EYES WIDE SHUT

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None right Ho ho ho and Merry
Christmas, everyone.

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It's a tradition unlike any
other as part of the pendulum

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tradition as we break away every
Christmas from our traditional

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format of delivering a horror
movie franchise episode and

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instead we bring you a beloved
Christmas classic that drops

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here on December the 25th.
If you're giving us a listen and

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getting the Christmas scoop
stuffed after opening up what we

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hope are some wonderful physical
media gifts and presents, thank

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you for spending your holiday
morning with us.

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As always, I'm your host Mike,
Santa Claus Sununian and there

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is no one I would rather be
dressing up in a mask and cloak

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with while the incense goes.
And we, you know, we party naked

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then my Co hosts that are here
today.

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First up from the
disenfranchised podcast, Mr.

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Steven Foxworthy.
Steven, how are we?

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Doing great Mike, happy to be
here.

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I'll just be standing awkwardly
in the corner watching while you

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guys discuss this movie.
Excellent.

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That will be.
I'll come and I'll take you by

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the hand, and that will be in
the.

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Podcast that'll be.
Great lead you around.

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I just asked it if you do, you
get topless first, please and

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thank you.
Oh.

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Absolutely.
Why?

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Why not?
So it's the least.

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You can do.
It is the very least I can do

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and you know, like maybe I'll do
more as this goes on.

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Maybe I'll do more.
For those that are confused, our

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other Co host is the reason
we're talking about this movie

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today from the Bodies of Horror
podcast, the lovely Miss Nicole

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Goble.
Nicole, why don't you tell our

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listeners what they are in store
for this morning?

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Yeah, so we are going to be
talking about the Stanley

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Kubrick Final film Eyes Wide
Shut.

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So we are bringing you a
relationship messiness, some

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creepiness and some good old
fashioned orgy holiday fun.

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And we're going to talk about a
movie so fantastic, everybody.

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We'll get to it.
So we'll get to it.

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So I guess I'll start with this
question as we we break this

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down here.
My question for you both because

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like Nicole, you suggested this
and Steven, you gave like a very

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enthusiastic like absolutely,
let's do this.

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What makes Eyes Wide Shut a
Christmas movie?

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And I'm putting Christmas in
quotes like what makes it a

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festive holiday movie.
I guess the answer to that

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question, I'm going to answer
that question with another

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question, Mike, which is what do
we talk about when we talk about

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Christmas movies, like what?
Presents What do we?

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Want from a Christmas movie?
Well, I mean, Will Ferrell

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singing in the shower with a
manic Pixie dream girl.

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Ralphie shooting, right?
Ralphie shooting his eye out.

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Muppets.
You know, Jimmy Stewart running

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around, you know, asking why he
has so many damn kids.

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Like those are the things that
typically spring and die hard.

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You know, those are the and
Kevin McAllister basically

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indulging his sociopathic
tendencies and Gizmo, of course.

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So I would say that.
So that is the answer.

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And I feel like I've not
answered that question properly.

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Well, no, I just because I don't
know, the more I think about

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this, this eternal debate that
we culturally just seem to have

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when this time of year rolls
around is what is and is not a

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Christmas movie.
And it almost feels like it's

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dictated by sentimentality and
nostalgia.

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The movie has a healthy degree
of sentimentality or if it's

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something we're nostalgic for,
then it's a Christmas movie.

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But if it's not, then it's a
movie that takes place on

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Christmas but not officially a
Christmas film.

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And I think that's I find that
distinction specious at best,

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because at at that case, a
Christmas movie is only

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something that you feel.
But I would consider this every

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bit the Christmas movie that
It's a Wonderful Life is, for

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example.
I mean, similar themes of

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loneliness around the holidays
of 1, reconsidering and

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recontextualizing what one
really wants out of life and,

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and what in learning to live and
be content with what one has.

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I think both of those are
foundational.

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And if you really think about
it, there's only a little bit of

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It's a Wonderful Life that
actually takes place on

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Christmas.
The reason we consider that one

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a Christmas movie is because it
went into the public domain and

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got aired every year on TV
around Christmas.

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And that's why, again,
collectively, due to

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sentimentality and nostalgia,
that is a Christmas movie.

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But something like this, which
does something very similar in a

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much more modern contemporary
context, is is often brushed

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aside or not seen as Christmassy
enough, when in reality it has

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just about ever been as much to
do with Christmas as the other.

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Yeah, I'm going to also answer
again.

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Nicole Kidman naked would also
be like a wonderful Christmas

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present, that's what.
We all went under our tree this

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year.
Right.

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All of us do.
Like, that would be another.

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So yeah, I definitely like I you
know, I see the illusions here

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you're making in the note
comparing this to like a

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wonderful life and maybe in a
weird kind of fun house way.

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But I'm going to take I'm going
to take some Umbridge, like

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Umbridge has been taken.
So take as much as you need my

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say that just.
Leave some for the rest of us,

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OK?
Nicole, how about yourself?

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Because like, this was your
choice.

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So I'm really interested in
hearing your answer.

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Like what makes this like a
Christmas movie aside from the

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fact that it like, takes place
like around the holidays?

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I think that for me, you know,
when we think about the holidays

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outside of the, I think more
stereotypical like, oh, joy and

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celebrations and all of these
things, it's also a time of

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turmoil.
Relationships are often frayed

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because of a gazillion and
different reasons.

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I think there's, you know, a
societal pressure that as the

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year comes to an end, we have to
be able to figure out what our

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next steps are.
And I this movie is very much a

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journey about two people
figuring out like, are we on the

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path that we need to be on right
now?

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And I think that that's
something that resonates a lot

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in holiday movies.
It's about like, hey, you know,

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we're forced to be together
right now and we're going

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through these experiences
together right now.

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You know, are we are we doing
things right?

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And I also just you know, I also
just think of like tawdriness

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during the holidays too, like,
you know, all of the parties and

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the mixing and mingling that you
do and, you know, also wish

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fulfillment.
We give a lot during this

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season, but we also want to get
and I think that that's

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certainly on Tom cruises mind in
this film is like, okay, so how

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do I how do I start to feel that
I'm measuring up again to

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expectations and how do I get
that reassurance?

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So I don't know.
It hits a lot on philosophical

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reasons, but I think it's a
really, really good point that

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often the movies that resonate a
lot with us around the holidays

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have very little to actually do
with the holidays themselves.

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It's more about kind of the
immersion, the emotional flux

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that we all find ourselves in
this time of year.

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And I know for me, like, this
was a first time watch, like I

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had not seen this and in all
honesty, probably like would not

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have seen it if not like maybe
for a really long time.

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So I'm wondering like what both
of your like early experiences

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were with this movie?
Nicole, you start.

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Yeah, I saw it in theaters.
I'm a hardcore Kubrick fan, and

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so I was really excited about
this movie.

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You know, obviously no one
expected this to be Kubrick's

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last movie.
But then again, he also was not

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a director that was just
cranking them out all the time.

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He had some real rest time
between them.

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So, you know, you when someone
is getting older, you often

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think, hey, if they're not
making movies every so often, is

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this going to be their last
movie potentially?

