some of the best horror in it is like what they you see and what you don't see you know like we hardly ever see the shark turns out because it's like freaking broken all the time. And like choosing not to show us too much of Chrissy's remain so like a lot of the horror comes from your imagination but that came from mistakes like that wasn't necessarily intentional. It was like well we got to shoot this movie and we don't have a shark. What are we going to do so the way that that ties into saw.
01:04:10.93
Clayton
Um.
01:04:22.59
mikechumpchange
A.
01:04:30.34
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Is the frantic editing in saw that is so um, iconic and really set the style for that decade like a lot of the films that came after it used that really frantic editing style and it became a hallmark of the saw franchise. That happened because of you know, kind of a mistake too. They didn't have enough footage when they were editing the movie together and they didn't have time to go back and get enough footage so they tried to make a bunch of action in the editing and then that became a thing. So. The way we don't show the shark and jaws and time that into the way saw editing became Popular. Yep.
01:05:13.13
mikechumpchange
These happy accidents I Love it I Love that you can make that.
01:05:16.54
Clayton
Very happy accident. So excited for stall 10
01:05:23.12
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Dude I'm gonna it's my whole personality for the rest of the year
01:05:26.29
Clayton
Dude Fingers crossed for a return to form I've been talking to the writer a little bit see if I can talk to him when it comes out and E yeah I am going to casually drop that in there and ah sure.
01:05:31.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh yeah, you're just going to casually drop that in there. You're talking to the writer. Can you please tell him I exist. Okay, yeah.
01:05:42.20
Clayton
I Also found out he wrote Sorority row and literally mid conversation I like didn't even realize it was the same person which is horrible because I love Sorority row. How did I not realize that was the writer and it was just like by the way. Love your script for soority row. It's probably the thing and quote most in my entire life.
01:05:49.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Me too and.
01:05:59.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I love sorority row. Yeah so yeah, 2009 yeah
01:06:00.23
Clayton
So same greatest bitches in film. Yes, yes, yes.
01:06:01.39
mikechumpchange
To just the he wrote the re he wrote the remake he had to be the remake right? Okay, okay, which is a pretty solid remake especially say okay got it I will see saw 10 and my we'll see how I feel about it like I'm relatively excited. It's kind of.
01:06:24.23
Clayton
I hated spiral with a burning passion jigsaw was fine but the rest of them I mean that was appointment theater viewing ever since Saul three was the first I saw in theaters but ah after that always there.
01:06:37.17
mikechumpchange
If it's october it has to be saw right? like that's how the that's how it's like Wednesday was prince spaghetti day growing up and October was like sa season so we'll and we'll be covering that series in all of its.
01:06:39.37
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It has to be.
01:06:40.35
Clayton
Yeah.
01:06:47.15
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
01:06:53.85
mikechumpchange
Glory All of its highs. All of its lows after we finish with Jaws I will say.
01:06:59.64
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I'm training I'm getting ready.
01:06:59.73
Clayton
Um, I will say I need to I might need to come back for saw 3 because that's.
01:07:03.16
mikechumpchange
All right? Okay I'll pencil you in doing guest booking on the fly right now I wrote Clayton 3 saw 3 So it's kind of like you're playing a game.
01:07:16.85
Ariel Powers_Schaub
To the fast too furious.
01:07:20.48
mikechumpchange
Like you're playing a game of street hoggy or or right now. Um so production designer Joe Alves who would direct jaws 3 d he designed the concept of the shark and he kept going to like special effects companies.
01:07:24.16
Ariel Powers_Schaub
If.
01:07:38.75
mikechumpchange
Saying can you make this and they kept telling him. No, you're crazy so he recruited Bob Matty to come out of retirement to make the shark come to life Maddie had been like an fx guru for disney he had designed like the giant beast in. 20000 leagues under the sea most famously, he's like oh yeah, we can totally make this work There are 3 sharks one that has an open left one that is open on the right and then one that is fully encased and how they work is essentially these mini oil rigs and hydraulic machines. Are set on the ocean floor about thirty five feet below part of the reason why Martha's vineyard was chosen was it was the right depth and order for these machines it what these these rigs would allow the shark to move about seventy feet by thirty feet would allow them to like rise up to dip to go to wag its fin from side to side those structures on their own weighed more than 2 tons in the rush to get the sharks completed because again they're in preproduction in.
01:08:42.30
Clayton
Um.
01:08:54.23
mikechumpchange
February and they want this thing wrapped by June in the rush to get everything completed nobody thought hey we should test these things out in like salt water in order to give them the stamp of approval they have been tested in I think just regular old like the tanks they would use. At like Mgm Studios and such and wouldnt you know it the salt water of the Atlantic is a lot heavier. It wreaked havocs on the shark the structure that was meant to hold a mechanical shark that giant rig that I mentioned. On day one when they move it into the ocean and you have xanic and brown going. Can we come out and see it. Can we come out and see it it tips over like if somebody it it just tips over it takes like a ton of folks to like get that thing set back up and re put it in place. Um. Bruce itself the shark Bruce named after Spielberg's lawyer I believe um, it functions like one out of maybe every 3 times it needed to therefore they're losing days of shooting because of it cosmetically. The shark is also a nightmare.
01:09:53.69
Clayton
Um.
01:10:05.67
mikechumpchange
Would have to bring it back like touch up all the paint the teeth don't look right? It looks too shiy under the sun. The skin texture is all wrong, basically caring for Bruce the sharks became like a 24 7 operation between getting the rig in the water setting it down getting the shark put on getting the shark to move getting the shark out of the water touching the shark up moving the rig all of this became like a twenty four seven operation for the crew so you had people working on that around the clock. So because the shark isn't working like are you said Spielberg is like all right less is going to be more in this case so famously, you don't see a lot of the shark in jaws what you do see is some great white footage filmed by Ron and Valerie Taylor they were shark specialists that had made film the documentary blue white blue water white death and because the sharks they're filming in Australia is like a second unit team because they're only about thirteen feet compared to the twenty five foot model they decide. We'll use a little person. A standard for Richard Dreyfus so entered the picture four foot Nine Inch Carl Rezzo who impressed Spielberg because he left the scene of an automobile accident bleeding to get to his audition and Spielberg's like this guy seems pretty brave. Let's put him in the movie.
01:11:35.76
mikechumpchange
Carw wizo was not a scuba diver. He might have told them he was but he was not the first time they put Rizzo in the cage. Yeah well here's a fun thing. They give him half the oxygen at first figuring he's half size of a regular person.
01:11:41.72
Clayton
Actors.
01:11:49.17
Clayton
Um, ah, that's how that works sure.
01:11:52.44
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I can't I can't with this.
01:11:58.14
mikechumpchange
Um, but maybe I would you know that when I bought it 40 minutes ago I said people were smarter in the seventy s I'm going to retract that statement right now. So he's running out of there. He gets scared because he sees all these sharks like swimming around.
01:12:03.42
Clayton
A.
01:12:05.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh my god.
01:12:15.90
mikechumpchange
He's like fuck this noise pulls on the thing to say take him up. It gets stuck so he's running out of air. They finally get him out in time and like really in the nick of time for the next dive down. He's like I don't want to go in the cage. The cage is in the water. And they're like Carl you got to get back in the cage. He's like I would like to not do that. You're not giving me enough air to breathe and I'm a very scared little person as they're arguing a shark gets its snout caught in the cage and rips the thing to shreds like it starts thrashing about.
01:12:40.45
Clayton
Listen.
01:12:51.95
mikechumpchange
You actually see some footage of this in the final movie like when you see a shark tearing apart the cage. That's this There's like footage of the shark above the water like wailing. It's like dorsal. It's fin into the boat. It hits Rizzo at 1 point like right in the face. Um. Yeah, it fucks things up it tears that cage to shreds and then pieces out and like just floats off like nothing had happened once it's free and Rizzo is like fuck this noise I am not getting in the cage after this which we can blame them who can blame them. Okay.
01:13:23.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah, after that.
01:13:26.98
Clayton
Um, of fair point.
01:13:29.88
mikechumpchange
Back in the vineyard shooting is finally about to wrap up in the last shot. It's going to be the shark exploding the spielberg has been out there for six months he's going crazy seven months counting pre-production. Everyone's excited. They're rent in the go home. Let's blow this thing up when guess what. The shark doesn't work again. The light is fading. Spielberg has a flight. He has a ferry to catch and then a flight to Bob from Boston the next day he's very suspicious the crew when he says that's a rap they're gonna throw him in the ocean like he had gotten word. That was what they're gonna do and he was like. I don't know if they were to like bounce me off the boat first and then he was very nervous so he was like all right you get looks at Joe Allf he's like you can shoot this tomorrow I'm out of here jumps on a speedboat and pieces out gets the ferry back to Boston gets into his hotel room.
01:14:14.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
01:14:27.23
mikechumpchange
Proceeds to have like a massive panic attack like absolutely massive panic attack like can't breathe heart is pounding sweating he calls dreyfus at the bar dreyfus comes and like consoles him kind of talks him through it. Spielberg says for months he would have like nightmares about.
01:14:46.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh my goodness.
01:14:46.62
mikechumpchange
Filming this movie. He said he would see the shark like everywhere. Um on the flight home the next day dreyfus turned to Spielberg. He's like hey by the way like how did that last shot go with like the Shark Shark exploding and Spielberg just starts giggling and shrugs his shoulders. He's like I don't know man I wasn't there and and yeah, so oh yeah, yeah, and we try to do that. We try to.
01:15:06.63
Clayton
I did not know that either.
01:15:08.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I did not know that that is new information for me. Holy shit.
01:15:18.52
mikechumpchange
You know, hopefully give folks some new stuff when they yeah it is he he's talked oh and a big reason why he never did a sequel he you know will talk about it when we do jaws too but he says like what it really came down to like he couldn't see himself shooting on the water again. He's like he. Couldn't put himself through that he might have gone mad. So the film is cut. It has a preview without the music for the executives or Theago. It's okay, in Zane or brown are like for nine million bucks which back then is a ton of money for a movie this has to be better than ok.
01:15:37.32
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
01:15:57.23
mikechumpchange
Williams score gets inserted. They do a sneak preview at ah, a multiplex in Dallas and it goes gangbusters like everybody is cheering the scene where the shark pops up for the first time during the chum throwing like everybody loses their mind. Studio was like we've got a hit in her hands and spielberg goes man I got one more scare in me and he didn't like the scene of Ben Gardner's head coming out. He felt he could do better. He's like can you give me like a few grand to just reshoot this one scene. And the studio's like you're crazy like we've already spent 9000000 the picture is fine. It's opening in a couple weeks like we're not doing anything and Spielberg goes out of pocket for about 3 grand. He shoots the Ben Gardner's head floating out of the bottom of the boat scene. Ah, in his editor verna fields swimming pool in van neys like that's where that is shot. It's not dreyfus in that scene. It's someone else I believe because I think Dreyfus was oh no sorry dreyfus is not in the cage later on. It's a stunt double including 1 of the stunt doubles was Dick Warlock of Halloween to fame. So the shape was went toe to toe with jaws at one point which when you think about it. But what what is jaws but the mamma animal version of Michael Myers now all right? We're going to talk about.
01:17:18.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
There's a crossover.
01:17:24.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Very much. So.
01:17:27.36
Clayton
Aha or.
01:17:30.97
mikechumpchange
Release and the legacy of the movie but that is the sentence the making of jaws and I have talked for a very long time now and feel like I am Bo guarding the conversation. So as if well.
01:17:43.65
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Not at all I'm sitting here learning like a like a like you I.
01:17:44.77
Clayton
No I Know that's why I was like I need to be on this and I didn't I made sure to like not look at your note when I was adding my stuff because like I I wouldn't find out information I didn't know about jaws. So yeah, it's fine.
01:17:52.97
mikechumpchange
Um, um, well these and again that was like very surface level tip I would go back read. Gottlieb's book in particular is a really fun read because he's super gracious but he's also. Not shy about spilling the tea on people. Um through quick quick note like he talks about there was a lot of tension between Benchley and Spielberg because like Spielberg had made some comments that he says we're taken out of context like well if we can't make this better than the book. Then we're really in trouble here. Eventually sees that comment gives an interview to the Los Angeles Times before he flies out to shoot his scene and says Spielberg only understands movies. Not people. He's going to be remembered as the best second unit director on a picture one day and.
01:18:48.39
Clayton
It.
01:18:51.13
mikechumpchange
It's not just that he said that but he says it in the l a times which every studio head and producer in hollywood reads every Sunday morning over like their coffee and bagels flies out to the vineyard meet Spielberg. Who couldn't be more gracious. He explains his comments benchly calls the L A Times writer and is like hey I want to walk back some of those comments I'm really sorry the guy writes the article anyway and it's like I guess because Spielberg and Benchley are of the same boat. They have to work together so they don't drown like it's a matter of saving face. They make nice bench. It's like whatever you know they they make nice before the movie comes out some other comments Spielberg had made are printed and spi that are not very flattering towards benchley. And Spielberg feels horrible. He like gets an apology to benchly right away and benchley writes him this really gracious letter like forgiving Spielberg realizing. It's a misunderstanding. He's like you made a terrific picture. Um. It's a kind of thing that if Twitter was around in the 70 s it would be a massive deal for about two days it would be the only story on Twitter um, every like pop culture site would write like a million think pieces about it and.
01:20:08.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And.
01:20:11.28
Clayton
Um.
01:20:16.17
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is.
01:20:19.40
mikechumpchange
Whose side are you on? Are you standing Benchley or Spielberg. So. It's one of those things where it's become like a stuff of like I know the Spielberg saying if we don't make this movie better than the book is we're in big trouble like that's very well-known. Think a lot of the other stuff isn't like the apologies and how they made up like that stuff isn't necessarily as well-known all right? Let's talk about jobs. Let's talk about this movie and why it means so much and I'll throw out a question and then I'll sit back for a minute but as far as.
01:20:37.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Into.
01:20:54.70
mikechumpchange
Opening a movie goes like Chrissy's death scene the whole setup on the beach and then her horrific death is there anything or any picture that sets up what it's going to be better than this opening scene in jaws. How does this work for an opening.
01:21:20.69
Clayton
I Mean it's excellent I can't think of something that gets right in there. Um, maybe inglorious Bastards that's pretty good. Pretty good opening. But yeah.
01:21:27.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
01:21:35.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You know what? I might obviously no no because that doesn't tell you what it is right away I was going to say house of 1000 corpses it is and it's.
01:21:36.25
mikechumpchange
Um, if you're going to say saw here to say.
01:21:37.18
Clayton
It's horrifying.
01:21:43.70
Clayton
Now.
01:21:47.88
mikechumpchange
Very different movie.
01:21:52.68
Clayton
Um I like the comp.
01:21:54.83
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's not um, anywhere near the level of masterpiece that Chrissy's death is I mean that works perfectly right? It's scary. It's exciting. It's titillating. It's you know everything you need it to be I will say though that house of 1000 corpses does a really good job of telling you exactly what kind of movie. It's going to be in the first few minutes and was the answer that popped into my head and I always have to bring up something ridiculous on every episode I do so there you go.
01:22:17.64
mikechumpchange
I Love it. Note it works I was thinking the opening of Star Wars when you have like the little ship and then like the long crawl of that star destroyer and you're like oh oh, what is this thing but it's just like this is such a beautifully filmed.
01:22:19.80
Clayton
I Don't think that's ridiculous at all.
01:22:24.26
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
01:22:35.83
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
01:22:37.30
mikechumpchange
Opening like between the kids just hanging on the beach and it's so serene and so peaceful and you see these like 2 very beautiful people between Chrissy and Tommy like through 2 like very lovely people. Tommy being smashed out of his mind unable to get it's it's wickedly, funny. Um, Chrissy's death is so awful. So horrible and it's done. She's in a harness and you just have the crew like pulling her back and forth and down and. She is taken under there too. By the way I think I posted this one film like when you watch the Blu Rayy you're like oh this is a Pg movie and like that is how they got away with that is beyond me. It's true.