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And I was really interested in
having a couple, you know, kind

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of take on this film.
This is obviously one of the

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first times that I think Tom
Cruise, for lack, I think maybe

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not Nicole Kidman, have really
worked with a director of kind

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of the baggage of Kubrick.
And so I was really interested

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how all of those dynamics would
fees together because Kubrick,

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as much as I love him, he is
what I call my problematic

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faith.
He's kind of a terrible person

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in a lot of ways.
But, you know, I think that

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there's also a lot of people who
will say, yeah, the man was

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terrible, but there was kind of
a method to it.

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Like he did it because he knew
what he wanted to get and he

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wasn't going to to let anyone be
comfortable without that.

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And so I don't know, I I was
really excited.

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So yeah, I saw it in theaters
and I actually saw it right, I

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think right before I saw a
Magnolia.

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So because it came out right
about the same time.

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Yeah, yeah, OK.
And Steven, how about yourself?

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So I was in high school when
this movie came out and as, as

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I've mentioned maybe once or
twice on the podcast before,

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grew up in a fairly conservative
religious household.

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So this was not something that
was on my radar beyond the, Oh

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my God, they're naked on the
poster kind of thing, which I,

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you know, as a horny teenager,
thought was very cool.

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And, you know, Nicole Kidman has
always just kind of been, you

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know, one of one of my
favorites.

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She is, to be clear, I love her
for her talent and but she's

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also gorgeous.
Let's just be very clear.

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She's very talented and very
beautiful.

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And I hold those two things in
in harmony.

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But that said, I didn't watch
this in full until I was, I

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mean, I had seen pieces of it
before, but I didn't see it in

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full until I was until the
pandemic actually, which is I

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feel like my constant answer on
this podcast.

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When did you first get the
pandemic?

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Because I watched like 400
movies that year.

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I had nothing else to do.
I just watched movies.

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So this was a Christmas watch
for me.

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And I just remember being kind
of completely flabbergasted by

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it.
Like, I knew it was good.

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Like I knew it was very good,
but I didn't quite know what to

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make of it.
And I've watched it.

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This is, I think, my third watch
through of it.

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I, I, every time I watch it, I
get a little more out of it.

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I, I glean a little more.
I had, I come away with a

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slightly better understanding.
And so, yeah, any excuse.

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So I was finishing it tonight
before we started recording and

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my partner finished work and
she's like, I don't think I've

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ever seen this movie.
And then we had a nice long chat

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about kind of the the sexual
mores of this time period and

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why this is probably the last of
the erotic thrillers that that

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came out in the 90s.
Yeah.

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So, yeah, lots of talk about,
lots of uncover, lots of unpack.

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And I'm looking.
Forward to it.

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I imagine Gen.
Z would have like a lot to say

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about the this.
Everybody have to be naked in

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this movie.
Like, I don't want to, you know,

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like I imagined there'd be a lot
to say.

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Yeah.
This was like a again, like a

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first time watch.
I've now watched it twice

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because I do like to go through
things a couple times before

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before, even if it's something I
know really well, let alone

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something like this where it's
just like you can't really

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digest it on just like 1
viewing.

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And I'm really excited you guys
brought this one to the table.

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I could be partly because like I
need help understanding Stanley

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Kubrick and I've I've watched
about a half dozen of his films

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at this point.
So it's not like I'm a novice.

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Like I, you know, the first
thing I would ever seen by him

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would have been like a Clockwork
Orange, which is like a early 20

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something like really loved it
as a 40 something.

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It hits.
It plays much, much differently.

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Lolita, The Shining, obviously.
Actually, The Shining would have

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been the first thing I watched.
I saw that at way too young an

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age and like the Shining to me,
plays this camp more than

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anything else.
Full Metal Jacket.

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And my favorite that I've seen
from him is probably The

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Killing, which is the Lee
Stanley Kubrick Kubrick film.

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I mean, it's really is like it's
unlike anything else.

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Like out of the other.
I still haven't watched Doctor

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Strangelove in 2001, even though
I own both.

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And I feel like I need to kind
of, I know, especially with our

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patron St.
George C Scott, right,

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prominent, featuring so
prominently.

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So those will be like 2026
watches.

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But like I just find him really
unapproachable as an as a

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director.
Like I just, I find it really

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hard to engage with his work.
And I'm really trying with this

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one.
And there's I think a lot of

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good things to take away from
it.

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But I also find myself like
vehemently disagree with what

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he's maybe saying in this.
And also I find his methods

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baffling.
And I'll say it right now, like

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I'll come right out and ask when
I asked this on the slack, like,

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is Stanley Kubrick like a a bad
director?

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And I'm putting bad in quotes
like, but is he a bad director

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that makes great movies?
Because we're going to kind of

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talk about this here.
If you need like 95 takes of a

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person walking through a door to
get it right, like you're doing

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something wrong.
If you need to terrorize your

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cast in order to get it right,
like I just think you're doing

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something wrong.
Like you don't need to do that

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as an artist to and Nicole, you
look floored right?

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Now imagine if like I flubbed
the opening of this podcast,

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right?
I flubbed it twice before kind

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of getting it.
Imagine if I did that to myself

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95 times.
I'd be a shitty.

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Podcaster at that point and.
I think that this just speaks to

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you can't really separate.
I I, I totally get what you're

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saying about if he a bad
director who made interesting

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work, right air quotes bad.
But I think that again,

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everything that he does is very
intentional.

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I mean, a lot of his films are
based on books and he's really,

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I think, taking these books and
exploring them in ways that a

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lot of people don't.
And This is why I like with

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Lolita.
Yes, Lolita.

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We could do 8 podcasts about
that and the text and the film

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adaptations and the societal
implications.

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But I really like his take on it
because he really just wanted to

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make an ass out of Humphrey's.
He's like, I just want him to be

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kind of just this blatant ass.
You don't think the book does

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that?
It does, but a lot of people

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miss it.
A lot of people latch on to like

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this, oh, this is just this guy
pining for this girl because she

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reminds him of this past that he
had to where Kubrick is like,

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Nah, it's a little more than
that, y'all, And let's get real

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weird with it.
And I appreciate that.

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Same thing with The Shining.
Like, you know, a lot of people

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when that movie came out, they
hated Shelly Duvall's

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performance.
They said this is just so

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ridiculous, so over the top.
And now you look at it and it's

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a piece of art because he knew
how to get exactly what he

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wanted from her and it was
horrific and atrocious.

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OK, my counter to that would be
if you need to go to that

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extreme to get that from your
performer, you're, I don't know,

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lacking some basic human
understanding.

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I don't know, like there's
something this is like this is

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the therapist and me talking
right now.

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Like I just wouldn't Like I
would say go no contact with

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Stanley Kubrick if he was here.
But I get what you're saying.

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Like you're not.
I mean, like everything you're

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saying is right about like the
end result, but it's like the

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getting there that no.
And I think you make a really,

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really good point about, you
know, have to go through those

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hoops.
What's like, is it worth it?

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Like what?
What is that saying about you

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having that clear vision, be
able to communicate that to the

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actors and the crew so that
everything is clear?

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But I think I just based on like
interviews and stuff that I've

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read and have seen of him, he
would be the first to say that

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he struggles with kind of human
emotion.

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I mean, he would be like dad
checks, like he's really not a a

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people person.
And I think that that's kind of

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what makes his films
interesting.

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It almost feels like an alien
trying to figure out human

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dynamics and relationships and
what they mean and these really

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complex stories.
And I, I really get a lot out of

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that.
I mean, The Clockwork Orange to

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me, like you said, you watch it
when you're younger and you get

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1 read of it.
But then when you watch it now,

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I really do get the vibe of like
Alex being like, not of this

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planet and kind of being like
this extraterrestrial being

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like, what is the human
condition?

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What is violence?
How are we conditioned?

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Nature versus nurture.
Asking all these questions.

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Yeah.
And I know Steven, like you had

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a take on that question as well
when I post it out there.

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Yeah, I there's so much more to
directing than working with

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actors, right to start.
And as far as visual stylists

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go, Kubrick is one of the best.
He's such a, such an incredible

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visual stylist, but he's really
bad as, as we've mentioned,

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really bad with people.
And I, I think a lot of it may

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also stem from and, and there's
been a lot of discourse within

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the past several years, rightly
so, about the myth of the

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brilliant male mind and the
brilliant male artist and the

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shit that we let those white
males get away with in pursuit

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of their art.
And I think a lot of that has

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been reckoned with recently.
And I think Kubrick has

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posthumously come under a lot of
fire once, you know, shit like

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the Duval thing or, you know,
the making Tom Cruise or Harvey

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Keitel walk through a door 95
times, Like all of that has kind

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of come into question about
Kubrick's place.

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And I think a lot of it has to
do with outmoded views of power.

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Outmoded and and and a deep
insecurity on Kubrick's part

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with regard to his own ability
and his own talent and his own

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power, as it were.
And that comes as a means not

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just of get it.
It comes as a means of

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exercising that power in pursuit
of the art, I think.

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And so, you know, when you, when
you hear this and, and, and

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there's again, there's so much
of Kubrick that we have to hold

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in tension because while he's
terrorizing Shelley Duvall on

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the set of The Shining, he is
doing everything in his power to

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00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,160
protect Danny Lloyd from any of
the horrific elements of that

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00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,520
shoot.
And you have to hold those two

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things.
And I don't think 1 negates or,

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you know, cancels out the other.
We have to hold he's a human

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being and human beings are
creatures of inconsistencies.

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And so we have to hold those
inconsistencies in tension when

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we talk about him as as an
artist.

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And so I get I don't think it
makes him a a bad director.

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There are so many things that
he's good at.

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This one particular area was not
his strong suit.

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And unfortunately, I don't think
he handled it well.

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I don't think it's so much that
he's a bad director.

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And I think I said this on the
slack so much as he's just a bad

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human being, right?
Like he's not very good at being

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human, particularly when it
comes to empathy toward his

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00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,080
fellow man.
He doesn't know how to set

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boundaries like there was.
I think Spielberg talked about

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how Kubrick wanted him to
install a fax machine in his

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00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,200
bedroom so he get ahold of him
like at all hours of the day.

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And I think Spielberg's response
was like, no, which good for

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00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,240
him.
We'll talk about response.

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00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,120
Let's be.
Right, which is really the right

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00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:55,360
response thing.
I I kind of just wrote in my

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notes and I think we'll talk
about it when we talk about

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00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,560
either the movie itself or like
how it came together.

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00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,520
Is the idea of like, well, he
knows exactly what he wants.

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00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,320
And my question is, does he,
Because what comes up like

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posthumously with Kubrick is
like he didn't especially with

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this movie in particular, he
didn't quite, and it took him

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00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,120
like more than 30 years to crack
this.

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00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:22,720
Like this was like a decades
long, which we'll talk about.

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He doesn't seem to know what he
wants to do when he's doing the

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00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,160
script at 1st.
And I think part of that is like

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you have a writer that is
pumping up his own tires a lot

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more and trying to deflate
Stanley's in the process.

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But then like when we talk about
the fabled orgy scene, people

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00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,200
going to like, it didn't seem
like he even wanted to do it and

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00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,480
he had no idea how to do it to
the point where they're like,

377
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,480
why don't we just have Tony
Scott come in?

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00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:56,360
Which now I want a Tony Scott
cocaine fueled orgy scene, which

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00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:02,680
would be fucking amazing.
I mean, that would be talk about

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00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,800
flying into the danger zone with
Tom Cruise and that would be

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00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,760
something else, I think.
Though you mentioned something

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that's really important to note,
which is, you know, this had

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00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:18,400
been a long, you know, kind of
dream of Kubrick's to make this

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00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,080
movie in a long process over
decades.

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00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,760
And you know, nothing about
Stanley moved fast.

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00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:32,800
And so when you have all of that
time to sit with this idea, to

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00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:37,320
sit with this text, your ideas
are going to change with it.

388
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,320
You're going to read it again
and you're going to be like, oh,

389
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,640
wait, I kind of dug this more or
I'm kind of pulling this out.

390
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,320
And now maybe this should really
be what the film is about.

391
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,400
And you can't, you can't stop
yourself from doing that.

392
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,280
And so when it comes to, you
know, maybe when that idea first

393
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,800
struck, Stanley was like a very
clear idea, this is what I want

394
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:05,360
to do 15 years later, Very clear
idea.

395
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:07,640
This is what I want to do now.
It's a little bit different.

396
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,680
And you know, I think probably
too, you know, he was someone

397
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:16,160
who was older and probably
wrestling with like I think all

398
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,360
directors do.
What is going to be my legacy?

399
00:24:20,360 --> 00:24:24,600
Like what what are people going
to remember from my work and

400
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,080
what are people going to
remember from my last work?

401
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,200
Because unfortunately, whether
it's good or bad, that's what's

402
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,480
going to sit with people
probably first and foremost.

403
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,160
And then it's like, all right,
well, let's go and explore the

404
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,560
back catalog.
And so I think, you know,

405
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:44,520
there's so many different things
kind of at play that of course

406
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,160
Stanley would never really
pontificate on.

407
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,320
But I think that it's probably a
little bit of that.

408
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:55,840
I know that if I sit more than,
you know, an hour, like writing

409
00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,360
at a podcast script, I will go
back and I will change it 60

410
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,040
different times.
And then I will just be mad at

411
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:07,160
myself and say I'm going back to
the original because that was my

412
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,640
hot takes and what was feeling
good in the gut and.

413
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:17,160
I think of like the comparison I
make is Alfred Hitchcock, who we

414
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,160
talk about problematic faves and
we're going to tackle our first

415
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,400
Hitchcock movie to start the new
year, which I'm really excited

416
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,000
to do.
And I think like before

417
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,920
Hitchcock like got into the
director's chair and yelled

418
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,400
action.
Every single bit of minutia was

419
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,280
like figured out and put in
front of him to the degree that

420
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,360
like he was actually bored with
filming.

421
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,280
He was like, and he and I think
about a guy who in like a four

422
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,440
year period churns out rear
window Vertigo North by

423
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:55,440
Northwest Psycho like that is
just like tosses them off and

424
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,800
like what a five year period
between 55 and 60 and you know,

425
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,240
four of the greatest films ever
made and whose influence we

426
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,000
still see to this day.
And it was almost like nothing

427
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,560
to him.
Like Psycho was kind of a joke.