01:23:10.87
Clayton
She is very naked under there.
01:23:12.47
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And she's.
01:23:20.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well, they didn't have four K at the time so they probably.
01:23:25.83
Clayton
I will say I just I saw this in theaters a couple years ago and it's it's there not necessarily as clear as the four k I watched it on for for the pod. But yeah, there's ah there is a vagina in your face.
01:23:30.66
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, um.
01:23:41.71
mikechumpchange
Yeah, but it's scary as shit, not the vagina if they getting pulled apart by sorry that part isn't scary um getting that took a bad turn there. Ah.
01:23:50.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Stick a turn.
01:23:52.16
Clayton
Ah.
01:23:55.41
mikechumpchange
Her like the thrashing about and the water going in out of her mouth and at one point she just yells it hurts like that is what gets me. Hmm.
01:24:00.89
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, oh God every time and it's no, you go.
01:24:07.79
Clayton
It's up there with out. Go ahead like I get really upset in movies when someone's ah being killed or tortured and they start and they're an adult and start like crying for their mom or something that always is just like oh yeah, Chrissy's death is just.
01:24:19.14
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
01:24:26.80
Clayton
The way she's just being pulled through the water and sharks aren't something I'm particularly frightened about at 1 incident living in Florida that kind of freaked out a little bit but I got in the water like 30 minutes later um
01:24:35.80
mikechumpchange
Whoa. Do tell do tell.
01:24:39.60
Clayton
I cannot say with a hundred percent certainty that it was a shark but I was out swimming with my friends and sharks were around a lot but there weren't really incidents and something grazed my back that did not feel like you know the typical stuff you would feel in the ocean you know it didn't feel like a fish or seaweed or anything it had that.
01:24:52.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yes.
01:24:58.35
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No.
01:24:58.79
Clayton
Shark skin texture and it was really cloudy water that day so I couldn't see anything but I mean I noted right out of the water for about 30 minutes and then got back in but I would swear hand on a bible. It was a shark I just I didn't see it so I can't.
01:25:11.44
mikechumpchange
How how did you convince yourself to go back in only a half hour later.
01:25:17.10
Clayton
There just weren't really shark attacks I like I you would not convince me. You would not gun to my head I would say shoot me before I would ever get in freshwater in Florida because an alligator death is just not something I want to experience but sharks and just I don't know it's one of those things when you live there, you just don't.
01:25:25.10
mikechumpchange
Who.
01:25:36.37
Clayton
Worry about it. Um, but yeah Chrissy and again, that's in the book just the way it was describing it and her just like reaching down and her legs just gone and just the it's just horrifying I hate it and her holding onto the buoie and it's horrifying.
01:25:36.43
mikechumpchange
Um, interesting.
01:25:51.81
mikechumpchange
Um, group.
01:25:53.96
Clayton
Like I'm 34 and I watch a lot of ah I laughed my head off in theaters watching terr fire too. But Jaws Chrissy's death is just rough. It's really rough. No.
01:26:02.35
mikechumpchange
Cow.
01:26:05.65
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's really relatable like um I mean not being eaten by a shark but I really don't like having my head underwater and um I have a big family and lived on lakes all the time and ah like my cousins would. Dunk you under the water like they would dunk each other and I was always like not go and swiming with you guys because you're gonna dunk me and I don't like that and so like when her head keeps getting pulled under I Get really really really anxious because I'm like I hate that feeling of water in your nose and obviously she's got bigger problems at the moment but it adds. That you know because I know how that feels that scene is that much scarier.
01:26:46.80
mikechumpchange
Yeah, that just like screaming and then having all that salt water go into your mouth and like I think part of the reason this scene works so well is because you don't see anything Clayton like you mentioned like in the book how it describes like reaching down and feeling.
01:27:01.16
Clayton
Ah.
01:27:06.45
mikechumpchange
Stump where your leg used to be and because you don't have any bit of gore or any bit of blood. Everything is just suggested like this whipped frenzy of her moving around is just letting your imagination do all of the hard work for you especially because in the moments before the attack. Chrissy was so graceful like I think one of the things like rewatching this movie the shot that I really love is when she kind of does like a figure 4 with her legs and then slowly like sinks under the water like very slowly and gracefully like this is a person who.
01:27:39.40
Clayton
Um.
01:27:42.47
mikechumpchange
Could tell was like used to being in the water. It was like very athletic and young and had so much ahead of her and you would cut between her screaming and Tom just passed out on the beach completely oblivious to everything that is going on around him.
01:27:59.10
Clayton
Yeah, and I mean she doesn't just die immediately. She has time to be terrified and it's just it's rough I Really unlock something primal. It's just so really, really primal feel fear in that scene and I mean.
01:28:06.23
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And she makes it to the buoy.
01:28:08.90
mikechumpchange
Who who.
01:28:18.48
Clayton
She is graceful, not just for what she does in the water have you ever tried to disrobe by. You're running down a beach I have not tried it because I mean I'm just a klut anyway. So I just that wouldn't work out well. But.
01:28:22.72
mikechumpchange
No I cannot say that I have.
01:28:33.15
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's a really good point that I never thought about running on Sand is hard enough now.
01:28:35.19
Clayton
Yeah, running on Sand is very hard and they're drunk. They've been smoking some weed and just at a dead run stripping in the dark.
01:28:35.70
mikechumpchange
Um, it's walking on Sand is hard. Yeah, off.
01:28:43.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The.
01:28:48.44
mikechumpchange
Yep, all of that and chrissy is gone. Um, we get a little bit about the town of Amityville and this is where I think one of the real beautiful things about this movie is how. Lived in this town feels how everybody even though there's not a lot of in-depth moments. There's enough individual moments that make up this composite I've joked before that there's like an alternative cut of this movie that while the shark attacks are going on that because most people. Can avoid the shark. The real terror is this group of karate school students that are 9 years old and they're like breaking everything apart like you could have like the jaws music and then you just see like hands come out in karate chop mailboxes off their post like they're the real villains.
01:29:26.84
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah, they're karateing the fancies.
01:29:29.34
Clayton
The karateing the fence.
01:29:43.10
mikechumpchange
1 point I think you even see like 1 of the shopkeepers like doing karate chop motions. Ah the locals are as like old school new england as it gets like they feel like when you think about old new england these are the people that you think about and.
01:30:01.95
Clayton
Um.
01:30:02.34
mikechumpchange
Like 1 of the behind the scenes things like Joe Alves who was a production designer when he was on the island like location scouting he would say everybody would seem super nice I would talk to 1 person. They would seem the great like the greatest guy in the world and then the next person I would say talk to would say you talk to who. That person's a fucking asshole like you don't want to talk to them at all like here's like all the horrible things they've done like fuck that guy and then he'd be like wow. That's really weird. He would tell the next person like just had this really weird interaction I told so and so I talked about this person. And he's like oh those 2 like they both suck like the third person would like tell all the gory details like so it kind of like basically like their parents their parents parents like everybody is worse than them type of deal. It was awesome. Um. You get like that walk through the town with like there's a I don't know if it's a parade or is it a trial run for the parade like what's going on here.
01:31:04.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, who has a pre fourth of July parade. Maybe it was practice.
01:31:09.96
mikechumpchange
It must have been I think it was a pre fourth but did you get the impression that like Brody is getting pulled in a million different directions.
01:31:11.34
Clayton
I Don't know I wondered that myself. Um.
01:31:20.89
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh yeah.
01:31:23.48
Clayton
Yeah, it's very stressful and on the note I mean that you were talking about of how authentic it feels I mean it seeps through the screen and probably because they were mainly locals. Ah, but ah comes through and ah these aren't actors way and.
01:31:27.67
mikechumpchange
Um.
01:31:31.97
mikechumpchange
Who.
01:31:32.18
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And then.
01:31:40.42
Clayton
Distracting It just is a really good sense of space and it really pulls you in and it's like oh this is a real place. These are real people and it really sucks you into the drama of the story even in the Minutiae of everything before.
01:31:50.25
mikechumpchange
So.
01:31:57.66
Clayton
They get pulled into all the Shark drama.
01:31:59.41
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I never thought of this until I watched Jaws again for this discussion. But I I'm thinking of jaws as a folk whore like jaws does a lot of things right? It's we made the comparison to the shape. It's certainly a quatic core political horror but I was like oh it maybe is also folk horror too because it's got this focus on the environment and people coming from outside who don't belong there you know quote unquote. Um. You're not from around here type energy and that's when the problems start and the shark is just trying to eat and a lot of times in folk corere is like the people who are the villains are like they're just trying to do their thing and you got in their way and so I was like oh maybe jaws is folkhore.
01:32:52.66
mikechumpchange
I love that you said that because I made a note for later that I thought of like the wicker man in Summer's aisle a little bit when they're so adamant about keeping the beaches open.
01:32:53.23
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Don't know.
01:33:01.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
01:33:09.69
mikechumpchange
Because you have like look if we don't keep the beaches open our economy could be wrecked and how are we going to survive September through the end of June the next year like we won't be able to do it very much and in this movie that.
01:33:10.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
01:33:25.45
mikechumpchange
Town They're seen as like villainists for that like Mayor von is seen as a villain for wanting to do that whereas in the wicker man because like captain I can't think of the guy's name now I would say captain howdy but I know that's not it. Um, because like.
01:33:30.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, okay.
01:33:41.95
Clayton
We'll go with that. It's fine.
01:33:43.13
mikechumpchange
But because like the police captain is so I think it might be Neil because he is so staunch in his like conservative religious views by the end of the movie. You're like teen Christopher Lee like yeah burn this asshole alive. Do it.
01:33:56.26
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Usually.
01:33:58.76
mikechumpchange
Because it'll bring the the island of summers aisle back. So you're kind of on their side whereas in jaws this not quite that extreme like they're not literally tying Alex Kitner up on a pike and throwing him in the ocean while ringing a dinner bell but it's kind of the same idea like what? um.
01:34:16.47
Ariel Powers_Schaub
She said you.
01:34:16.83
Clayton
I'd watch that movie though.
01:34:18.74
mikechumpchange
Totally we watch that totally like we I was watching Jaws too and like kind of joking at the end of it because like they have like they're all trapped on boats like grab the little kid and just throw him in the water and make a swim for it like that would totally be my play. You know like here hold this and push them in.
01:34:35.95
Clayton
Um, a close get.
01:34:38.69
mikechumpchange
Um, you know they're not doing anything as dramatic as that but they're kind of like what are a couple deaths if it means that you know we're going to be able to keep the town alive for another season right? and we'll definitely get into that we pick up. Yeah.
01:34:49.71
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Mention.
01:34:51.35
Clayton
Even if the hotel's down one night catastrophe
01:34:58.40
mikechumpchange
We'll talk a little more about that when we talk about mayor Vaughn in a little bit more detail here in a little bit but we get the scene on the beach with everybody's a chilling. It's a nice june day. Fun fact when they're shooting this movie. It's freezing in the water like 1 thing about Cape Cod beaches
01:35:13.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
01:35:18.18
mikechumpchange
Is they really don't get warm until the fourth of July and they are shooting these scenes in May and June so that water is like freezing cold. So the extras out there. Um, but you get again this real sense that Brody is an outsider.
01:35:24.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Mention.
01:35:37.60
mikechumpchange
That doesn't belong. You have that one businessman like trying to tell him his business going look. It's a simple thing just do this and you get bad hat Harry who's like we know all about you chief um I just really love this us against you.
01:35:43.75
Ariel Powers_Schaub
My home.
01:35:53.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Sure.
01:35:55.20
mikechumpchange
Mentality that the town seems to have with Brody.
01:36:00.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It reminded me a little bit. Um, so I'm originally from Michigan and Michigan has 2 peninsulas an upper peninsula and a lower peninsula and they're connected by a really long bridge.
01:36:04.72
mikechumpchange
A.
01:36:14.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And the upper peninsula everybody calls it the UP and so people from the upper peninsula are called youupers and it's a thing like you can't become a eupper one does not simply and you know ah Ellen's friend says to her. You don't become an island or you're not born here.
01:36:19.16
mikechumpchange
Um, who.
01:36:33.75
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You know on an islander and that is kind of the vibe of being a youber I did have some I I went to college in the up P which is why I was thinking to this um and somebody ah a youper told me that if I did four winters I could call myself a trooper So I'm.
01:36:51.20
mikechumpchange
Wow.
01:36:53.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And can never be a youper but I can be a trooper and so it just reminded me of like places that have a really proud identity and what it means to be from there and when you start to push against that and you test that. It if it falls apart quickly. That's like threatening to some part of your identity.
01:37:09.78
mikechumpchange
Oh absolutely That's what they cling on to this idea that like we're special where I mean we saw this in real life like they don't want a Mcdonald's on the island because it would change the it would change the makeup of the island it would it would. Let's face it. It would attract a different kind of person to the the kind of person that goes to Mcdonald's for dinner, we don't want fair kind here on the island they can take the ferry back to the mainland if they want their big macs what makes the Mcdonald's.
01:37:38.55
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, but have they tried the diet coke because it's really good. They have a contract with Coca-cola that they can use a different ratio of syrup to soda.
01:37:46.35
mikechumpchange
Sodas in general So much better.
01:37:52.60
mikechumpchange
Okay.
01:37:54.46
Ariel Powers_Schaub
So um, you get a little bit more it hits you a little bit more with the flavor. Yeah.
01:37:58.21
mikechumpchange
Okay, got it. Okay.
01:38:03.11
Clayton
I worked at Mcdonald's Back in the day and I didn't know that yeah that is a fun fact I'm going to drop that ah drop that at parties.
01:38:04.38
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Fun fact.
01:38:05.17
mikechumpchange
Excellent. We're drop in some real knowledge on this episode. Excellent. So we get the death of Kittener which is one of the again that famous.
01:38:17.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
01:38:21.30
mikechumpchange
Probably the shot that jaws might be best known for that vertigo effect where you push in and pull out the same time hitchcock famously used it in Vertigo in this case, you use it to. Really kind of highlight like how how chief Brody like knows he stepped in it in some ways like oh god like I was wrong to let this go I was wrong to let the town open the beaches up. Um and you get a.
01:38:42.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The her.
01:38:54.24
mikechumpchange
Glimpse of the Shark's tail I Believe in this right? which again, it's so great. It's a blank and you missed it. You don't quite know what's happened until you see that like gush of blood come up. You have a lot of blood and I get.
01:39:06.84
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, there's a lot of blood.
01:39:07.57
Clayton
There is a lot of blood and for a very small person.
01:39:12.67
mikechumpchange
Yeah, kit her had on lotudably yeah I I don't know if like there was pipp it in there to maybe pip it. The dog was yeah we got a.
01:39:20.52
Clayton
Ah, poor pippin.
01:39:21.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
All the dogs in this movie I'm like you need to put a life jacket on that dog. You need to have a little harness on them.
01:39:26.23
mikechumpchange
Are.
01:39:31.58
Clayton
I am so nervous for the meg to that poor little dog. Ah.
01:39:34.73
mikechumpchange
So it is again just great use of suggestion where it's not extremely graphic or gory but like is that it's a lot of blood in a little person and that chaos of getting.
01:39:39.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Please says.
01:39:51.90
mikechumpchange
Everybody out of the water and then Mrs Kitner's reaction to realizing like hers is the only person that hasn't come out and her look of like dawning horrors that is going on is fantastic.
01:40:04.71
Clayton
Also Alex's death is so it's very quick as you said, but it's very violent. It's it's just a flash but it's horrifying absolutely horrifying I mean I famously love it when they kill children in horror movies. But it's still just think what a way to go.
01:40:10.28
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is.
01:40:15.89
mikechumpchange
Um, and I think um.
01:40:21.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, 50
01:40:24.47
Clayton
Awful.
01:40:25.54
mikechumpchange
Someone one of our listers I think it's at cdog um posted and copy. He added us on one of his letterbox list right now. It's like guess what this list is and it was all like.
01:40:40.20
Clayton
Oh my god.