428
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,360
He he was offended that people
liked psycho so much.

429
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:16,960
He's like, this is a piece of
crap.

430
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,760
Like what are you like?
This is a little black and white

431
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:21,880
cheapie.
Like, what are you people like

432
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,040
it to the point where he had
researchers like try to get back

433
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,920
to him with like what made that
work?

434
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,520
So he could try to recapture
that because it made him very,

435
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,280
very rich as well, which, but by
the time like Hitchcock would

436
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,920
get behind the the, the, the the
lad, he'd be like, great, I know

437
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:41,400
everything I'm doing at this
point.

438
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,320
He didn't waste time.
And I guess that's like 2 polar

439
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,680
opposite opposites.
And you know, Hitchcock was very

440
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,160
problematic in his own right.
So, but we'll save, I guess,

441
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,120
that discussion for Psycho.
What will we get to it in a

442
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:56,000
couple of weeks, which I'm
really excited.

443
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,400
Should we dive into the making
of this movie?

444
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,120
Let's do it.
This should be fun.

445
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280
So my first note, and we've kind
of talked it about a little bit.

446
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,840
Stanley Kubrick.
What a giant weirdo.

447
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,920
Who would like to espouse?
I mean, he I wouldn't put him

448
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,760
quite in Dang ass freak cat
territory, but like he's close.

449
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,360
He's he's adjacent.
Like again, like I think Nicole

450
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:22,000
put it really well, like he
feels like an alien trying to

451
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,320
like figure out what life is and
you know, you have here, like

452
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,560
when he's not working, he's
pretty reclusive.

453
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,160
And that was kind of always part
of the mystery of Kubrick is

454
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:35,760
like, who is this dude?
Like all he does is just send

455
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,520
faxes to people.
Like that was kind of what he

456
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,080
did later in his life.
He's he would just get these

457
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,560
ideas in the middle of the night
and wake up and just fire off

458
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,880
faxes to like all these people.
Like he directs a brilliant

459
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,880
movie, Barry Lyndon, and the
lead of that movie is so

460
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,560
enamoured of him that he just
quits acting to become his his

461
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,040
assistant for the rest of his
life.

462
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,720
Like he's Kubrick's assistant
right up to the day he dies.

463
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,680
Leon Vitale.
And I'm sure we will mention at

464
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,080
some point in this episode, like
it just like the myth

465
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,520
surrounding the man is so
incredible.

466
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,480
But to look at him, he's just
kind of this weird little guy.

467
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,040
Like I think there was a HBO
movie with Geoffrey Rush called

468
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,520
The Life and Death of Peter
Sellers.

469
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,920
And Kubrick is played by Stanley
Tucci and you're and he just

470
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,200
kind of plays him as just as
kind of this little weirdo.

471
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,400
And you're just like, this is
this is insane.

472
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:29,120
Like who is this guy?
And that's, that's kind of the

473
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:33,160
Kubrick magic is, is you, you're
forced to focus on his art

474
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,000
because you know almost nothing
of the man himself.

475
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,240
And that's, that's kind of the,
the whole notion that I've heard

476
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,960
other actors espouse, including
a, a, a very problematic person

477
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,400
who used to be a fave Kevin
Spacey.

478
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,880
He's like, I try to show you as
little of myself as possible, so

479
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,440
it all comes through in the
character, when in reality the

480
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,840
reason he wasn't showing you
much is because he was a fucking

481
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,520
criminal.
And what's funny is like, I feel

482
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,400
like Kevin Spacey is always
showing himself right when he's

483
00:28:58,400 --> 00:28:59,400
playing.
Like Kevin.

484
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,640
Like, you have such a poor read
on yourself, honey, darling,

485
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,320
Like you are so coming.
Like you're playing, you're

486
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:09,480
playing a smarmy douchebag in
every movie you're in.

487
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,000
And guess what?
You're a smarmy douchebag.

488
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,920
Yeah, But from what you read,
like to meet with Stanley was to

489
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,320
be summoned.
Like, he didn't come to you.

490
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,200
And I will say, like, respect to
that.

491
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,720
Like, he didn't come to you.
You came to him in a helicopter

492
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,880
to his private estate, which he
left the United States after

493
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,960
making Spartacus because he was
like, man, I'm done with

494
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,360
Hollywood.
This isn't like, this system

495
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000
doesn't work for me.
I'm going to go do my thing.

496
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,800
And I know we're saying like
recluse, like he didn't see

497
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,080
people, like he wasn't a Howard
Hughes type.

498
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,240
Like he and his wife, they
entertained a lot.

499
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,160
They didn't necessarily go out.
But when you see their estate,

500
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,640
it's about the size of a small
town and.

501
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,960
Fucking palatial.
Yeah, it's pretty incredible.

502
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,520
So but they would like routinely
have people over and see would

503
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:10,720
entertain them there.
He wouldn't fly, hated driving

504
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:16,360
and from what I read, and again
this is conjecture, by the end

505
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:20,120
of it he wouldn't go over 35
miles an hour in a car and by

506
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,560
the end of his life he was
wearing a crash helmet when he

507
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,080
would ride passenger which I.
Feel so seen.

508
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:34,520
I feel so seen.
Like true, like it's all true.

509
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,640
It's all fact.
And yeah, flying sucks.

510
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,600
I did it today.
Driving sucks.

511
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,960
Also did that today. 2 of 10
don't recommend.

512
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,040
I like driving.
Wearing a crash helmet.

513
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:54,560
Yeah, I I rode with my niece.
It was an interesting scenario.

514
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:58,080
So I, I feel like he's hitting
the marks there.

515
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,000
But yeah, I, I think it is worth
noting that yes, he was

516
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,600
reclusive and more, I would say
introverted.

517
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,720
He didn't really want to play by
other people's kind of social

518
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:13,920
rules.
He wanted to create them and be

519
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:18,480
on the turf where he could lay
kind of the foundation.

520
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,720
And so when I, I think that I
really love the note about

521
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,600
people being summoned because it
did feel like if he like, if he

522
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:34,040
called upon you that you were
kind of in his fold and that was

523
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,760
something that, you know, you're
not going to have a lot of

524
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,720
people say was a bad thing.
I mean, even later in life,

525
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:45,760
Shelley Duvall said like, hey,
if it went down.

526
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,440
But I respect the man, the
hardcore.

527
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,680
I understand the artistry.
And to be in his presence was

528
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,640
really, really beneficial to me
in a lot of different ways.

529
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,280
But you can't like, it's you
can't really extract those two

530
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,360
things.
But yeah, I, he's, I think

531
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000
that's why, like the
documentary, I think that is

532
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,880
voiced over by Tom Cruise that
came out right after his death

533
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,880
of Life in Pictures.
It's just basically like a look

534
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,720
back at these vignettes of him
in filmmaking mode because

535
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,560
that's really just how people
knew him.

536
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,080
Yeah.
They didn't know Stanley the

537
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,680
man.
They knew Stanley Kubrick

538
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:29,960
filmmaker.
Yeah.

539
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,440
He was really He's the kind of
guy who let a lot of people.

540
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,560
In no either he was like I just,
I wish I could let people know

541
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,960
him.
I'm a Juggalo, but he just

542
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,600
wouldn't.
Like he was like Stanley Kubrick

543
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,080
was a Juggalo, but he just
didn't want to let people know

544
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,840
that that would have been I.
God.

545
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,960
Think that would have been?
One of the weirdest things that

546
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360
I think we found out after he
died was that he would have Fago

547
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:52,600
shipped.
Yeah.

548
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,720
He used to England on the
regular just so that he could

549
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:57,320
keep up with that Juggalo
lifestyle.

550
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:04,040
Yeah, that would have been so.
Oh, God.

551
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,760
Here we.
I've sent it off the rails.

552
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,800
I apologize.
So he was married three times.

553
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,560
In 1948, he marries his high
school sweetheart, Toba Mets.

554
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,280
They divorced after about three
years.

555
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:25,760
In 1952, he marries like an
Austrian born dancer, Ruth

556
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,680
Sabatka.
And I'm sorry, Sabatka, thank

557
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,560
you.
And not only was she's a dancer,

558
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,200
she was kind of a New York
socialite.

559
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,280
It seems like this is when he
kind of gets introduced to a lot

560
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,800
of the power players, like she's
responsible for making

561
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,800
introductions and getting his
art out there.

562
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,840
But they also divorced.
It didn't seem like a happy

563
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,440
marriage.
And then in 1958, he married a

564
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:57,520
German actress and painter,
Christian Harlan, and they

565
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,160
remain married into his death.
Like that was the love of his

566
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,520
land.
Her paintings actually are the

567
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,160
ones that like hang in eyes Wide
Shut, like she does that.

568
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,840
So and I think she's still in
charge of like the Kubrick

569
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,679
estate as well.
So but you know, it's and you

570
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,560
see this in a lot of his films,
like men who don't necessarily

571
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,239
understand women.
And like the your point to

572
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,520
Nicole, you mentioned Shelley
Duvall, like it seems like years

573
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,560
later, like she was even came
out and said like, stop telling

574
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,360
my story.
Like, she's like, the experience

575
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,920
was not nearly as bad as
everyone's making it out to be.

576
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,320
Didn't ruin like, Duvall would
say it didn't ruin her.

577
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,840
There was like a myth for a long
time that like, she did The

578
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,320
Shining and then had a breakdown
and that was it.

579
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,360
And like, no, she went on to
become, like, an acclaimed

580
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,679
producer of children's
television, where she won a

581
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,760
number of Emmys.
Like she went on to have like,

582
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,320
still a pretty storied career.
Yeah.

583
00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:00,600
And I don't think, you know, to
that, you know, the quit telling

584
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:06,640
my story, especially as a woman,
like, Hey, stop putting all of

585
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,400
these things into my narrative
because I'm not the one that's

586
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,280
telling it.
And so I I respect that.

587
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:21,600
And at the same time, you know,
even at its most kindest take,

588
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,880
he was still just a really
blatant asshole.

589
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,040
Yeah.
And I think, but at the same

590
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,640
time, the thing that I always
wrestle with Kubrick is that he

591
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,240
would be like, yes, I am an
asshole, but please look at my

592
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:44,320
movie.
And I like to me, I it kind of

593
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,920
contradicts.
Like I try to live my life with

594
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:52,080
the motto of don't live your
life like a Sinner and expect to

595
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,800
be remembered as a St.
It was something that my.

596
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:59,840
No, that's beautiful.
My grandpa always would say, and

597
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:03,760
I feel like Kubrick was really
brushing up against that to be

598
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,840
like, I'm gonna do both, and
here's how.

599
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,480
Like, don't think about me.
Don't think about the Sinner.

600
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,720
Just know that the Sinner is
there, but don't think about it.

601
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,240
Think about the artist.
Think about what the Sinner is

602
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,680
doing on his off time, his
hobby.

603
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:25,400
And yeah, like, it's cool,
right?

604
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:31,680
You like this story?
I I just love just just how

605
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,720
weird he is.
I remember we had a movie

606
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,920
marathon.
My friend Brett does movie

607
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,480
marathons fairly frequently, and
they're all themed and they're

608
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,040
all day long.
And in 2012, we did the

609
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:50,520
apocalypse as it was the
apocalypse, in case anyone

610
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,680
didn't remember.
Yeah, we lived through an

611
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,280
apocalypse Part 8.
We sure did.

612
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,760
And so we watched one of the
movies that were part of the

613
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,400
lineup was this Doctor
Strangelove.

614
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,280
And I had recommended it.
I was really excited.

615
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,000
And it was the movie that
everyone took their break.

616
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600
Everyone's like, yeah, we're
going to go get food.

617
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:17,320
We're going to go make a store
run, go get some more booze.

618
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:24,640
Hey, there's a there's a ping
pong table over there and I was

619
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:25,880
pointed.
In your friends, Nicole.

620
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,480
This is so good and so
interesting.

621
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,080
And so I just like how he just
didn't really give a shit about

622
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,600
what other people thought about
him.

623
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,600
He just wanted to say this is
what I think about humanity and

624
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,640
people and how they interact and
the strangeness.

625
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,840
Yeah.
Kind of a bleak outlook overall

626
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,000
for for a lot of his
filmography, but I think but

627
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,400
again, I think that is what kind
of helps him to form into the

628
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,760
artist that he is and the artist
that he becomes.

629
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,440
And the fact that he was allowed
to be because of his past

630
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,880
successes, because of stuff like
Full Metal Jacket and Doctor

631
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,440
Strangelove, he's allowed to be
so uncompromising to the point

632
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,680
of what feels like psychological
torture in a lot of in a lot of

633
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,000
situation.
And one may classify as

634
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,120
psychological torture, like, you
know, that that kind of becomes

635
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,920
his stock and trade by this
point in his career.

636
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,520
I think where I wrestle
sometimes in terms of how he had

637
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,480
like this much unchecked power
was it wasn't like all of his

638
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,960
movies were financial successes
right out of the gate and even

639
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,280
critical successes right out of
the gate.

640
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,520
Like there's, you know, his
movie before this, which had

641
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,120
been, I mean, it's 13 years in
between films.

642
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,760
But he does Full Metal Jacket,
which is almost a comeback movie

643
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,440
for him in that it does like 130
million and it like quadruples

644
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,360
its budget.
But The Shining didn't even

645
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:07,880
break even and at the time was
not like a well reviewed movie.

646
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,760
Like if I remember correctly,
like Barry Lyndon is not

647
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,280
necessarily like a commercial
success and he's like so far in

648
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,880
between.
So it's I think I have the.

649
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,280
Fucking masterpiece.
I love OK.

650
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,200
So much.
I haven't seen it.

651
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:26,320
And again, like I, I have like
watched a half dozen of his

652
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:30,200
films and I I don't want to say
I don't like I do like I might

653
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,960
love a Clockwork Orange.
I do like really like the

654
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,640
shining.
I love, love, love, love the

655
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,760
killing like it has one of the
best last lines ever in a film.

656
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,960
And I think this is going to be
a movie I come to love like

657
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,360
right.
So upon second watch, I'm like,

658
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,640
I appreciate this more.
Like I can see adding this to

659
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,960
the rotation.
And you know, I don't know,

660
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,880
maybe we planned like an Eyes
Wide Shut night, one night with

661
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,600
friends, who knows?
But like, I struggle.