01:40:40.25
mikechumpchange
Kids who die in horror movies which great list or like that I'm like part of me is like thank you for sharing this with me but also like what kind of person. Do you think I am um.
01:40:42.82
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, good list. Strong list.
01:40:52.90
Clayton
Mike I know we greatly disagree on a Halloween end how we feel about that. But the 1 thing I do love that that movie does is eating that kid right over the balcony at the beginning over the staircase into the floor I'm like flawless no notes.
01:40:53.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Like.
01:41:02.85
mikechumpchange
Oh you, you will get no argument for me about that kid getting yeed over the the side of the thing that is awesome. The first ten fifteen minutes of Halloween ends are perfect I mean I won't.
01:41:18.53
Clayton
Yeah, yeah, that's so what I love about the movie.
01:41:21.36
mikechumpchange
I don't love that movie. But yeah I think that that should have started. This is a show for another day that should have started the David Gordon Green trilogy like introduce Corey at the start of 2018 do exactly that.
01:41:27.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Finish.
01:41:33.85
Clayton
Yeah, yeah.
01:41:38.44
mikechumpchange
You know this looming specter of Michael Myers forty years later and then Corey is like a background character for the first 2 movies and then focus on him in hallow wing ends.
01:41:47.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Or don't because he sucks and we don't need him.
01:41:47.40
Clayton
Yeah, it's kind of hot. But yeah I I gave it a second chance very recently to I was like okay I've seen it I hate it it. The first time I'll watch it again now that I know what the movie is and.
01:41:58.63
mikechumpchange
Well.
01:42:05.78
Clayton
See if I can appreciate it more watch it with an open mind and I was I did it and I will not get that time back and I don't intend on ever visiting it unless I absolutely have to for a podcast or something that I can't get out of.
01:42:17.48
mikechumpchange
Wait on ends. Yeah, we're on the same page I don't really like Halloween ends. No, you're thinking of halloweenies. They loved Halloween ends. It's an area that we I don't know I don't know.
01:42:23.47
Clayton
Oh I thought I could have sworn I had seen you like maybe it was something else.
01:42:30.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Her How how okay listen I don't want to insult anybody. But of course.
01:42:37.34
mikechumpchange
Love halloweenies I think I love that groove. So um, but I just disagree with them on that movie so moving on. Um, what was it. Oh and Brothman who's on that show hurt me deeply. Um, their latest episode when you said that slasher movie valentine is terrible like that feels like that hurt me deeply I fucking love valentine now. Yeah, we we sport the prince. Yeah I think yeah.
01:42:53.53
Clayton
I love valentine. Yeah I covered that in for in February this year and it was delightful talked about it with Jessica Scott
01:42:56.23
Ariel Powers_Schaub
We write at dawn. No one gets to say that.
01:43:11.54
mikechumpchange
I think the halloweeni crew would whip our asses like Gerber is like 6 2 like you know in host host versus host like Gerber's probably taken me out pretty quickly.
01:43:14.11
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay, but I but.
01:43:17.59
Clayton
Um, I'm scrappy I'm scrappy and I have really bad depression. So I like I have no fear of death. So.
01:43:26.98
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You don't see me coming I have the element of surprise and I have a low center of gravity. So I'll get you with the knees. So Mike if you need I'm just saying.
01:43:33.23
Clayton
Nice, yeah.
01:43:35.60
mikechumpchange
Um, okay, it's about equal in terms of the amount of people on the crew I'm genuinely curious if we had like a 12 man 10 man tag like survivor style rules.
01:43:52.51
mikechumpchange
Survival Series style rules halloweenies versus the pod and the pendulum.
01:43:56.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I mean is it no holds barred. Can we use weapons like is it falls count anywhere like we have to settle all this and Halloween is this is us officially calling you out.
01:44:03.33
mikechumpchange
I I feel like we could distract the referees long enough to bring some what they call international objects into the picture at this point. Yeah.
01:44:08.75
Clayton
Um.
01:44:14.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Do we need? We need disenfranchised to referee right? because they're kind of neutral in that space and they're all right I feel like Rachel would want to fight.
01:44:22.41
mikechumpchange
But Rachel is part of both crews now like Rachel's now congratss to Rachel yeah who though I feel like I'm here.
01:44:24.00
Clayton
Yeah, Rachel maybe Rachel would have to ref.
01:44:31.38
Clayton
I could see that I feel like Rachel I have not spoken to Rachel about valentine specifically. But I feel like she's a fan.
01:44:40.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh.
01:44:41.11
mikechumpchange
I feel like I'm super nice to Rachel and wouldn't give her any reason to want to hurt me I'll have to ask her when we do jaws too like in a couple weeks because she's part of that episode. Um Kuyper is a bodybuilder so kuyper. If he has some flexibility could probably kick some ass I do too but I still look like I do um so.
01:44:56.79
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Go to the gym. So.
01:45:01.98
Clayton
Oh man I don't.
01:45:04.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I I forgot that this was about a fight about the movie valentine I had fully erased that from my head and thought we were just doing a a brawl I was just like Okay, yeah, if we got a fight I get yes no touching of the hair or the face.
01:45:10.30
mikechumpchange
Yeah.
01:45:10.50
Clayton
Oh I did it. That's at the forefront.
01:45:17.28
mikechumpchange
It's like that scene in Anchor man where you know? yeah no touching of the throat. So all right.
01:45:22.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
In a podcasting fight. We have to leave each other's vocal cords alone. So no throat chats.
01:45:24.18
Clayton
Yeah, yeah, but we can you know in the spirit of valentine take hot wax and throw it at the Halloween e's yeah wax this niches.
01:45:32.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, and cut.
01:45:33.77
mikechumpchange
Okay, very good. All right all right moving along I guess I'm sorry um, we get the let's talk about the scene where miss everyone's talking about Mrs Kitner
01:45:40.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, the same.
01:45:49.10
mikechumpchange
Putting up 3 grand for the capture of the shark and I think this is a good place to kind of talk about let me scroll down here. Oh no, where is it. Let's go back up reexamining jaws after 2020 like looking at this movie through the lens of like covid denialism and lockdowns and this real debate of doing what's best in the interest of public safety versus like doing what's best for the interest of like commerce and the economy because. You just Google Jaws movie in covid and there are literally hundreds of think pieces that came out in 2020 because this movie did have like a real and matter. Of fact, it got rereleased into drive-ins during the summer of 2020 and it was like the number one movie in the country.
01:46:38.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The her.
01:46:44.50
mikechumpchange
That week not that it made like a bazillion dollars because what was open but it got re-released and people went to go see it again. Um there's a real examination to be had here. What's in the interests of public safety. Versus like are we going to actually kill our economy and our ability to live into function if we do everything possible to keep people safe so I'll ask mayor von played by the lovely Murray Hamilton where do we stand on him and I'm going to take a step back for a minute but what are your thoughts on the mayor here is he the villain of jaws as he misunderstood.
01:47:31.10
mikechumpchange
What do we think of his he's got us and he's guy I will say this before you answer you have to factor in his very strong sports code game into the mix.
01:47:31.54
Clayton
A l you go first on this, we get to discuss this ah twice in a week a l covered and covered and water horror.
01:47:36.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, yes, ah.
01:47:46.46
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh that can't be touched can't question that um I don't think he's the villain sport coder. No um I actually like ok.
01:47:48.52
mikechumpchange
So Anchor coats. Oh my goodness.
01:48:01.63
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I don't envy his position at all and I I don't know if it is an easy answer. Maybe it is but like I've never had to be the mayor of a town that relies on summer money. So it's hard to say like if. They close the beaches and there is no shark. That's really screwed over the residence of that town. Um, he should listen to the fact that there is a shark and then I don't know what the math is you know I don't know where the intersection of. How long can we close the beaches for public safety versus not making it through the winter and that's where I think like as it relates to covid. Um, it would be nice if like there could be some assistance to like float the economy while we keep public the public safe um I think that's something that could have been done more during covid and I think you know had that been an option in Jaws maybe jaws wouldn't be a movie at all because they would have just been ok um, it's. Obviously as a viewer we're supposed to go oh he should have shut down the beaches and like yes, maybe that's true I'm not saying it's not true I just I don't envy his position and I don't I wouldn't want to be the one have to make that decision.
01:49:26.81
Clayton
Agree completely on every all of that that would be a horrible situation to be in. You know you're answering to all of your constituents and trying to look out for your town and everything and again watching the movie. At this point you know post jaws when it came out because I was not alive when this came out. Um, it's very easy to look at the mayor and be like boo. He's bad obviously he should shut the beaches but and we'll touch upon this later sharks and great whites and stuff. Ah there. Habits and everything we're not known at that time really like they are now you know we didn't have Shark week every year and so they wouldn't have necessarily known that oh sharks if they you know, get a taste for something they'll stay in the area. It's a feeding ground they'll stay and. So you wouldn't think like oh they just came here and a and are going to leave. They'll just move on and so they went without that knowledge. It would be a really hard decision to make and yeah it would just it would be it would suck to be in that situation and again with covered.
01:50:37.12
mikechumpchange
You.
01:50:41.75
Clayton
Now we have more knowledge about it. But when it happened nobody knew anything and how could you make these decisions and try to get people online because either either side of that thing as we saw was a huge mess. There was a lot of mud slinging and. People really showed their ass and we got to find out how people really react in these situations and a lot of movie situations that are similar don't seem as ridiculous anymore as I would have thought previously.
01:51:12.78
mikechumpchange
Right? right? I mean there are to your point there are articles that say like who could have predicted this movie from you know forty five years ago predicted how people are going to react during like a crisis like covid it predicted exactly what you would see. From people to your point a real like it is really hard thinking about the position. The mayor is in like what sort of um, whose interest that he has to best serve and a couple things that really stand out during. This movie like there's 1 scene before the town hall where it's just a shopkeeper and his retail agent and he's like you didn't give me anything on my list like don't tell me it's coming in August I need this stuff by the end of June. There's not 1 single thing here on this list for the summer people and when. Vaughn tries to assuage the crowd of people of the town hall that hey it's okay, we're only going to close the beaches for one day even though Brody's like I didn't agree to that. There's a voice that yells out one day is like three weeks in the summer and I just remember working retail and being on commission. There were times of year like that November through early January stretch during the holiday season where I would make one third to 40% of my yearly income in that like 6 or seven week stretch
01:52:45.23
mikechumpchange
And you'd have to like put some money away and like save to kind of get you through the lean months at that point in feeling that really deeply like I'm going to make all the money I make this year I have to squirrel away and if I lose one day of that I could be screwed come wintertime. And I felt that like the position he's in pretty deeply at that point but at the same time where von stumbles is that he not only refuses to listen like once the experts come in and say hey here's what we need to do. But he actively tries to cover up like it's be 1 thing if he gave the public the crucial information and then allowed them to make the decision or inform the decision but like hooper says like this is clearly not a boating accident. When he sees chrisa you know this is not a boating accident and yet you led the public to think this was and now there are more people that are dead like a little boy is dead because of it Ben Crenshaw is dead because of it. Um I will say. Jaws all takes place over the course of about one week maybe a couple days longer so he does react relatively fast at the end of the day it takes the the death of the boater. The guy in the pond to get.
01:54:17.81
mikechumpchange
Him to sign the waiver to hire quint. So really like 2 more 2 people die that shouldn't have died if he'd signed that waiver the boater and Ben Crenshaw that's not terrible I guess you know was it look it to. Tens of people to die before he did the right thing.
01:54:37.85
Clayton
Yeah, and I mean even now if somebody dies from you know a Shark attack. They're not instinctively going to be like well we have to clean on the close down beaches in Perpetuity. Maybe for the afternoon or something but not even a whole day because it typically. They're not going to be like oh this is a feeding ground I'm going to get territorial and do my thing. It would just be a kind of a one off accident.
01:54:59.81
mikechumpchange
Right right? There were also probably middle grounds that people could take like we've gone to the cape and they have shark watchers out and they will post signs like hey careful like they are like we are on the lookout for sharks in the area. We've been called out of the water when like seals have been spotted like all right? You gotta to get out of the water until because like a seal will absolutely fuck you up in making no bones about it like they look big round and cuddly but like they ain't messing. Yeah, So um.
01:55:26.30
Clayton
Her.
01:55:34.10
Clayton
Raccoons of the ocean.
01:55:38.91
mikechumpchange
There's like that middle ground where you could have like spotters that are out there. You let people play in like the shallows and then you know handle it as you need to handle so they definitely there were things you could have done in between nobody can step foot on the sand in case, the Shark grows legs and comes out in in.
01:55:58.50
Clayton
Never.
01:55:58.27
mikechumpchange
Becomes a sand shark and doing nothing now there are people like a disgraced british politician Boris Johnson who just resigned from parliament in again in disgrace his long called mayor von a hero. And the real hero of jaws and I'm not talking like saying this and it is yeah yeah, and Boris Johnson is a deeply unserious man and a disgrace so it is just like.
01:56:20.35
Clayton
Yeah I won't say go out and call him a villain but a Heroes a little little fire.
01:56:20.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's a stretch.
01:56:35.23
mikechumpchange
But this is not just saying it in 2020 when it would have been topical here is a quote from a 2006 speech when he was running for mayor of London in a speech Mr Vaughn says sorry in a speech. Mr Johnson said Mr. Vaughn was the real hero of jaws. A gigantic fish is eating all your constituents and he decides to keep the beaches open okay in that instance, he was actually wrong. But in principle we need more politicians like the mayor we are often. The only obstacle. Against all the nonsense which is really a massive conspiracy against the taxpayer. So again, this is a guy who in 2006 fourteen years before covid is saying the guy who doesn't have any interest in public safety. Because it's all really a bunch of nonsense. Um, let them die on their own. Let the bodies pile high. This is the guy that is the real hero of the movie that is scary that somebody would hate that point of view right.
01:57:45.71
Clayton
Little bit little bit.
01:57:47.85
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, that just seems like something you say to like get attention.
01:57:47.86
mikechumpchange
Down.
01:57:52.28
Clayton
Know maybe him and Desantis like have a great have a group chat. Maybe yeah.
01:57:52.32
mikechumpchange
And I think that's forced Johnson A nutshell oh.
01:57:59.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Probably yeah I think you know it's a really good point. You made Mike about um if he had given people the information to make an informed decision and make their own choice. That could have been a good middle ground I do think one of the things we saw during covid was that it's hard to manage a public emergency by asking individuals to make you know to be in charge of making changes like.
01:58:28.15
mikechumpchange
But.
01:58:28.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Sometimes change has to be it has to come from the top. So I don't know where that middle ground is in jaws.
01:58:35.19
mikechumpchange
Down and if you're someone who lives on Amity. You can just say well I don't have to go in the ocean myself I just need other people to go in like as long as I don't go in the sharks not going to get me. And other people can take that risk if they want Why would I want to remove the option to do so.
01:58:55.42
Clayton
Yeah, as we saw during Covid Um, people were very callous about things until it happened to them or their family and then they changed their tune very quickly about things. Yes, but.
01:59:01.25
mikechumpchange
Yeah, absolutely sometimes they even didn't even do it then? yeah.
01:59:12.76
Clayton
So and jaws you know I feel like even Mrs Kitner would have been like a really blasy about it if she hadn't had her darling little boy, get eaten in five feet of water on the beach.
01:59:19.96
mikechumpchange
But I know. Yeah, so we get our introduction to quint with this great nails on the chalkboard and the little chalk drawing of the shark in the. You know I'll catch him for 3 but kill him for 10 um, here's what do we think of quint and what do we think of and Robert Shaw again not the first choice to play quint. They originally wanted Lee Marvin in the role and Lee Marvin turned it down said he would rather actually just go fishing and then they really wanted Sterling Hayden from Stanley Kubricks to killing that's right, best know him from they were really disappointed. They didn't get Hayden. To this day like Gottlieb has said like man imagine what this film could have been have been if we got sterling for this role which to me it's shocking because ra and we'll talk a little bit about Shaw and Scheider and and dreyfus and the run they went on in the 70 S. Shah to me embodies quint in such a perfect way. Hayden had to turn down the role because he was in d the irs wouldn't let him do it. Basically he owed a lot of money which to me is weird like we won't let you work so you can pay us back. But.
02:00:42.42
mikechumpchange
For whatever reasons like tax dodging is what kept Hayden out of out of filming jaws. But what do we think of this introduction to quint in his character as a whole as we first see him.
02:00:57.00
Clayton
Quint is just he's a piece of work I can't even imagine anybody else playing him I'm still I can't believe they said that I've just been like Wow after after seeing the movie they're still like man what it could have been.
02:01:02.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, well, that's the thing.
02:01:10.41
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Can't imagine and I don't have a very good imagination but like I can't imagine anybody else playing quint I think he's perfect. He's my favorite part of the film.
02:01:19.68
Clayton
I Know like I want to punch him in the face because he's just so irritating but he's perfect. Absolutely perfect.
02:01:21.98
mikechumpchange
Um.
02:01:25.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Want to buy him a beer and have him tell me a story. That's what I want I would ride or die for quint.
02:01:32.37
mikechumpchange
I was thinking like if you recast jaws today. It would be like Timothy chamlet with shalama would be hooper Chris Chris Hemsworth would be Brody and like that's where they would cast and then.
02:01:41.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, okay.
02:01:50.85
mikechumpchange
Maybe Mark Ruffalo if you wanted like a little bit rugged and then you would get like Josh Brolin to be like quint like just it would be awful Josh Brolin no country for old men. The old boy remake. Yeah so.
02:01:58.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I have to Google that because I that's not ringing a bell. Yeah, oh okay, yes, yes.
02:02:10.54
mikechumpchange
It would be so terrible. It would be so terrible. But I we we we we'd cover it.
02:02:12.60
Clayton
Yeah I land watch I mean I watch anything Timothy Charlama does but that's a ah, a weird. Yeah, this is when I usually I'm honestly I'm fine with remakes because it doesn't take the original movie away but jaws is not a movie that I would ever.
02:02:14.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I'd watch it though.
02:02:27.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And and.
02:02:30.90
mikechumpchange
Now.
02:02:31.10
Clayton
Want to see remade ever ever ever ever ever.
02:02:31.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Only if they shoot on the ocean and have a janky ass Broken Shark will I watch a remake of this movie. Don't give me no cgi. Yeah I'll go see the meg if I you know I assume the mega cgi I Actually don't know. Okay.
02:02:36.52
Clayton
Yeah, you know it would be a God awful cgi monstrosity.
02:02:40.81
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah.
02:02:48.35
mikechumpchange
It's the ad is.
02:02:49.00
Clayton
I Yeah I mean I will I I'm a sucker for bad Shark movies. Um I even watched ice ice sharks which is awful. Absolutely awful. But they're just fun. So you know I'd watch it.
02:02:50.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well there you go.
02:02:58.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You know Sharknado's a franchise mike.
02:02:59.68
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah I mean you I I was thinking? yeah.
02:03:07.30
Clayton
I ah bet I is a franchise Mike I watched all of those once just for the hell of it and they were mildly more entertaining than I expected to be.
02:03:15.17
mikechumpchange
I was thinking of because I've never watched a sharknado movie I was thinking of why don't we do a commentary for Patreon and we do a first time watch and just do a blind watch of it. We'll see our patrons might disagree they might but.
02:03:15.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Me either.
02:03:23.79
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, that would be hilarious. Yeah.
02:03:30.96
mikechumpchange
Ah, but it's on shutter right now. So we maybe we have to do that this month in July um, they'll they'll give us nothing know whenever like shutter would send out those care packages like yeah I would see I know I would be like my care package is 4000 pr emails about like a movie.
02:03:36.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Shutter pay us for the plug.
02:03:41.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I feel so left out.
02:03:43.10
Clayton
The same.
02:03:50.49
mikechumpchange
They want me to watch like that is the care package I get I guess that's what I get for trashing Joe Bob Riggs one day I'm not a fan but moving on we go, we get our fourth of July scene note that comes after the back sorry we get the boating scene. We get our.
02:03:50.64
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, ah yes, yes.
02:04:10.46
mikechumpchange
Introduction to hooper. We get everybody going out our introduction to Ben Crenshaw and all these folks and again I love this. It's amity kind of out of control a little bit you get like the deputy going like these aren't my people I don't know anyone here and our introduction to little Richard Dreyfus fresh off of.
02:04:23.47
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Vision.
02:04:30.45
mikechumpchange
Ah, american graffiti. He had turned down the role of hooper a few times and he said that's a movie I want to watch but not necessarily make because it'll be too hard little did he know and he said the only reason he took it was he went to see himself in. Another movie he star and I'm drawing a blank at the moment was like oh my god this movie is terrible I'm never going to work again. I need to call my friend Steve and see if he will still cast me as is hooper at this point. Very smart move. Um.
02:05:01.39
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Smart move.
02:05:02.69
Clayton
More her.
02:05:07.78
mikechumpchange
I'm not a big fan of Richard Dreyfus the person he just really if if if do you know who I am took like became like a sentient at that thought could take like human embodiment. It feels like Richard Dreyfus would be the human embodiment.
02:05:15.77
Clayton
Are.
02:05:24.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Measures.
02:05:27.52
mikechumpchange
Like him and Kelsey Grammar would be the human embodiment of like do you know who I am.
02:05:27.73
Clayton
You know, yeah Dreyfus is not the most likable person in real life but he has done some amazing things on the screen.
02:05:30.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, yeah.
02:05:38.98
mikechumpchange
Yeah, so and I think he was one of the first choices they had so we haven't even talked about Let's talk about this casting a little bit right now I think so much of what makes Jaws work is how warm and how well these 3 leads play off each other and we all have in our notes here. Like the warmth of the cast in the feel of it. Let's talk about that for a minute.
02:06:05.52
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah I love the whole Brody family and how sweet they are to each other and how loving and just sort of like how normal they seem um and the way they kind of like tease each other in have inside jokes and I love the scene where hooper comes over for dinner. Uninvited. And brings random wine and Ellen is like trying to be a good host and she's like oh I hear your you're in sharks and it's just like this bizarre unreal situation and they're trying to stay normal through it I I think that's really relatable and sweet.
02:06:29.14
mikechumpchange
Um.
02:06:38.37
mikechumpchange
Yeah, yeah, that whole dinner scene is great starting with like the Sean like mimicking his dad and that was a yeah and that was something that it would happened off camera in Roy Scheider
02:06:48.71
Clayton
It's so cute.
02:06:54.99
Clayton
Um.
02:06:55.90
mikechumpchange
Saw the kid doing it and went to spielberg and it says hey we should use this so they were able to get him to do it again like right on the spot for the movie because it makes you like chief Brody is not like a hero in the traditional sense. He is just this average dude. Who hates the water but lives on an island who is just trying to like fit in and do his job. He doesn't want to be a hero. He doesn't want to get on a boat. He doesn't want to be the guy to have to kill the shark but he'll do it I guess if he has to he just wants to get by.
02:07:31.58
Clayton
Yeah, ah my favorite thing about that scene is just Richard Drey is taking the food and like anybody eat this ah real power move there I love this cast I think they're all great together I always notice when I watch an older movie and i.
02:07:40.29
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah.
02:07:49.83
Clayton
But this in a minute specifically I miss them casting actors that have interesting faces that don't just look like an Instagram snapchat filter flawless interesting faces are so much cooler to watch in movies.
02:08:00.93
mikechumpchange
Um, who.
02:08:04.36
mikechumpchange
Yeah, yeah, me Roy Schider looks like a piece of old leather I mean he's just been in the sun for days on end. He is like going through lung darts one after another.
02:08:06.79
Clayton
And I wish they did that again.
02:08:15.10
Clayton
Ah.
02:08:23.90
mikechumpchange
He is. He just looks weathered I mean there's no its answer butts oh my god like he smokes so much and in jaws too. It actually becomes like a point made up in the movie like that's your third one this morning like it had. That's how much like Roy Schider is like.
02:08:24.79
Clayton
Gone back when you saw people smoke in movies.
02:08:42.92
mikechumpchange
Pulling on the cancer sticks in these movies like every scene he's got a but in his mouth.
02:08:46.54
Clayton
I always wonder I'm like are these actors smokers and they just are like this needs to be worked into my character which I mean I'm a smoker I would I would need that the thought of being on set for 12 hours not me to but have a cigarette I would I would cry but it's just fun i.
02:08:57.49
mikechumpchange
Move.
02:09:06.15
Clayton
Think they're all really well cast their chemistry is just amazing with each other for good or Ill it just it works.
02:09:07.63
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, just the and it's they're funny I mean they're surprisingly funny. You mentioned the scene like pulling the steak I Just think of like him pouring the.
02:09:18.67
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah into the into the giant glass and then he pours the normal amount for Ellen and for hooper.
02:09:23.67
mikechumpchange
Red wine if you're gonna let that breathe. He's like nope just right? and then when he's on the boat with Hooper a couple scenes later he has the bottle of white in his hand. It's a thing I picked up on last watch like he grabbed that.
02:09:27.89
Clayton
Ah.
02:09:39.62
Clayton
Oh I didn't notice that.
02:09:41.97
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
02:09:43.19
mikechumpchange
He's grabbed that second bottle. Um I love that hoop or I love that Brody's I don't like the water is not necessarily an overdone plot point like what Ellen is like yeah.
02:09:54.70
Clayton
You know if they made that movie now they would bang you over the head with that and have him like this whole overcoming his fear of the water and everything it's just kind of a character detail that you keep in the back of your mind but you don't you know.
02:10:02.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Has.
02:10:04.41
mikechumpchange
Who down in schider's delivery of like when she's like yeah you have a thing about the water. What is he's like drowning and that's it just 1 word and he just cuts like it's a wonderful bit of acting and I was just kind of going through.
02:10:17.48
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah, yeah.
02:10:23.53
mikechumpchange
The run that each of these guys had like right in the early 70 s so scheider does the french connection marathon man all that jazz jaws and sorcerer all back to back to back to back like that is what a fucking run. He's not the star of necessarily. Marathon man the french connection but like he is great and when he's in those movies you have that you have dreyfus doing american graffiti then jaws then close encounters of the third kind and then that run culminates with winning like the youngest back. Best actor winner. Ah, for his performance in the goodbye girl and then you have shah who does the sting the taking a pllm one 2 3 and then jaws. He'd been a great character actor before that but that is a a 1970 s run that is amazing. Shah unfortunately. Heavy heavy heavy drinker in smoker like a guy like that guy that probably crushed about a case a day at least um, heavy smoker. He's 48. He's the same age as me when jaws is released and you know this is filmed two years before so he's technically younger.
02:11:38.38
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
02:11:40.35
mikechumpchange
Like if you told me Shaw was seventy years old when he felt this I would have believed it totally believe it. He would die three years later unfortunately of a heart attack was not eaten by a shark but like that is like for these 3 guys like what a fucking run of of movies in that short stretch of time.
02:11:41.72
Clayton
I Believe that.
02:11:54.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
02:12:00.19
Clayton
There is only 1 run of movies that is ah equal to those maybe even better and I'm going to go with Denise Richards in the late 90 s starship troopers wild things. The world's not enough drop dead gorgeous and you know let's throw in valentine the next year for good measure.
02:12:00.35
mikechumpchange
Oh.
02:12:06.42
mikechumpchange
Oh my goodness.
02:12:14.50
mikechumpchange
Clayton Clayton Clayton okay I think that is the gayest thing that was ever said at our show so congratulations I love you for that i.
02:12:15.93
Clayton
But.
02:12:25.94
Clayton
You're welcome I Think about that film streak all the time all the time.
02:12:27.43
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, what does he win is a good one? yeah.
02:12:32.13
mikechumpchange
To love you for that. Um I won't argue with you here. You didn't throw valentine into that mix. Okay because I say she's okay I missed it My bad I think.
02:12:36.28
Clayton
I added it on as a little cherry at the end but you know.
02:12:36.33
Ariel Powers_Schaub
He he did it I think your brain had already shut off Mike have point yeah can argue with that.
02:12:47.17
Clayton
Um, talking about Denise Richard having the greatest acting film streak. You know.
02:12:51.27
mikechumpchange
Yeah says god love you I hope our listeners are enjoying this episode I think so um, of course they are. Why would why would you be 2 hours in it being like I fucking hate this had souls. Um like that would be.
02:12:53.23
Clayton
Are.
02:12:58.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, of course.
02:13:02.83
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Right.
02:13:04.53
Clayton
I know I love when I see a podcast with a long run time and like they had something to say this will be great. Might take me a few days to get through it and I'm going to love every minute of it.
02:13:11.58
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Aha.
02:13:11.62
mikechumpchange
Now Moon Um, oh the do scene with with the do scene with hooper again. Wickedly funny. The the hooper like hey these guys are all going to die and then later on.
02:13:25.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, yeah.
02:13:29.11
mikechumpchange
The he see these guys and like William we're gonna talk about Williams Score in more depth later but his music is so boisterous and fun as you have all these like craggly old dudes that are basically like. Totally inept like they're dropping depth charges. They're throwing dynamite. They're all on top of 1 another dropping blasting sticks. You got you got Ben Crenshaw by you all you sons of bitches get out of the way you're going to crash on the and then once they catch the shark and the shark by the way this was a real shark.
02:13:51.94
Clayton
Um.
02:14:06.65
mikechumpchange
They had on display. They had it flown up from Florida it had been dead days three days at least they say that its guts were kind of like coming out of the mouth like you could see it like decomposing the smell was insane um because they they.
02:14:07.20
Clayton
Um, apparently it smelled very bad but.
02:14:22.46
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Groves.
02:14:26.46
mikechumpchange
The shark catchers they had gotten were like oh yeah, we'll get you a shark and then they went out and never did anything so and then the shark they caught the guys were like we actually want more money than than you promised us since it's going to be in a movie. It was not fun getting that Tiger Shark up to set. It's you to your point Clayton yeah, it smelled like a basically a five day old dead fish that was out of the water. So.
02:14:50.66
Clayton
S her.
02:14:51.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I didn't know the shark was killed just for the movie that bums me out.
02:14:55.68
mikechumpchange
Yeah, they I think there's a state The crew would catch a lot of sharks when they were had nothing to do on the water and they would as like their form of torture because they were getting tortured by.
02:14:56.75
Clayton
Yeah.
02:15:12.76
mikechumpchange
Bruce the shark not working again. The 70 s not the greatest when it comes to comes to that sort of thing. Um, the guy who gives the a ah when that like lived off that forever like sold t-shirts with his face going. Awa.
02:15:14.81
Clayton
Yeah.
02:15:20.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, and say.
02:15:30.43
mikechumpchange
To like vacationers on the wind your vineyard a very use a local fisherman with the very unfortunate name of Dick young like that is just not the best name to have but he he said in 1 of the documentaries I watch. He's like.
02:15:39.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
02:15:45.67
mikechumpchange
There was a guy that would literally just follow me around going. Oh ah, every time he would see me and it just drove him absolutely up the wall. That's who you need Mrs Kittenner to slap is like that guy following your home and but again like it's almost like.
02:15:57.31
Clayton
Um, yeah, that'd be so irritating.
02:15:58.17
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
02:16:04.96
mikechumpchange
Jubilant right? It's a scene of elation. Everyone's happy. They're taking this picture and then you get Mrs Kittener in what I'm assuming is her dad because that dude looks old um is she right to slap Brody is it. Brody's fault that.
02:16:06.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
02:16:23.50
mikechumpchange
The beaches were open.
02:16:24.24
Clayton
I Don't think it's his fault at all. But I don't think her slap is misplaced clearly the situation was mishandled somewhere and she's a grieving mother I feel like if she felt the blame was somewhere and it's not like she shot him. She just slapped him.
02:16:32.90
mikechumpchange
U.