662
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:02,720
I don't embrace his work like I
do like, say, a Martin Scorsese

663
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,720
where I think what I think.
And it's not just Scorsese's

664
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,720
films.
Like I think of that cameo he

665
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:12,280
does in Curb Your Enthusiasm
when Larry David is like, do you

666
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:13,800
even know what the fuck you're
doing?

667
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,840
And like, I could never see, I
could see Spielberg doing that

668
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,680
cameo, but not Stanley Kubrick,
if that makes sense.

669
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,720
And maybe that's just like a me
thing because.

670
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:27,040
He won't leave England.
I mean, that's but no, I I

671
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:28,240
agree.
I think there is a self

672
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:32,080
seriousness to Kubrick and I
think that shows up in his work

673
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,040
very often.
I think the only time, and I

674
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,200
think the only time he really
showcases his sense of humor is

675
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,640
Doctor Strangelove.
He's got a fucking weird sense

676
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,200
of humor, if that movie is any
indication.

677
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,840
To be clear, I love it.
And that's another one of those

678
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,120
movies that the more I watch it,
the more I love it.

679
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,040
And I already loved it, but
like, it's just kind of one of

680
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,560
those that grows on me all the
time.

681
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,080
Brian would argue that The
Shining and Eyes Wide Shut are

682
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:02,600
meant to be seen as comedies as
well, and I don't know about

683
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,120
that so much.
I don't know if The Shining is

684
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,240
meant to be funny.
We'll get to The Shining one

685
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,320
day.
We'll do do the both Shining

686
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:15,040
versions and we'll do Doctor
Sleep one day, I think.

687
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:16,880
Like we'll have with the
Mcgarris, but yeah.

688
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,360
I mean, it's not good, but we
have to do it as part of the.

689
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,560
I understand.
You're in a you know, I think

690
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,520
you're mad at Mcgarris because
his hair is fucking lovely.

691
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,000
I mean, look, I don't have a bad
head of hair when I actually

692
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,600
take care of it.
I just don't take care of.

693
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,920
It OK and I would rather.
Shave it.

694
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,560
Which is probably why I don't.
Take care of it.

695
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,160
My daughter told me today that I
have like a really nice head of

696
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,880
hair and that was really sweet.
All right, moving on.

697
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:46,280
The original novella written in
1926 by Arthur Schnitzler, Dream

698
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,600
Story.
Has any either of you?

699
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,360
I've never read this of either
of you.

700
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:56,080
Nicole, if you read this OK, it
pretty much follows the book

701
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,760
except in like the action is in
Mardi Gras or like the carnival

702
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:06,840
carnival season.
And it's a Doctor Who gets the

703
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,640
shocking discovery that like
shock among shocks, his wife is

704
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,600
had sexual fantasies about other
men.

705
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,680
So he wanders the streets of
Carnival in like a dream, like

706
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,680
haze.
And it's like a novella.

707
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,720
It's 120 pages.
And, like, the action of Eyes

708
00:42:23,720 --> 00:42:26,680
Wide Shut for the most part,
like follows the book.

709
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,040
And it's like rife with a lot of
Freudian illusions.

710
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,400
And I'm not a Freudian
therapist.

711
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,520
I don't really truck with a lot
of his theories.

712
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:40,600
Like, I will leave that to
others, you know, like, yeah.

713
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:46,400
But it's, it's a book that
Kubrick gets like in like 1960

714
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:51,600
or so and he like, immediately
wants to make this like, he gets

715
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,160
the rights for it.
And like we said, it's a long

716
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,760
road to adaptation.
He basically gave this book to

717
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,920
every single writer that he ever
met and was like, can you crack

718
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:03,920
this for me?
Crack.

719
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:04,960
This.
Yeah.

720
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,040
And when they would give them
his ideas, he would be like, no,

721
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,560
I don't want to do that.
And they're like, well, that's

722
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,320
cool.
Thank you for wasting my time.

723
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,560
Appreciate that.
Anyway.

724
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,240
Yeah, thanks buddy.
I think the, I can't think of

725
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:20,120
her name, but she worked on AI
for him.

726
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,480
When he gave, she was like doing
like some script polishing on

727
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,040
AI.
And when he gave her the book

728
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,000
and she's like, yeah, I'm not
really into it.

729
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:32,440
He never spoke with her again.
He completely caught her out of

730
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,160
his life like.
Sounds about right.

731
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,520
She's like, great.
So, and I think it's, it's fair

732
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,000
to say like we've talked about,
like Kubrick was like

733
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,760
notoriously insecure around
women and sex and.

734
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,000
I think chosen this movie
honestly.

735
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,440
Yeah.
Oh, absolutely.

736
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,040
The.
Fact that this movie is about

737
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,720
and the book itself is about a
guy who just can't handle the

738
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:57,680
fact that his wife did horny
sometimes yeah like that's kind

739
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,520
of like that speaks and I.
You know, I mentioned earlier

740
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,600
insecurities with Kubrick with
regard to his own talent and

741
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,360
ability.
I think that can extend far

742
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,600
beyond just that.
Maybe he's insecure in a lot of

743
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,560
other areas as.
Well, who I I think from like

744
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,040
what doing some reading the
thing with Kubrick is like what

745
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:19,200
fascinated him was like what
other men could do that he

746
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,520
himself would find like
unfathomable.

747
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,680
Like he could not picture
himself acting in such a way.

748
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,600
So he wanted to like really like
hyper analyze the motives of

749
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:34,920
like other men in particular.
I don't think it's that women

750
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,200
didn't interest him.
I think it's just like women

751
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,440
confounded him to such a degree
that he's like, I'm not even

752
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,080
going to bother.
But I, I honestly think like,

753
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,760
and I think at one point like
Christian, like when he was

754
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,600
like, Hey, should I adopt this
book?

755
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,920
She like flat out told him,
like, you're way too insecure to

756
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,160
make this book.
Like this will ruin our marriage

757
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,200
if you try because you will
bring all of your own shit into

758
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,840
it.
And read far which it'll cause

759
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,040
massive problems.
So she was like discouraging him

760
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:07,800
like early on, like you do not
want to do this.

761
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,840
Seems like she had a better feel
for like she she was more aware

762
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:13,840
of who he was than he was.
Yeah.

763
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:16,200
You know, Mark of a good, good
partner, I suppose.

764
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,480
But yeah.
OK, OK, we'll keep going here.

765
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:26,040
So in the 70s, Kubrick picks up
the idea again, thinking like he

766
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,000
originally wanted to make, like,
a raunchy comedy for this.

767
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,640
Like, you just do it as like, a
Doctor Strangelove style comedy.

768
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,800
And then that idea goes away in
the 70s.

769
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:42,000
He's like, what if we put Woody
Allen in the lead and it wasn't.

770
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,600
Yeah.
And it was like, And that idea

771
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,320
quickly, like, you fell by.
He's like, well, you could

772
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,160
understand why Woody Allen's
wife would cheat on him

773
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,720
basically.
Like he's like realizes he needs

774
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:57,760
someone who's not like this how
he sees himself really.