02:16:41.29
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, she had to put that somewhere.
02:16:42.71
Clayton
I Also greatly appreciate her incredibly dramatic outfit complete with black veil.
02:16:50.24
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, do you think she had all that at home or did she go shopping.
02:16:51.48
mikechumpchange
Down.
02:16:55.14
Clayton
I Don't know like where do you just get that. That's not something you would have at your who I I know I'm like I I don't know where she would have gotten this I mean who has a black veil just lying around.
02:17:02.13
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Griefs are us.
02:17:02.50
mikechumpchange
You can't open that store in the vineyard though. It's a chain store. So.
02:17:05.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Certainly not.
02:17:14.41
Clayton
I Mean ah it was the seventy s I Guess you know people got people got weird.
02:17:15.24
mikechumpchange
Um, um, look I won't lie I have given not a number that is greater than zero amount of thought to like does the suit the black suit I have.
02:17:15.71
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, maybe maybe that was more of a thing.
02:17:31.71
mikechumpchange
Still fit because I have relatives that are getting older and I'm like so I you know it's one of those things where like you probably should always have like a good suit in a good funeral outfit lying around.
02:17:36.44
Clayton
It's fair.
02:17:46.67
Clayton
A yeah get on get on that find a find a black veil.
02:17:46.69
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Listeners That's your advice I guess I guess yeah, that's true.
02:17:47.96
mikechumpchange
There You go my advice. Yeah I would feel like somebody would lend it to her too like you have you mean these are people that live there year round. They don't leave the Island. She's a little bit older as Well. I'm sure she is seen. More than her share of losses like I said that guy might be her dad I don't see her mom in the background. So you know.
02:18:10.71
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, right.
02:18:11.60
Clayton
And she I mean again, it's hard to judge. People's ages and I'm very bad at it. But I'm like I feel like she had Alex near the end of her childbearing years and it makes me a little.
02:18:23.38
mikechumpchange
She was 19 when she made this movie hit. Yeah oh she hold on I'm gonna I'm gonna do a little bit of.
02:18:28.74
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, and the 70 s or a different time.
02:18:30.34
Clayton
Ah, yeah, and like she probably can't just go pop out another kid and she seems like a single mom.
02:18:38.24
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
02:18:41.90
mikechumpchange
Back of the postcard math right now she was 97 when she passed in 2020 so you take so minus forty years she was 52 when she made this movie. Okay.
02:18:53.43
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, okay, 10 yeah.
02:18:55.10
Clayton
And Alex and Alex is supposed to be what maybe 10 let's be generous 10 um most so.
02:18:58.46
mikechumpchange
Yeah, so she's a little yeah but people age like to your point people definitely aged a bit differently living out of all that salt water the sunshine all of that you know probably.
02:19:06.82
Clayton
And.
02:19:15.26
Clayton
Everybody smoked Ah, people didn't use sunscreen religiously like now you weren't getting photographed everywhere like now so you didn't really care photos or practically you know barely in color.
02:19:15.72
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, in fun ahead.
02:19:17.00
mikechumpchange
Everybody smoked It was a requirement. No so yeah, so yeah, like I feel I feel like we're heading down a dangerous path where.
02:19:31.13
Clayton
At this point. Um.
02:19:35.89
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
02:19:36.42
mikechumpchange
We're goingnna get like a 1 ne-sar review for like ageism in a minute and look I am I am I have more days behind me than ahead of me at this point probably so let's move on and talk about the fourth of sorry we got dark here win a little bit little little little quiny on everybody here.
02:19:39.79
Ariel Powers_Schaub
If.
02:19:47.46
Clayton
Um, is dark.
02:19:49.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Gees.
02:19:55.97
mikechumpchange
Um, let's talk this fourth of July scene again. It's nobody's in the water and do you really need to be in the water I mean like all the people are there. You're getting their money. They're just not swimming.
02:20:11.96
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's a good point I'm thinking about like Sienna.
02:20:12.93
Clayton
Yeah I don't think you need to be in the water it depends on it. It depends on the temperature I guess of the day and it doesn't look like they're all dying of heat stroke on that beach. So.
02:20:23.11
mikechumpchange
Yeah for who.
02:20:24.93
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Could be like a doubling down proving our point thing.
02:20:31.30
mikechumpchange
And you notice who's not dressed to go in the waters one Mary Mayor Larry Vaughn who is ah I'd go swimming but I don't want to ruin this like awesome sports coat that I'm rocking on the beach.
02:20:35.45
Clayton
Note.
02:20:40.75
Clayton
Yeah.
02:20:45.32
mikechumpchange
While he's giving speech like amity as you know means friendship which is love it which I did not know that actually until jaws. So I learned a little bit watching this movie. Peter Benchley is the news reporter that is giving a ah.
02:20:47.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
As you know.
02:20:47.24
Clayton
Yes, as you know.
02:21:02.76
mikechumpchange
Ah, dark cloud is tocend it in the shape of a shark that is some awesome writing right? there that is some good good dialogue and he definitely fills out that suit like young Peter Benchly could get it say handsome dude up. Um.
02:21:15.38
Clayton
Yeah, speaking of suits Do you think the mayor if he had gone in the water would he have just worn like swimming trunks in a sports coat or do you think he would have taken it off.
02:21:27.29
mikechumpchange
I Think you would have taken it off but I think the swimming trunks would match the sports coat I think so God I would I would give a lot of money for a sports coat that looked like that I would.
02:21:32.79
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh they have to yeah little anchors.
02:21:34.68
Clayton
Um, ah yeah, we are.
02:21:43.95
mikechumpchange
I would wear the shit out of that. Yeah yeah, I would totally wear that. Um, what I love here. Will talk again about the music later on this is the absence of music like you have this fake out scene in the in the ocean.
02:21:45.93
Clayton
They're amazing and back in style so you know.
02:22:00.72
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
02:22:01.98
mikechumpchange
Where everyone is splashing about and you think the shark is going to appear. You see the fin but what you don't hear is John Williams music because this movie is not going to cheat you. It is not going to give you this this what youma call it. It's.
02:22:19.51
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, like a fake scare.
02:22:20.60
mikechumpchange
Yeah, so fake scare. No, it's going to play by its rules. So you have the the chaos that erupts and I think it's so well done where you only have about 50 I think fifty to eighty extras but it feels much much larger. There's the woman who is holding her child screaming. And from what I have read Spielberg like offered her not a small amount of money to drop the kid which she refused to do is like hey what if you what if you drop the kid when everyone's running out and she was like this is my child certainly not. She's already scared enough with all the chaos going on.
02:22:57.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
02:22:59.66
mikechumpchange
Um, but then you have like the first appearance of Bruce in earnest in that little in the pond scene and that is like again, it's horrifying like it's so quick I think that's what is amazing about so many of the deaths in this movie. They're so fast like Alex's death is so fast. This guy's death.
02:23:08.41
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Are.
02:23:19.49
mikechumpchange
Super quick quint will talk about later on you almost don't have time to process what's going on before it's already over and you just have that chunk of leg dropping to the ocean floor to clue you in like this is what's happened right now.
02:23:33.35
Clayton
Which is one of the reasons I'm not as worried about Shark attacks because if it happens by the time you realize it's happening. It's over most of the time. But yeah, it is scary to witness because it very much I mean.
02:23:41.52
mikechumpchange
Okay, fair enough fair point. Yeah Boom Yeah well I think that was the critical thing. There was having.
02:23:52.28
Clayton
It's not quite blinking you miss it. But it's very quick.
02:24:00.53
mikechumpchange
So many of the beach goers like see the shark fin pop up on the out of the water so they know what's happening at that point like that's where the tide turns here and you get Brody like gets the mayor to sign the order and.
02:24:05.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, answer.
02:24:17.61
mikechumpchange
This is where the mayor kind of redeems himself a little bit like to your point Clayton you said like sometimes you don't really change course until you see it affect people you love? Um, what you have here is the mayor going. My kids are on there as well like they were the.
02:24:27.59
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I can.
02:24:37.40
mikechumpchange
They were on the in the water as well. They were on the beach as well and he's truly shook like he is really. It's a great performance by Hamilton here. He's truly truly shook.
02:24:50.35
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
02:24:53.70
mikechumpchange
I want to ask and I had this in my notes earlier and I forgot to break it up so we're getting into the second half of this movie spielberg draws like a lot of inspiration from hitchcocking here in that like you don't show a lot It's more about suspense you have the music giving the signal of like what's going on. It feels to me like he's borrowing a lot from the structure of psycho and the structure of the birds and that like psycho feels like 2 movies to me everything that happens until the end of the shower scene and then everything after it which is less which is much less interesting than the first half.
02:25:26.15
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
02:25:29.35
Clayton
Um, yeah.
02:25:31.43
mikechumpchange
And then the birds a few years later the first third of that movie feels like a romantic comedy. It doesn't feel like a horror movie at all and then it all of the sudden like very quickly becomes a horror movie a completely different picture. The first half of jaws.
02:25:40.12
Clayton
Ah.
02:25:51.60
mikechumpchange
Is not about the shark the first half of jaws is this real man versus man feel to it. It's really about Brody trying to buck the system that is in place that is going to prevent him from doing what he needs to do to keep people safe and then the second half. Is man versus nature now. It's man versus the beast and it's very very clearly divided.
02:26:13.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Esna.
02:26:17.96
Clayton
I love movies that do that as well and all 3 of those the jaws psycho and the birds I've gotten to see in theaters. So that's fun.
02:26:18.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That's really good point I never thought of it that way but that is true.
02:26:24.10
mikechumpchange
Yeah, and it feels purposeful and it's very I've only seen jaws and theaters. Um I it to the point where I wonder if Hitchcock.
02:26:31.43
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, that is cool.
02:26:40.37
mikechumpchange
Is on set and Spielberg has him and and a chicken wing. He's actually directing Spielberg's making him direct like you're gonna sit on this ocean with me in your black suit and black thoughts you little pervert and just like Spielberg making him stay.
02:26:47.87
Clayton
The Secret Hitchcock movie
02:26:50.34
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
02:26:55.75
Clayton
I mean no blondes were tortured in the making of jaws. So Hitchcock probably wasn't involved.
02:26:57.78
mikechumpchange
And listener. Um.
02:27:03.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, yes.
02:27:05.71
mikechumpchange
Um, well listener in front of the show Rebecca Maccallum just heard that bit and it's like how dare you sir how dare you besmirch the good name of Sir Alfred was over hitchcock aser did he ever get knighted I don't know.
02:27:13.30
Clayton
Um.
02:27:14.55
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um.
02:27:17.93
Clayton
I I feel like he's a sir like I would I would I would throw that out confidently you know.
02:27:18.26
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Don't know.
02:27:22.96
mikechumpchange
Oh it's fine. Someone message Rebecca she would definitely know she definitely know that anyway all right? So we have the scene in Quin's shack we have the whole no quint taking dreyfus by the hands and saying like.
02:27:28.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
She'll definitely know.
02:27:41.41
mikechumpchange
These are City hands been counting money all your life. You know I feel this is the part you're much too nice to be quint ari.
02:27:48.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well yeah, that might be true but I just like his energy.
02:27:52.86
mikechumpchange
You're far too I don't he does bring a good energy to the proceedings. Um, he loses a little respect I feel for like Brody when Brody won't down the shot like you see his face. You see his whole demeaner change and it gets even matter when.
02:28:03.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, listen yeah.
02:28:10.86
mikechumpchange
Hooper downs it like nothing when Brody's like don't drink that and hooper just downs it right away you can see him kind of pissed that this is something okay, maybe we're not as different as we think like quint really sees himself different from like these.
02:28:14.35
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Here.
02:28:25.49
mikechumpchange
College boys these city boys like what do they know is no respect for the technology I will say for all of like hooper's technology like that boat. He goes on to find the feeding area Ben Crenshaw found it as well. Just being an old salt right.
02:28:31.19
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, her.
02:28:41.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yep.
02:28:42.75
mikechumpchange
Just found the same thing and that best jump scare in the movie with Crenshaw's head coming out and I guess in the book I guess it's a whole thing. He had a heart attack when he saw how big the shark was when overboard and then got eaten. So.
02:28:55.52
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That jump scare is up there with exorcist 3 for a jump scare I know is coming and will still get me every time you do need to watch it.
02:29:02.25
Clayton
I have not seen x is 3 but I've heard so much about whatever jump scare happens and exdu is three I feel like I just need to watch it to experience that moment.
02:29:04.91
mikechumpchange
Um, you down it's it's one of the best and Spielberg says the problem with it is. It's a perfect jump scare. Problem he said is like the moment later on when Bruce pops his head out of the ocean that had been the biggest shriek in the theater until that jump scare was sortted in with the head and he said the problem is once I did that the audience no longer trusted me. They were on the lookout every frame and every second what is he going to do to me next some? no yeah and there were a lot of people that yeah.
02:29:38.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, morning.
02:29:43.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Don't think that's a bad thing for a horror movie. Keep you on the edge of your seat.
02:29:44.44
Clayton
No saw somebody on Twitter the other day arguing over whether jaws was actually a horror movie and I'm like this is a hundred percent a horror movie I know wonderful bad takes.
02:29:54.51
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Don't even have time for that. Don't even bring me that.
02:29:55.71
mikechumpchange
Now Oh I Do we're to it I I do um I'll have time I will make ah a brief moment because they're like I a show that I love argued that it's really not a horror movie. It's an adventure movie. That it's ah once you get past first half of the movie. It's not necessarily trying to scare you anymore. Horror movies don't necessarily have to scare you every minute horror movies can be fun. They can be adventurous like this to me is a mix of like horror and adventure and drama.
02:30:21.29
Clayton
Um, ah.
02:30:29.58
mikechumpchange
And I think that but it is most definitely a horror movie. It's in a lot of movies ways. It's ah it's a it's a difference between horror and terror to me horror are is's about things that shouldn't be and terror is about things that could be. And because they're so awful. They like affect infect you deeply within your soul. So to me this is a movie about being terrorized because I could see a scenario where I'm in the ocean and like said the sharks come up like very close and you wouldn't even know they're there and get I'm not a very good sweater. And I am probably delicious. So yeah.
02:31:10.92
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well, that was a better response than I had Mike my response was I don't even have time for this so that was I was much more interesting. No no, no, no, no.
02:31:13.60
Clayton
Ah.
02:31:15.21
mikechumpchange
What was your response. Okay I thought you were gonna add to that response afterwards. Okay, all right? yeah a ten year old boy gets eaten ah by a shark. So.
02:31:19.68
Clayton
Um, yeah I'm like people are getting eaten by a shark. That's a horror movie I'm sorry like.
02:31:28.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, but I had also played I claim everything is horror I'm like that commercial you know Rob Zombie directed a laundry commercial. Oh yeah.
02:31:29.64
Clayton
Yeah, he does.
02:31:31.79
mikechumpchange
There is um horror what is 1 movie. What's a beautiful that's a definitely a gateway horror movie for sure.
02:31:35.13
Clayton
I Maintain that coralline is the most horrifying film ever made coralline.
02:31:43.37
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Mean yes that that's a horror for her. Yeah.
02:31:49.46
mikechumpchange
Definitely I would argue that all day you are 100% right? Okay so I would say this hunt for the shark it number one when there's a ah cut that I love here dissolve that I love you have that beautiful shot of the orca. Sailing into the ocean and it passes through the mouth. The the jaws basically the shark teeth and it's beautiful. Posters have been made of like artistic representations almost as good as as they're sailing out.
02:32:13.53
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, actually.
02:32:23.58
mikechumpchange
It dissolves to the ocean and the ocean is completely red with chum so you have like the boat sailing you go to in in Spielberg was said very specific I don't want a lot of red in this movie like I just want the red to stand out when it's bloody. So a lot of times he had like costumes change and color schemes changed because he didn't want a lot of red he wanted just the only to see it when there was blood that dissolve it sets up like this is what's going to happen to these people like they are going to be. Just bloody hunks of chum in the ocean and it just does it in a really nice subtle way. Um, but after that this whole chase for the shark the second half of the movie I think it underscores how non-heroic everyone is because Hoert just wants to take pictures like he's.