775
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,400
Like he wanted Woody Allen
because he saw a lot of himself

776
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,920
in him.
So then the idea shifts like

777
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,440
what if we just do an out and
out farce and we tell you,

778
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,520
Nicole, we're just talking about
like some of the what didn't

779
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,840
happen with this.
So basically we came down to the

780
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,240
conclusion that like Stanley
Kubrick, he only, he makes

781
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:20,160
movies about people's behaviors
that he himself could not engage

782
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,440
in and found like really
unfathomable.

783
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,400
So he was trying to work his
shit through that.

784
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,760
And if you want to add to that,
feel free.

785
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,360
Yeah, I mean, I think again, it
speaks to the alien nature of

786
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,360
Kubrick of life.
Let me let me explore this by

787
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,480
this story and let me let me put
these pieces together and see

788
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,200
what happens.
And I think that's just

789
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:48,480
something that's really
fascinating to me, particularly

790
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,920
about this movie is like how
long he had set with it, what it

791
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:58,920
was saying about relationships
and how he, I don't know, like

792
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,440
you just kind of want to like
pick his brain and be like, what

793
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:06,120
was the ticking piece to this
for you?

794
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,600
Right?
Like what set this off?

795
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,000
What's?
The antithesis of right what you

796
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,440
know, because he's intentionally
like engaging with that which he

797
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,760
does not know as a means of
dissecting it and attempting to

798
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,960
understand it.
And again, as someone who we've

799
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,880
mentioned is kind of semi
reclusive, hard to know, maybe a

800
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,720
bit introverted.
I think he's fascinated by human

801
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:30,400
behavior and what would make a
person do this thing, this thing

802
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:35,000
that I would never could never
am too insecure to what what

803
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,920
would cause a person to do that.
And that kind of prompts.

804
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,480
I think not just this movie, but
probably a few of his others as

805
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,480
well for really for really into
it.

806
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,000
Yeah, I mean, that's Doctor
Strangelove right there.

807
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,200
Like what would what would make
you want to blow up with the

808
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,080
world?
And it's like boils down to I

809
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,960
understand like the waters
making the frogs gay.

810
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:56,240
Like that is my understanding of
like that movie we're.

811
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:58,840
Attempting to harvest our
precious bodily fluids.

812
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,120
OK, so again I need to sit.
I need to sit down with this as

813
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,840
soon as possible.
Deny women Mandrake, but I do

814
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,760
deny them my.
Yeah, so, So what about like

815
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,760
Steve, Steve Martin in the bill
role?

816
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,000
Like, how do we feel about
coming off the jerk like a

817
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,760
young?
Oh God.

818
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:23,920
Swore the Steve Martin in a
farcical sex comedy based on

819
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:25,080
this.
Are we digging it?

820
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,280
I mean he was in little shops as
the dentist.

821
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:30,240
That's.
True.

822
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,600
And he did a different take on
that character for Novocaine.

823
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,560
Yeah.
Yeah, that's true.

824
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,520
I mean, I, I think that he,
Steve Martin is an interesting

825
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:47,040
actor and that he's very good at
what he does and he does what he

826
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:56,320
does, but there is this darkness
to him that I just am enthralled

827
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:56,960
by.
Sure.

828
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,720
And.
Not too many people have really

829
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:02,560
explored it to the extent that
we would kind of want them to.

830
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:08,160
Yeah, So I could see him, like
if he was, you know, young,

831
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:13,440
scrappy and hungry for a role
like this, I could see him go in

832
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,040
real hard.
And this is 1970s like Steve

833
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,120
Martin, like coming off the
jerk, coming off of like we're a

834
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,320
wild and crazy guy, like the
arrow through the head, you

835
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:26,360
know, playing the ukulele.
Steve Martin.

836
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,280
This is not like the Steve
Martin would come to know Steve

837
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:30,960
Martin.
Yeah.

838
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,000
It's not that.
It's not parenthood.

839
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,120
It's not.
It's not the guy who.

840
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,360
Shows up and plays the banjo,
right?

841
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,480
Or, you know, sells out a hall
in New York to talk about

842
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,560
artwork that he likes, right?
This is, yeah, a very different.

843
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,920
And I almost wonder, like, what
if that young Steve Martin had

844
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,840
gotten a semi serious role or a
role that kind of allowed him to

845
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,200
stretch out or to work with a
director like Cooper?

846
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:56,360
How would that have worked?
I mean, you see it, I think the

847
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,640
best, a young Adam Sandler
connecting with Paul Thomas

848
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,680
Sanderson, like that same kind
of energy.

849
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,640
Do you know what I mean?
Like with the guy who's known or

850
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,240
the voices and the guy who would
go on to work with like the

851
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:12,120
Safdie's like that that and now
Noah Bum book like that like.

852
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:14,800
Who's getting Oscar buzz?
For he better yeah.

853
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,720
Oh, I'm so I.
Hope.

854
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,120
He's here for it.
But I hope he gets the

855
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,840
nomination of nothing else
'cause he is so good in that

856
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:23,040
movie.
Like so good in that.

857
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,480
Movie, right, So, but this would
have been like more of a like

858
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,360
getting back to cause like we're
going to go 7 hours tonight.

859
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:35,560
This getting back to like my
first client will walk in my

860
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,840
office as we just wrap things up
here and sounds about right.

861
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,800
But like getting back, it would
be a parody of like, you know,

862
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,560
pornographic films of the time,
which people went on date nights

863
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,280
to.
Like people were going on dates

864
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,080
to see Deep Throat and Behind
the Green Door and the Devil and

865
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,440
Miss Jones.
Like it wasn't necessarily his

866
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,560
taboo.
And I think like they said, like

867
00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:00,240
Hubrick would like write a bunch
of like fake tag lines, like she

868
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:04,040
gave everything to him and her
20 million viewers, like 20

869
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:06,600
million other people.
Like it was going to be like a

870
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,240
send up of like pornographic
films.

871
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,160
But then he decides like, well,
that's probably not the right

872
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,280
way to go and he can't figure
out what to do.

873
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:19,600
So back into the drawer the
novella goes.

874
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:24,760
Eventually in the early 90s, mid
90s, he connects with

875
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,240
screenwriter Frederick Raphael.
And would anyone like to maybe

876
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:33,400
take this portion over?
If anyone can discuss like is

877
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:40,120
this is fascinating because
Raphael ends up writing a tell

878
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:45,680
all memoir called Eyes Wide Open
of working with Kubrick on this,

879
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:50,480
and he pitches this work three
days after Kubrick dies.

880
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,200
That's ghoulish.
I'm sorry, that is super

881
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:54,840
ghoulish.
Straight up ghoulish.

882
00:51:55,200 --> 00:52:01,360
And it's basically Raphael
taking as many shots as possible

883
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,960
at someone who can no longer
defend himself.

884
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,520
And, you know, Kubrick just
tried to defend himself, but he

885
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,480
couldn't because he was dead.
So that just didn't allow him to

886
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:13,840
do so.
It was just.

887
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,600
He tried to put in the effort,
but there was just not much

888
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:17,360
effort there to.
Put in.

889
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,000
Just couldn't.
He was sitting on this like this

890
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,680
is something he had in his back
pocket.