02:33:14.63
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, is here.
02:33:16.58
mikechumpchange
Doesn't really want to kill the shark so much as like he's an r of it. Um, Brody is just want to be on dry land again and good for him for going out. They just called do what I have to do but he's like pissed off and he has to like hurl chum into the ocean.
02:33:25.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
But here.
02:33:27.60
Clayton
Ah.
02:33:35.29
mikechumpchange
More than anything else. It's really it has to be the middle man between Quinin Hooper um and you get the barrel scenes what stands out to you in this last the start of this last act. How is a setting us up for like the final run of this movie.
02:33:40.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Go ahead.
02:33:53.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
We have to care I mean because I think this is what makes us care about quint more we already care about Brodie and Hoover at this point and so far quint has been kind of like carmogeny but you start to.
02:33:58.49
mikechumpchange
Are who yeah.
02:34:09.60
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, sp I mean it's obviously especially after the Indianapolis speech but like even before that you start to care about these 3 as a group and like seeing their strengthsome weaknesses playing against each other um makes it feel more real. So I think. It sets me up hoping that they all live even though I know that they won't you know I'm like oh these 3 guys are all you know, good guys that I want to spend time with I hope they don't die and turn into chum.
02:34:29.59
mikechumpchange
So.
02:34:38.62
Clayton
Yeah, it's just at this point I just want I like hanging out with them like this movie could be 3 hours long of them just like searching for the shark and not even finding it and I'm having a great time with them just on the boat.
02:34:45.60
mikechumpchange
Um, who.
02:34:51.61
mikechumpchange
Yeah, and I think what I like about there are stretches during this I won't say they're boring, but they're very bored right? They're just like playing cards throwing fish in the water. It's quiet. They're drinking a beer. It's not an hour or four. Yeah.
02:35:09.41
Clayton
Rubbing each other's legs. You know as one does.
02:35:11.52
mikechumpchange
It's not it's not an hour of um, nonstop action against a shark. No. It takes its time to be very very quiet and to get to know them to set up more of that tension between hooper and quint when you know Hooper is wrong like he's like It's not the shark. Why are we even chasing after this thing and then when even after he knows he's wrong like quint points out. It's like it proves that you college boys don't have the education to know when you're wrong. And I love that I love this idea of like I might not have book smarts but I've got a lot of experience out on this water respect that.
02:35:44.97
Clayton
It. Ah.
02:35:53.21
Clayton
Also what I think works really well in this stretch of the film is that again, a lot of this movie just feels so authentic to life and anyone who has ever been fishing knows that it is a lot of Tedium with it.
02:36:01.68
mikechumpchange
So for sure.
02:36:13.18
Clayton
Ah, moments of something happening and I think this captures it very well albeit in a more exciting way because it's only half of the movie rather than your entire day.
02:36:18.95
mikechumpchange
Yeah, yeah, and I think the idea of keeping them on that boat for ah the full day and staying there on the night addds to that sense of Tv and I think we even get to go home and.
02:36:34.18
Clayton
Ah.
02:36:36.16
mikechumpchange
They're not that far out I think they're probably like a quarter mile or a half mile out at most. So it's not like they're nowhere in the middle because like when they start swing back during the credits by the time the credits by the time the credits end it ends with them like kind of washing them up on shore of that.
02:36:46.69
Clayton
Yeah, you can see land at some point. No.
02:36:56.50
mikechumpchange
So um, you get the scenes with the barrels which I guess I couldn't ever figure out like what the point of the barrels was watching this until maybe more recently like it prevents the shark From. Staying under because of the buoyancy of the barrels right now. Yeah, and then they can kind of just like harpoon it to death I Guess go.
02:37:12.68
Clayton
Yeah, they can keep it up to the surface where they can do something to it and track it rather than it just.
02:37:15.72
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, oh um I didn't really think of that it keeping the shark up.
02:37:23.35
Clayton
Um, sure.
02:37:29.75
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That does make sense though I was like oh those are for tracking shark but I didn't like think farther.
02:37:31.18
Clayton
He can't can't stay down not with three Also I mean just because of all their issues with the shark and everything it's a really nice visual signifier of like oh it's here Even if we're not seeing it and just this it's a.
02:37:41.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, for the audience.
02:37:41.87
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, yeah, and that's what yeah continue I'm sorry continue.
02:37:51.60
Clayton
Oh no I was I was going to ask? Um I Want to say isn't that the reason they used the barrels was because they couldn't show the shark as much or was that always in the script I felt like I heard somewhere that that's why they used that.
02:37:58.25
mikechumpchange
Yeah I I think you're right I think that like pretty early on when they knew they were not going to get as much of the shark as they wanted to that that became the idea like oh well we could use these barrels and. It works as a stand-in for the shark as does like William's score like that also announces like what's going on know, let's talk about that score as we talk about this scene here because I I it's not just the iconic like 2 note score.
02:38:22.14
Clayton
God that score is so good.
02:38:34.90
mikechumpchange
But like when they have that scene with the barrels. The music changes and it becomes like what I would call like boys on ah on an adventure music like it's really buoyant. It's really springy. It's so upbeat and it feels like the 3 of these guys are now like little kids that are on an adventure on a weekend afternoon
02:38:42.48
Clayton
E.
02:38:54.81
mikechumpchange
It doesn't feel like there's any sense of like that danger at all. Um, so to me like that music is such a great signifier of like what is going on in that moment and then when the Shark Dives under the water. The music slightly slightly changes and it gets a little bit more downbeat because they've lost the shark.
02:39:17.14
Clayton
Yeah, the score is just so it's so good I mean is there a score that is more instantly recognizable than this like in the history of film worldwide.
02:39:31.88
mikechumpchange
Um I was I was wondering that same thing. What are your thoughts because I've talked a lot.
02:39:38.50
Clayton
I was trying to think about it as well. Um, there are obviously like again fucking Spielberg like the Jurassic Park Score is very recognizable and stuff but I would say I think Jar Jaws easily has that. But even as you were saying outside of you know the very very iconic to note ah repeating terrifying suspense building thing. It's got going on. It's just fun. It's one of my favorite scores like I would just listen to this on a on an album if I have.
02:40:04.35
mikechumpchange
Um, who.
02:40:08.26
mikechumpchange
Now now in Williams you know Williams has obviously jaws. There is the score for close encounters. There's the score for star wars raiders Jurassic park.
02:40:14.20
Clayton
Felt so inclined.
02:40:26.75
mikechumpchange
Harry Potter movies like he is I mean John Williams is our mozart. He's our Beethoven. He is like the most recognized the only composer that might come close for film score that would be like his peer would be like maybe Jerry Goldsmith
02:40:31.26
Clayton
We yeah.
02:40:44.82
mikechumpchange
But I would say that like sure.
02:40:44.94
Clayton
Yeah know I mean I would even throw like James Horner up there like um and somebody else I'm like who did the one for there was something I was watching yes like I was like I've watched too many movies I'll be watching something and I don't remember who.
02:40:53.39
mikechumpchange
Howard Shore but I would say like now.
02:41:00.75
Clayton
Did this specific score and I'm like I feel like this is an all look and I'm like oh yeah, that that's them. Um.
02:41:02.64
mikechumpchange
Ah, right? But I think there's something about like williams' score like the move. Oh and so my favorite theme by him is like his theme from Superman like that is my favorite piece of like John Williams music but like it's not just like the scores but the movies.
02:41:13.34
Clayton
Ah, so good.
02:41:19.85
mikechumpchange
That he's involved with in are also so iconic ET we just we left out e t so you think about all of these and part of it is like these movies would not work nearly as well without John Williams composing your jaws like didn't like it's famously like jaws didn't work.
02:41:25.56
Clayton
Um, yeah, there's just there's so many.
02:41:37.51
Clayton
Oh.
02:41:39.34
mikechumpchange
Until you put the music for it in and then all of a sudden it became this iconic thing I think to your point like is it.
02:41:43.79
Clayton
Or even like in Psycho you watch that shower scene without the score. It's a totally different experience and it's one of those things you don't necessarily think about a lot because a good score doesn't necessarily call attention to itself. But.
02:41:50.89
mikechumpchange
Is yeah.
02:42:00.92
Clayton
It does so much to add to the mood of things and how you're supposed to feel and I think Jaws is just I mean it's one of the best.
02:42:03.81
mikechumpchange
Know you know, but I think to your point about is it the most recognizable what the jaws score does that others don't necessarily do like I might recognize the star wars theme or the Superman theme first. But. Like the jaws theme became this kind of note this kind of um people would like hum it to 1 another like if you're in a pool with someone and you're sneaking up on them. You would do the jaws the to somebody you know that's what you would do. Ah, that's where it becomes like so.
02:42:30.64
Clayton
Oh yeah.
02:42:41.35
mikechumpchange
So instantly recognizable Aria what are your thoughts on John Williams and his score for jaws.
02:42:46.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I mean what can I possibly say that hasn't already been said it is perfect. It's um I think it I think it was Jack Black in the movie the holiday who this I know this really random. But I don't know have you guys seen the movie the holiday.
02:43:06.30
Clayton
I I am a gay man of course I have seen the holiday.
02:43:08.60
mikechumpchange
Um I have not.
02:43:13.12
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay, so this lined up how I thought it would um so Jack Black is explaining to I don't need I think Kate Winslet maybe um a
02:43:19.30
mikechumpchange
Um.
02:43:20.13
Clayton
Yeah.
02:43:24.11
Ariel Powers_Schaub
About like why the jaws score matters and he's like 2 notes and you have a villain so I would say like that is exactly how I think of it now and I thank Jack Black for that.
02:43:31.39
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, and to yeah and that makes so much sense, especially given that the shark is in so little of this movie whenever you hear it really is.
02:43:35.98
Clayton
In.
02:43:42.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is.
02:43:45.69
Clayton
Bruce is such a diva.
02:43:49.15
mikechumpchange
He only had green. Ah, he could not eat swimmers that were in green trunks. They had to be removed from the fish tank. Um, it is a very deep cut um much like the bite of a shark would be a deep cut but whenever you hear those 2 notes you know.
02:43:54.15
Clayton
Um, yeah.
02:43:55.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
But it's a deep cut.
02:44:01.71
Clayton
Yes.
02:44:04.75
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I have.
02:44:07.51
mikechumpchange
But not only that how the notes are played the tem the rhythm of those notes this when it was really slow. It's this kind of lounging feel. The shark is in the area but he's just kind of cruising but that it would build up in pace and tempo. It would amp up the fear and you know that it attack. About to happen. It's really brilliant and we're maybe not talking about this movie if Williams doesn't composed this score but just as much love yeah, and just as much as that I love the music he uses for this shake scene.
02:44:35.26
Clayton
Right? That's an integral part to it.
02:44:46.17
mikechumpchange
With the shark to the degree where I was listening to it. It felt like Williams borrowed elements of that piece of music later on for star wars specifically the run to the death star and the death star exploding. You can hear elements of that like that the quick 2 notes have come.
02:44:54.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Here.
02:45:05.67
mikechumpchange
From the horn section and then I think some of the symbols and other kind of like triangles of play feels like he borrowed from part of this part of the jaw score and he reused it again in Star Wars or repurposed it for Star wars.
02:45:22.21
Clayton
I feel like that's a thing you see a lot with ah film composers. They'll have little things and hopefully I'm not just a um like brave heart and Titanic have a lot of really similar motifs.
02:45:28.99
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah.
02:45:35.20
mikechumpchange
Who.
02:45:38.30
Clayton
Watching them and um yeah I Love when composers do that again. It's just it's different. It's not like they're ripping it not like they're ripping themselves off or anything it just is like oh this is a fun thing that works let's use it in a different way because it didn't necessarily fit in this movie and.
02:45:40.76
mikechumpchange
Now.
02:45:46.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And.
02:45:48.81
mikechumpchange
Um, no, no it works it totally works speaking of working we have.
02:45:56.90
Clayton
And just it's fun. Take little Easter eggs.
02:46:04.95
mikechumpchange
Maybe 1 of the best scenes of male bonding ever in a movie like healthy male bonding as hooper and quint kind of put their differences aside in their trading stories of like scars and heartache and a couple little things I love before we even get.
02:46:20.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
02:46:24.18
mikechumpchange
The Indianapolis speech is number 1 when um cooper pulls down his shirt and says look right here and Brodie just says you're wearing a sweater because Dreyfus is just so fucking hairy. Um, it's a great little bit of humor and then.
02:46:42.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Aha.
02:46:43.38
mikechumpchange
Hooper and quinter trading scar stories like Brod Brody lifts up his shirt. He looks and then he decides not to say anything and I think that's like ah, an example of like really positive masculinity like I'm here I can just listen. Don't necessarily feel the need to one up and I don't feel like I have anything to add to the conversation. So I'm just going to stay quiet and listen and I kind of love that.
02:47:10.15
Clayton
I do too especially contrasted with the other 2 in their dick measuring contest that they're having the entire movie with each other about who's more manly and stuff.
02:47:18.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Her.
02:47:23.94
mikechumpchange
Are who are ah.
02:47:25.46
Clayton
Also combined with their incredible sexual tension while they're showing off their scars if flicker they can are they going to kiss are they going to kiss on the Orca and it's just it's very funny. It's a great scene and Birdie's just such a good care I mean they're all great characters. But I think Brodie is a very positive.
02:47:30.42
mikechumpchange
And help.
02:47:36.99
mikechumpchange
Who down.
02:47:41.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Brody's so he's in his head.
02:47:42.40
mikechumpchange
You know what? I love what I love is this scene transitions to the Indianapolis beach is when with Brodie points out like what's that on your arm and it's the tattoo that's been removed and in.
02:47:44.38
Clayton
Yeah, it's a very internal performance.
02:48:01.35
mikechumpchange
Hooper jokes like let me guess mother quint is so quiet in that moment and he like very affectionately puts his hand on Hooper's like forearm. It's a really affectionate gesture and it demonstrates how he's softened.
02:48:16.99
Clayton
Ah.
02:48:20.64
mikechumpchange
Towards hooper to a degree like that's not something that he would have been able to say to hooper at the start of this scene and transitions to that Monologue which was ah suggested by sackler then John Milius who was on set for some of it.
02:48:27.00
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Right.
02:48:29.40
Clayton
Um, now.
02:48:39.12
mikechumpchange
Wrote the scene Shah Readit said this is 9 pages. It'll take 15 minutes to do shah was a award-winning novelist and playwright himself so he rewrote what milius had done kind of condensed it to its essence in about 5 pages. Tries to deliver it smashed out of his mind. Can't do it and kind of comes back very sheepishly the next day is like give me 1 more chance at it and nails it on the first take ah just and I think this how how? well.
02:49:08.87
Clayton
Wow.
02:49:16.34
mikechumpchange
Does this scene explain the essence of like who quint is and why he is the way he is what about this works.
02:49:23.24
Clayton
Everything That's one of the best Monologues in movie history. Maybe I mean are you've got this just up in your bathroom to read. So it's a it's just wonderful. It's a great I feel like.
02:49:26.36
mikechumpchange
Are you are.
02:49:33.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Do I do.
02:49:42.42
Clayton
You know if you're wanting to audition for something. This is a monologue you just want to do just to do it because damn oh I would not attempt that in 1000000 years but you know if you're a little upstart that things you've got it go for it.
02:49:47.58
mikechumpchange
I wouldn't attempt it I couldn't attempt this.
02:49:58.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It tells us everything we need to know about quint and the meta layer about the uss in Indianapolis fits so well into jaws. I wonder how? well like I wonder how much that was intentional or you know happy accidents all over the place. Nothing about the Indianapolis is a happy accident. Um, but it.
02:50:17.87
mikechumpchange
Um.
02:50:18.84
Clayton
Now.
02:50:24.87
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Brody doesn't know what the Indianapolis is and probably a lot of viewers don't the first time they watch jaws either I guess depending on your age and just like your situation. Um, so hooper in awe says you were on the in Indianapolis and Brody's like what? Ah you know he kind of like has to come around to are we still joking around. Okay, we're not joking around anymore and it's like suddenly everything about quint is explained very efficiently and I don't think quint would give a 15 minute speech like I think quint as a character.
02:50:48.33
Clayton
Ah.
02:51:00.28
Clayton
Ah.
02:51:01.87
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Needs to just quickly be like these are the bullet point facts. Anyway, we delivered the bomb and it's it is the perfect encapsulation of who he is.
02:51:04.62
mikechumpchange
Um, who.
02:51:10.50
mikechumpchange
Now.
02:51:10.96
Clayton
I mean he might go on for 15 minutes rambling and singing sea shanties. But yeah for this type of thing like it's just very direct to the point absolutely chilling. And yeah.
02:51:15.91
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Right.
02:51:18.33
mikechumpchange
Um, that we would do Um, how.
02:51:25.40
mikechumpchange
And this is.
02:51:25.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And I don't you know the bombing of hiroshima I'm not going to try to draw a lot of parallels to that to jaws because I think that that might be offensive to do or something but I do think it's like. Quint was sent on a mission a deadly mission and no one was there to help because no one knew about the Indianapolis and then now quint is a person who's like I will do this by myself like that's his only way he can handle it and.
02:51:56.14
mikechumpchange
Hello.
02:52:00.82
Ariel Powers_Schaub
He was set up. Yeah, he was set up on the Indianapolis. You know, like the way they were sent out on that mission. No one was there to help them and so now he's not like very trusting of authority.
02:52:12.90
mikechumpchange
Know it to me or inform it. What does he but come after the Indian Applepoli becomes a shark hunter. He's going to try to take out as many sharks as he can. It's a feudal mission. It's um.
02:52:15.93
Clayton
I'm just impressed. He would want to go back out on the water ever.
02:52:20.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And from yep.
02:52:30.64
mikechumpchange
Just did the friends of Eddie Coyle for the Patreon episode at the end of that movie. Peter Boyle's character gives a speech about a guy who hates pigeons so he keeps trying to like get rid of all the pigeons in the city like there's 10000000 of them like you'll never get rid of all the pigeons and then they're also making just more baby pigeons every day it's. You're tilting at windmills you'll never get rid of a mom and it's much to the same thing here like no matter how many sharks quint takes out no matter how many sets of jaws that he boils in his workshop back home. It's like not even a drop in a bucket.
02:53:04.33
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Here here.
02:53:06.12
mikechumpchange
It's not even a drop in the water of the ocean in terms of like how many he's able to to to to take out. It's informed who he's going to be and you see from this point on in the movie quin's decision making becomes less and less sound and I rewatching the movie. This episode was struck with a thought like had quint given any conscious thought to his time waiting after the Indianapolis sank had he thought about that in years on a conscious level. Was that something that he had submerged deep deep deep into his subconscious and now that's come back up to the surface and you see him smash the cb and run his boat. He strands the 3 of them out in the ocean with no way to communicate to the shore.
02:53:54.96
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This in.
02:53:59.44
mikechumpchange
No way of letting people know where they are and no way of safely getting back home because he's essentially he's snapped from yeah down, he's in the same position. He was.
02:54:06.44
Clayton
Who.
02:54:06.61
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And he puts them in the same position that the Indianapolis was in completely on their own without help.
02:54:17.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I.
02:54:18.55
mikechumpchange
Thirty years ago waiting for the boat to come adrift at sea surrounded by a shark and no way of letting anyone know they're there. It's a beautiful parallel.
02:54:28.73
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Her hair.
02:54:31.85
Clayton
It really is. There's a I'm going to bring up a weird weird comp here. Ah the film annihilation when they're talking about um Natalie Portman's husband did he want to go on this suicide mission was he suicidal or whatever.
02:54:35.55
Ariel Powers_Schaub
If you.
02:54:35.71
mikechumpchange
Who.
02:54:48.16
Clayton
And Jennifer Jason Lee is like a lot of people aren't necessarily suicidal but people as a whole are very self-destructive in choices that they make and it just kind of like hardcoded in them and so yeah, he just made these very.
02:54:56.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, and.
02:55:07.31
Clayton
Horrible choices that put them in a really rough situation like they're lucky any of them survived just because he was so like focused on this completely unattainable goal of getting rid of sharks because of what he experienced and he's just really broken. Also don't you love watching stuff for podcast and you just like.
02:55:09.21
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, absolutely.
02:55:13.44
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, her.
02:55:19.81
mikechumpchange
Um.
02:55:27.21
Clayton
Suddenly see it in a new way after watching something 75 times oh
02:55:27.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, yes, absolutely.
02:55:32.10
mikechumpchange
That's why we do it I mean that's why we show right? Yeah I never gave thought and there's also this idea there is pride and economics behind him destroying the cb like he's out for that $10000
02:55:43.61
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
02:55:44.75
Clayton
Yeah, $10000 in the 70 s yeah.
02:55:46.85
mikechumpchange
And if the coast guard comes and have to that's about probably forty fifty thousand bucks if the coast guard comes like he can't lay claim to that anymore. If his boatness is right? He can't lay claim so there's also again, this idea of putting economic survival.
02:55:55.60
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Okay.
02:56:05.59
mikechumpchange
Ahead of physical survival. It's just ah, a microcosm of it as opposed to like the island as a whole and what he's done is he's put these other 2 in danger speaking of danger on a scale of 1 to this is the worst idea I've ever heard.
02:56:12.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
02:56:24.37
mikechumpchange
Hoover's idea of like well they put me in the cage and let me try to stab the shark in the mouth. How bad is this plan.
02:56:33.28
Clayton
It's up there. It's it's up there.
02:56:33.56
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It It seems bad.
02:56:37.77
mikechumpchange
Yeah in and I will try to stab this giant giant shark in this mouth which has a lot of teeth in it. Ah that bite down really hard and really fast I'm going to try to like stab it with this pole.
02:56:49.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And.
02:56:54.14
mikechumpchange
This seems like a really bad idea.
02:56:55.85
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Well and would it even kill it.
02:56:57.72
Clayton
That ultimately comes to nothing. He doesn't get it stabbed. They don't use it. It doesn't come back. It's not like a checkoffs ah poison it yeah.
02:57:00.11
mikechumpchange
Um, you.
02:57:06.21
mikechumpchange
You saying our? yeah.
02:57:07.41
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, well I Just like does is he just stabbing it or was he putting something in the shark. Ok.
02:57:15.70
mikechumpchange
So there is like a poison. There's like this like a a cyanide poison or strychnine or cyanide poison. Yeah, and the idea was to kind of like stab it in the mouth and that would allow the poison to kind of go through the because it it would if it went into the mouth. It would go into the bloodstream.
02:57:17.23
Clayton
Yeah, it's like Shark fentanyl you know.
02:57:23.77
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Oh okay, and.
02:57:34.89
Ariel Powers_Schaub
All right I was just thinking like seems like the shark would just sort of bounce off of that. But maybe they have the right amount of poison If if they knew what they were doing I don't know they're just trying stuff.
02:57:35.18
mikechumpchange
Quicker and killed a shark relatively quickly. The Shark nope.
02:57:42.57
mikechumpchange
Now I don't know it doesn't seem like the best plan ever seems like a pretty. It's like those mems you seem or it's like step 1 convince people to like do this thing for me, you step 2 profit. You know it's seems like that kind of idea.
02:57:59.29
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You're right? Yes, it's the underpent snomes from South park.
02:58:00.19
Clayton
Yeah, another thought I had that I should have said a moment ago. But um, the whole thing with quint and his eventual demise and the choices he made. Do you think this is always going to be his end since he.
02:58:02.19
mikechumpchange
Oh.
02:58:13.80
Clayton
Had survived what happened with the Indianapolis.
02:58:14.98
mikechumpchange
I Think so I think is a very like he's the ahab of the story. He's the one that's chasing the shark. He's the one that is been like the old man that is like kind of it's been his quest for so many years that this was eventually.
02:58:31.63
Ariel Powers_Schaub
The.
02:58:33.52
mikechumpchange
Was always faded that this was going to be his end I don't think I think the minute he steps on that boat. He's for the last. He's sealing his fate in his end is horrific. It is 50 and it's so.
02:58:45.36
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
02:58:48.60
Clayton
Ah, it's awful I hate it I mean it's It's great, but.
02:58:52.30
mikechumpchange
Again, it's so fast. It's like 52 seconds I timed out like 52 seconds of screen time from the moment the shark and this is the scene that got Roy Scheider to want to be in the movie. He's like you're going to have a shark flop on a boat and eat a person. He ran into spielberg at a party and said inpi I don't know who's Goingnna Play Brody and Spielberg is like me like I will play Charlton Heston wanted the role of Brody and Spielberg is like it would have been. You could have yelled you damn dirty shark that would have been amazing. But.
02:59:19.92
Clayton
That would have been fun.
02:59:23.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
02:59:28.71
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, yes.
02:59:29.81
mikechumpchange
Would have been too recognizable like it was really important for Spielberg to have this like every person quality to the and I think that really comes through here. Um, his death is like that 52 seconds it's so fast and so chaotic from the moment in that. The orca like breaks into half essentially and you get that long slide with nothing to grab onto. He goes out fighting. He goes out trying to stab the thing but once he's kicking at its teeth and you know what's coming and it's.
02:59:50.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Has.
03:00:08.94
mikechumpchange
Again, like in the or in the Minneapolis speech I quint says you know you could hear their high pitch screaming and the last sound that quint makes before the shark bites down really hard in him is a high pitched scream and it's awful. It's one of the most gruesome and.
03:00:14.28
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is.
03:00:23.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, yeah.
03:00:28.40
mikechumpchange
Best deaths and Horror movie history.
03:00:28.24
Clayton
Yeah I love it I was really shocked at the ending of this because I feel like I never noticed pacing on things until I'm watching them for a podcast and I was like there's so much that still needs to happen. There's like 7 minutes left like how are they gonna wrap this up and then it just all just happened.
03:00:35.95
mikechumpchange
Move.
03:00:42.21
mikechumpchange
Um, who are yeah yeah.
03:00:42.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Wish.
03:00:47.20
Clayton
Right? then and then it's just like credits and keep forgetting. You know, modern movies take 45 minutes to end something after they wrap up the conflict. But yeah, those last little events of jaws go by so quickly. My favorite touch from his death specifically.
03:01:00.17
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, it's.
03:01:04.69
Clayton
Is it from his death. But right after when the shark is coming after birdie and you just see the flesh stuck in jaws teeth. It stuck in Bruce's teeth
03:01:07.52
mikechumpchange
Um, yes, yep.
03:01:09.50
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I That all that gets me the flash in the teeth is upsetting. Love it is yes.
03:01:13.22
mikechumpchange
Little pieces of quint. Yeah, it were it makes sense right? I mean it's gonna get you're gonna get stuff stuck in all of those teeth you have.
03:01:15.92
Clayton
I Think it's a wonderful, wonderful touch.
03:01:25.55
Clayton
Um, yeah.
03:01:29.13
mikechumpchange
Again, not the most sound plan of all time but in terms of like a movie ending brody up on that perch. It's a lean. It's a gorgeous shot of like Brody like horizontal to the ocean. The the shark is working for a change. You see that.
03:01:37.28
Clayton
So gorgeous.
03:01:46.12
mikechumpchange
Tank like right within the mas of its mouth and you get smile you son of a bit just second best line in the movie. We didn't even say like you're gonna need a bigger boat right? I mean that is obviously the most iconic the most iconic line from the movie. Um, but that.
03:01:54.52
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, we didn't mention that.
03:01:57.24
Clayton
Um, yeah.
03:02:05.11
mikechumpchange
Smile you son of a bitch and it it blows up in spectacular fashion.
03:02:11.84
Clayton
And then gets in their mouths which bothers me every single time when they're in the water and they're just talking and I'm just like oh that's that's really gross.
03:02:17.45
mikechumpchange
Um, ah or think the roast shark would be kind of tasty people. Eat Shark have yeah.
03:02:17.45
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Says that.
03:02:23.58
Clayton
Maybe.
03:02:25.60
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Mean if you like cook it and season it maybe not if you just okay, you know what? what do I know.
03:02:28.95
Clayton
I Don't know I Love sushi So I'm like I I'd try it wrong. But you know in.
03:02:34.80
mikechumpchange
And and you get hooper pops back up and I think Spielberg said we had to keep hooper alive. It's what the audience wanted they wanted like 1 more cheer before the movie lets out and I think Hooper unexpectedly coming up.
03:02:47.31
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
03:02:51.95
mikechumpchange
Got a big cheer from the audience and you have that really brief like quint and Brody just shakes his head and it's a great small little moment. They paddle back to shore your critic to your point clay in the credits role and it's the end of the movie. At this point you don't have.
03:02:59.11
Ariel Powers_Schaub
This is.
03:03:06.65
Clayton
Ah.
03:03:11.17
mikechumpchange
This big like heroes welcome when they get to town. There's not like 8 epilogues come. You don't have a stinger at the end of the movie where you realize there's like a baby shark in the water. It's like nope yeah yeah I like that if this was made now.
03:03:19.39
Clayton
Yeah, do do sorry.
03:03:21.55
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, do do do do ah.
03:03:28.90
mikechumpchange
There would be like a whole like cinematic universe of different animals like there'd be a postcredit sequence of like a bear in the woods with like you know what? I mean it would just be the animals are going to attack all humans like you would have that. No.
03:03:37.58
Clayton
Um, cocaine maybe.
03:03:42.98
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I mean that's kind of what Godzilla does right? Is you get all these different kaiju but it's amazing. So.
03:03:44.91
Clayton
Yeah.
03:03:46.24
mikechumpchange
Oh.
03:03:53.90
mikechumpchange
Yeah, that is true. It is very amazing. Um, before we go Let's talk about the legacy of this movie and how it really changed. How movies are made. Um, it's a lot of ways considered like the first real blockbuster or the birth of the modern blockbuster. It's the first movie to cross $100000000 at the box office and to put it in context. It's at a time when movies cost $2 a ticket.
03:04:16.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Wow.
03:04:25.55
mikechumpchange
Maybe like $2 and fifty cents at the most for a ticket.
03:04:26.43
Clayton
You imagine getting to see a movie for $2 do you happen to sorry to put you on the spot for this. Do you happen to have the numbers of like what that would be adjusted for inflation.
03:04:30.86
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes.
03:04:37.45
mikechumpchange
I Do not let's see Jaws adjusted for inflation.
03:04:48.41
mikechumpchange
The film grossed 260000000 in its original release it rep it would be 1.17 $2000000000 now it would be.
03:05:01.18
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Holy crud.
03:05:01.69
Clayton
Wow.
03:05:07.00
mikechumpchange
Right? near the top. It would still be in the top 10 It would be number 7 if adjusted for inflation gone with the wind would be the number one it sold and an estimated 128000000
03:05:16.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Because.
03:05:24.15
mikechumpchange
Hundred and 60000 tickets over it can I think the I think between this and the re releasese it made over 400000000 at the box office in its first real run at theaters. So I think a couple things factor into that number 1
03:05:25.63
Clayton
Not too shabby.
03:05:27.53
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Holy crap.
03:05:43.22
mikechumpchange
They timed the release for like the paperback hitting all the book of the month clubs like this book was massive and it really drummed up interest for the movie. It's the first movie to really do a television blitz like there were 3 stations at the time.
03:05:57.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Since.
03:06:01.53
mikechumpchange
Universal made the commitment to spending like close to a million dollars on Tv ads on the 3 networks in just like the few days leading up to the movie and it's not just that they flooded the airwaves. Voiceover in this commercials by a gentleman actor Percy Rodriguez he gave that when you hear that voice over we'll probably drop it in here very quickly. The idea like it gives us this gravitas and this sombreness and this sense of real fear to it. It made you want to go see this movie that ends with a line like if god it's like god created the devil and gave it jaws. It's like fuck if I'm not running out of the theaters to see that movie at this point right.
03:06:46.94
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Hell yes.
03:06:52.18
mikechumpchange
Poster artwork is created by Roger Castel you get that iconic artwork of the shark under the water you have the swimmer coming up and the jaw and jaws coming up under the water. It was the same similar themed artwork on the hardcover of the book.
03:07:03.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Moving.
03:07:10.58
mikechumpchange
But the shark looks like ah like a whale and has really little teeth. It's like a not really scary. Just look at a dolphin if anything and then for the paperback Castel creates this iconic image and they allow them to also use it for the movie so you see that theater yet picture in theater lobbies like you're going to this.
03:07:27.63
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
03:07:30.33
mikechumpchange
It opens on June twentieth it's the first movie to really open wide. It opens in 409 theaters which was unheard of at the time at that point movies would open like in a few cities and then roll out over the coming weeks. Originally secured 600 theaters for Jaws but universal studio executive Lou Waserman says scale it back like let's not let's cut of leafs a few hundred theaters out. Let's make it an event I want people to see lines around the block to get in.
03:08:03.82
Ariel Powers_Schaub
So.
03:08:05.75
mikechumpchange
I want people to have to drive to a different town to go see this movie. He said I don't want to own the weekend I want to own the summer which is what jaws does like having it come out in June Two is a stroke of genius like if this comes out at like christmas.
03:08:13.21
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Nice.
03:08:22.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, definitely.
03:08:22.47
mikechumpchange
Probably not the same impact right? Kim 14 more than fourteen weeks yeah Yeah, more than fourteen weeks at number one first movie to cross a 100000000 at the box office.
03:08:25.23
Clayton
I mean I do love is some good counter programming. But yeah.
03:08:33.40
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah.
03:08:38.18
mikechumpchange
Make 7000000 in its first weekend. So again that is gees like 35000000 people going to see jaws. Yeah, oh man it is insane. so so 7000000 there. Um, first movie to cross 100000000
03:08:43.93
Clayton
Did better than the flash. Not even adjusted for inflation.
03:08:50.59
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
03:08:57.92
mikechumpchange
It's the number 1 movie of all time until star wars comes out two years later in 1978 it makes its television debut and when it play I think it's like abcs movie of the week when it. Comes when it's on television. It gets a 58% share which is what if you took 2 super bowls and played them on 2 separate stations now they would get like a 58% share or maybe a little bit better. But that basically means 3 out of every 5 televisions the country that were turned on were watching jaws when it made its cv debut it's a phenomenon and we talked about the merchandising it makes Spielberg's career he can basically do anything he wants.
03:09:33.82
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Holy crap.
03:09:46.53
mikechumpchange
It bakes a star out of out of Richard Dreyfus it makes a star out of John Williams whose career. He had already won an Oscar for his compositions or his arrangements and fiddler of the roof. Um famously spielberg does not. Get nominated. It gets a nominated for best picture he doesn't get nominated for best director I would seek out that clip online of him learning. He doesn't get nominated. It's him hanging out with Joe Spinelli of maniac ah, that's a great clip where spielberg is like I didn't get nominated. This is bullshit.
03:10:15.17
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Um, oh.
03:10:21.66
mikechumpchange
And he's like I I got I lost out to feini. It's ah I think the movie that wins. Best picture that year is Milo Forman for 1 flew over the cu who's nest so you know? Yeah yeah, you can understand that academy.
03:10:30.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, the Academy and.
03:10:36.57
Clayton
They make such good choices all the time.
03:10:38.84
mikechumpchange
But you can understand that one well I mean 1 flew over the cugo's nest is pretty fucking. Awesome so I can't really no, it's not hasn't have the impact that jaws has had but it is the kind of movie that you would think like this is going to win an Oscar right.
03:10:46.63
Clayton
It is.
03:10:48.54
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It's good. It is not better than Jaws I Yeah so yeah, for sure.
03:10:58.74
mikechumpchange
All right, all right? Any final thoughts. What are our last thoughts on jaws. Okay.
03:11:07.80
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I'm just checking my notes.
03:11:08.26
Clayton
I mean I just love how amazing all these different pieces come together to make this a fabulous whole script is great. The performances are top notch. The editing is phenomenal and I mean Spielberg. Has that little magic touch that he brings to pretty much everything he is involved with it just works. It's so good I was I wouldn't have even had to rewatch this for this podcast if I didn't want to like this movie just lives rent free.
03:11:28.60
mikechumpchange
Are are.
03:11:42.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Same nothing.
03:11:43.39
mikechumpchange
Um, yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's always.
03:11:46.68
Clayton
As they say. The only thing we haven't really touched on is what this did to public opinion about Sharks is a little unfortunate but I mean that's really the only other thing I had was.
03:11:54.99
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Nothing.
03:12:00.97
mikechumpchange
Yeah, what would you want to say on that.
03:12:07.93
Clayton
Um, it's just a I don't think art needs to be ah responsible for everything it does. It's a piece of art. It's a story but in this situation just everybody being like oh sharks are just.
03:12:15.33
mikechumpchange
Are.
03:12:24.75
Clayton
Really malevolent as opposed to just you know they're just animals doing their thing and really caused a huge influx of shark hunting and everything that still is not great because people were just. Scared of sharks and most of the time sharks aren't going to bother you and it was just kind of an interesting thing that happened after this movie and you know I just think it's a weird little footnote in the story of Jaws the motion picture.
03:12:43.25
mikechumpchange
Right.
03:12:52.30
mikechumpchange
Um, now.
03:12:56.35
mikechumpchange
Yeah, it is something that benchley talked about for years afterwards. Spielberg is yeah yeah because I knew it would have had this impact I would have have written the book.
03:13:00.69
Clayton
Yeah, he felt bad about it.
03:13:09.42
Ariel Powers_Schaub
There's a documentary coming out this month on Shutter again shutter pay us for the plug um called sharks floitation where it um I haven't seen it yet, but it is coming out and it does talk about like the effect of shark movies. I think it's going to be about this point. So yeah, that'll be interesting.
03:13:29.10
Clayton
Yeah I'll have to catch that.
03:13:31.27
mikechumpchange
I'll definitely check that out. Excellent I'll definitely check that out how about yourself Ariel any final thoughts.
03:13:36.20
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No I don't think so it's like you could talk about this movie forever. There's so much that we haven't talked about but at some point you know you can't just keep going but it I know it's like it's just it.
03:13:45.82
Clayton
And what has it been said.
03:13:53.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
We said at the beginning 5 stars. No notes I mean yeah yeah, we well 5 stars many pages of notes.
03:13:56.14
mikechumpchange
Now we had a lot of notes. We ended up 5 stars many many pages of notes. So um, yeah, that's a perfect movie. It is and it's a blockbuster that doesn't necessarily feel.
03:13:56.62
Clayton
Ah.
03:14:00.50
Clayton
Yes.
03:14:06.22
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah.
03:14:12.54
Clayton
Yeah.
03:14:12.85
mikechumpchange
Like a blockbuster it kickstarts a run for spielberg you think of this close encounters raiders of the lost ArkET like that is just an almost unprecedented run in movies. He'd you know I think he is.
03:14:19.14
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Mr.
03:14:24.76
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Here.
03:14:30.91
mikechumpchange
Perfect blend of like a master filmmaker someone who deeply loves and appreciates movies and film but also knows how to make an incredible popcorn movie. He knows like at the end of the day he wants to entertain people. He wants people to leave the theater smiling. He is a master at his craft but he's also a great populist director. It's something. That's not easy to do I mean m knight shaalan has chased that role for years I ever since the sixth sense and he is very open about talking about his affection for Spielberg and saying.
03:14:58.19
Ariel Powers_Schaub
No.
03:15:09.27
mikechumpchange
It's okay to be like a cheeseburger and f fries type of director like those. He's said that about his own movies. Um, yet, there's something about like Spielberg can make movies that can entertain the population but can be every bit as deep and moving as it acor. Sayse.
03:15:12.87
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, specific.
03:15:27.00
Clayton
Yeah I will say this this is the first spielberg movie I've watched since the fablemans came out and it's kind of interesting to watch his stuff after seeing that and just kind of getting that insight to who he.
03:15:28.73
mikechumpchange
As Peter Bunkanovvich
03:15:46.40
Clayton
Is and was and grew up um is just kind of fascinating. Oh it's really good I had not I watched it in theaters once so it's not like super fresh but just what he went through as a child and his love of movies and.
03:15:49.78
mikechumpchange
Um, how so because I that's on my things to watch this summer
03:15:58.77
mikechumpchange
Are who are.
03:16:05.37
Clayton
His pursuit of that and just how excited he was seeing what you could do and it's cool I Would definitely recommend it. It's not everybody's cup of tea. But I think gives a really cool insight into who he is.
03:16:09.78
mikechumpchange
Down.
03:16:21.48
mikechumpchange
Excellent I did I definitely yeah I definitely want to check that out this summer well that's our talk on jaws it was a big episode it was a big episode and
03:16:23.81
Clayton
Plus it's just it's really beautiful I mean it's Spielberg.
03:16:35.27
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, no big deal. Ah.
03:16:35.68
Clayton
Ah, yeah.
03:16:40.81
mikechumpchange
You know again I've I've kind of said this like this to me is the definition of a 1 franchise 1 movie franchise the second movie there's gonna be some fun things to talk about in the remaining movies I don't anticipate.
03:16:50.30
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And.
03:17:00.17
mikechumpchange
Don't Anticipate. It's all like you with the Texas Chainsaw Master series like the first movie is off the masterpiece but there's enough interesting things going on and like all of those sequels or like they're really really fun to talk about by the time like Jaws gets to see World. You're like all right I think we can wrap this up here. And yeah, all right.
03:17:19.38
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I Am am excited because I've never seen any of the Jaws sequels and so I'm very excited to go on this journey.
03:17:25.64
Clayton
Oh I'm excited for you.
03:17:26.99
mikechumpchange
Um, let's see how you feel after that. Let's see how you feel in about a month we'll see all right Clayton want you plug away where can listeners find you in your show and what's coming up.
03:17:30.38
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Ah, okay, we'll see.
03:17:39.60
Clayton
Ah, so if you search for men who like men who like movies were on all the podcasting platforms the pods on all the social media is if you just search for men who like men who like movies you'll find it. Ah, if you want to find me on the socials I'm mostly on Twitter in letterbox at just happy to see you number 2 litery lettertter you we just had an episode come out on the bay with the lovely aril herself and there's an episode on killer Joe and independence day coming up. So yeah.
03:18:09.16
mikechumpchange
Excellent Aria How about yourself.
03:18:14.16
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yeah, um, well keep an eye on cool's magazine this month so July the theme for July is body horror so we're going to get real weird with it over at ghoul's and we're going to do some gnarly stuff. So. Lots of free content coming up. There's also going to be some really good member content I'm particularly proud of an article I wrote that I'm not going to mention yet because it's not out yet, but that's just a little bit of sizzle and I think maybe it'll give me my first mean comment on the internet I don't know I'll say yeah so keep an eye.
03:18:27.79
mikechumpchange
But who.
03:18:42.78
mikechumpchange
Oh I can't imagine people being mean to you, You're like the nicest person.
03:18:43.23
Clayton
Oh.
03:18:47.10
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And cools magazine. Well thank you that is very kind. Um I feel like this article I wrote might piss some people off so we'll see we'll see I'll tell you what it is off Mike um.
03:18:55.42
mikechumpchange
Okay, okay, is it like yes, student don't loan Forgiveness is for the birds that what it is pay your debts is that what that is like going to be a hard right turn from.
03:18:56.73
Clayton
So he.
03:19:03.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
It is It is not. It is not.
03:19:06.40
Clayton
Um.
03:19:12.15
mikechumpchange
And unexpected that would be super weird. Yeah.
03:19:12.16
Ariel Powers_Schaub
That would be weird that would be there would be very strange content for ghoul's as well. Um, and you can follow me on other socials at Ari Underscore Hellrazor and um I post everything I do on my Twitter.
03:19:25.61
mikechumpchange
Excellent, all right. You can follow me at Mike Underscore snoonian at Twitter and at on Instagram at letterbox at Mike Chump change all 1 word the show go to our site pod and the pendulum.com that's where all of our back episodes are listed. They're easy to go through I think we're going to try to work on putting up like a contributors page for all of our co-hosts so you can very easily find their stuff as well. I would like to have that up by the end of July but definitely check out the site now and follow us over.
03:19:44.84
Clayton
Um I hope.
03:20:01.38
mikechumpchange
At pod and penned over on Twitter for now. Um, if you like what we've done here are a couple easy ways to support the show the free and easy way wherever you're getting your podcast make sure you rate us. Okay, if you're on Spotify give us a 5 star review. If you're on if you go into the pod in the pendulum site. There's actually review section. It'll allow you to very easily leave a 5 star review and then some kind words about why you like the show when you review the show and rate the show. It allows others to find us. I know that there are times like when I am interested in maybe listening to a podcast I'll read the reviews and if it sounds like something that's up my alley I will give that show a listen so you taking like a couple minutes to do that, especially on Apple Podcasts where I think we get about 2 thirds of our our listens. You rating us 5 stars and leaving us a review goes a long way to new listeners finding us so I would really appreciate that another way you can support us if you like what you've heard today today. It's 2023. We have a Patreon we had stopped it for a long time. Um, but now we're able to put some content back up there again. So if you go to patreon.com/pod and the pendulum and become a patron today. We have bonus content up there in June we did a bonus episode on the friends of Eddie Coyle a great heist movie.
03:21:32.83
mikechumpchange
Which may get repurposed later on for another show that I'm planning on launching at some point Ari and I spent almost an hour doing kind of like our own pics like what we're watching and listening to was a really fun conversation. Um, it was just ah, just a delight.
03:21:44.81
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Yes, it was.
03:21:49.90
mikechumpchange
In July we'll have another like full bonus episode up there I'm thinking we should maybe do a little like yeah have a few beers and watch sharknado that might be a fun little commentary all right. We'll pick a night and we'll definitely do that. Um, but.
03:22:01.70
Ariel Powers_Schaub
I'm so in I'm very in okay.
03:22:08.00
mikechumpchange
It allows like Ai would like to pay all of the people that have like contributed so much to keeping this show going like as far as I'm concerned if I can pay the hosting bill and the recording bill like everything else I just want to give to them. So if you can contribute a few bucks a month at the Patreon Site it goes a long way to like purchasing the books and the movies and all the research articles that like we tend to use when we do episodes like Jaws I could say like I started planning this episode in may I think is when I wrote my first note for it and. Hopefully that came through today that you've enjoyed it and you can support our efforts by going to patreon.com/thepartof the pendulum all right? good. Yeah.
03:22:57.90
Ariel Powers_Schaub
And there's a lot of different levels too like there's a $2 level that you can do and I think that that is pretty unique like not all shows have different ones that you can pick from so go at least go look at the different levels that there are.
03:23:04.33
mikechumpchange
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 2 and 5 tap out at 5 I think I might take down the $10 that's an old level. We'll keep it at 5 and we might do like a tip jar for a buck I don't know we'll see but thank you Ari I appreciate that.
03:23:24.68
Ariel Powers_Schaub
You welcome.
03:23:26.75
mikechumpchange
Um, all right I have talked out for the day so it is. It's been a really fun episode to do. We'll be back in I believe two weeks with a. Our next look at jaws with Johns too. We have a fun guest lined up for that episode. Maybe we'll throw a little bonus show in between who knows if you're listening to this on the fourth of July weekend. Hope you enjoyed listening to us with a grill fired up have a cold one in your hand and you're keeping. Safe in the waters. All right feels like we needed a bigger podcast for this episode and we definitely brought bye bye did just thread shoot me.
03:24:07.94
Clayton
Um, yeah, by.
03:24:08.82
Ariel Powers_Schaub
Smile you son of a pole.