891
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,960
This is something he had been
thinking about for a while,

892
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,680
clearly to have the proposal
ready within three days of his

893
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:29,640
death.
Oh, yeah, That's before the

894
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,000
funeral.
The funeral doesn't take place

895
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,240
until March 12.
He's pitching this on March

896
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:36,200
10th.
Yeah, that's ghoulish.

897
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,840
That is, this is a guy who
clearly had a plan in place, saw

898
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,800
his opportunity and pounce.
And that is kind of fucking

899
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,200
evil.
That's that.

900
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,800
There's some.
There's a sinister quality.

901
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:49,040
And then he ate on it for years.
You know what I mean?

902
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:50,960
He ate out this memoir for
years.

903
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,400
So yeah.
But he essentially like Kubrick

904
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,520
like summons Raphael to his home
and he convinces him like before

905
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,040
the contract is even signed.
He's like, you know what?

906
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:08,880
Through sheer first personality,
he convinces Raphael to write

907
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,680
like the first 40s, like write
the 1st 42 pages.

908
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,080
That way if we I like it, we can
move forward.

909
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,840
If not, we'll know what we need
to change.

910
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,920
Didn't know if anyone wanted to
weigh in so I'll.

911
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:25,480
This speaks again, you know, you
asked the question at the

912
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,920
beginning, does Kubrick know
what he wants and does he have a

913
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,120
vision?
And I think that he does.

914
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:37,560
And he kind of this is a test of
like, are you, are we simpatico?

915
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:42,480
Are we on the same page, not
just in the same book, but are

916
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,600
we on the same page with the
ideas that we're extracting?

917
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:54,160
And I think that this is kind of
a maybe not the nicest way to go

918
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:58,040
about it.
I kind of understand why Raphael

919
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,360
would have beef with the
process.

920
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,800
I think what he did was just
abysmal.

921
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:11,440
Yeah.
And like low form human action.

922
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:17,400
But I think that this is very
cool, Rick.

923
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:20,680
It's like, all right, let me see
how this human does with this

924
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,600
text.
I shall analyze it and then I

925
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:30,280
shall see if can input into my
computer brain and I can come to

926
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,160
story.
Well, and Kubrick has like some

927
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,960
really specific not even
requests like demands.

928
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,960
He's like the characters can't
be Jewish.

929
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:42,760
And Kubrick himself was Jewish
and it's kind of a thing where

930
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,440
he would often strip characters
of their Jewish identity.

931
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:49,800
And I think part of that, being
acutely aware of like,

932
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:53,680
anti-Semitism and coming up
himself during like, the HUAC

933
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,080
hearings, like, that's just
something he didn't want to

934
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,120
touch on at one point, like.
Oh, sorry, I heard that.

935
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,400
The reason the character is
named Bill Harford is because he

936
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,680
wanted like a Harrison Ford
playing a goy.

937
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:11,040
And so he Har Ford, Harrison
Ford, Harford just kind of

938
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:13,040
slammed the two together.
And that's like that's what the

939
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,560
character is.
He's he's Harrison Ford playing

940
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:16,720
the goy.
Yeah.

941
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,360
And that makes a lot of sense.
But at one point, like, he was

942
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,600
going to make a Holocaust film
and he's like, I couldn't, can't

943
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:25,680
do this.
And he critiqued like

944
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,520
Schindler's List when it came
out saying, well, the Holocaust

945
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,760
is not, you know, you're
celebrating this movie because

946
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:36,960
like 600 people were saved.
But the horror is like 6,000,000

947
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:40,560
men and women died.
Like, that is the true lesson.

948
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,280
Like not that like this one.
It's not a triumph that

949
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,440
Schindler saved 600 people.
He had a hard time like

950
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,000
reconciling that.
So.

951
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,280
But it's something he would
often do in his work.

952
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,480
It seemed like Raphael, like,
was able to crack the code

953
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,840
because he sends them the 1st 42
pages.

954
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:03,120
And Kubrick says, I love this
now all this time, like Raphael

955
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,200
early on is like, I don't think
this guy's very bright.

956
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,280
He's like, there's a myth about
him.

957
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,120
He's like, he's a great
director.

958
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,840
But I think he says, like, I do
not worry about being

959
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,600
intellectually challenged by
Kubrick is like one of the

960
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,600
things he writes in his diary.
And he's like, I fear that,

961
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,560
like, the myth far outstrips the
man.

962
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,400
He feels like that until Kubrick
loves the 1st 42 pages.

963
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:29,680
And he's like, no, he's a
genius.

964
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,040
He loves my work.
He's a genius.

965
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,520
And then Kubrick's like, will
you work over Christmas?

966
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,520
And he's like, no, I won't do
that.

967
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:39,040
Like, I'm going to go see
family.

968
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:41,480
And Kubrick's like, what do you
mean you're not working over

969
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:42,680
Christmas?
Like, come on.

970
00:56:43,720 --> 00:56:47,080
And then he, I guess, played the
Hanukkah song for Raphael, like

971
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:52,400
on repeat on his answering
machine until Raphael agreed to

972
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,880
keep writing.
That part didn't happen.

973
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,800
Although now imagining Stanley
Kubrick like singing along in a

974
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:04,440
home karaoke den to Adam
Sandler's The Hanukkah Song is

975
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:10,400
just a vision I want.
Well, Raphael makes the fatal

976
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:15,040
mistake of completing the first
draft and then sending it to his

977
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:17,840
agency at William Morris in
order to get paid.

978
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,240
Basically, like it's finished,
let me get paid.

979
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:26,160
Kubrick finds us out, sends it
back unopened and says I was in

980
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:30,560
such a state of despair that I
don't even want to read this

981
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,280
because I just won't.
I'm so pissed off at you.

982
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,400
How could you send this out?
Who has it?

983
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,040
How many copies are out there
You need to track down Every

984
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:44,240
single one in Raphael's response
is like, I don't think anyone

985
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:47,960
there even knows how to read,
let alone have read your draft

986
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,280
dude.
It's like so you don't sweat and

987
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:54,360
eventually like they make up and
they continue the work.

988
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:58,200
But what Kubrick when he reads
it, it's like, I like the first

989
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,560
42 pages, everything else sucks
you need to redo it all.

990
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,920
And then he tells him like like
7 drafts later we should

991
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,480
probably make the 1st 42 pages
not quite so good because

992
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,960
everything else is so weak in
comparison.

993
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:18,160
To which my thing is like, I
don't think he liked the first

994
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:22,200
42 pages.
I think he like liked maybe some

995
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,280
of it, but it wasn't the genius
work that he said it was.

996
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:28,840
He's like, I just got to keep
this guy working and keep him on

997
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,640
the hook.
Do you know what if you hate

998
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:34,680
everything else about it, like I
don't think you really like it.

999
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,800
Does that make sense?
It does, and I mean it.

1000
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,440
It plays into my theory about
kind of his own insecurities and

1001
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:45,840
needing to retain some modicum
of power in the in the dynamic

1002
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:48,520
in the relationship in order to
kind of prove that, you know,

1003
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:52,440
I'm, I'm the boss, I'm the guy
you need to do, you know, please

1004
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,600
me, damn it.
Yeah, and, and Kubrick doesn't

1005
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:59,040
want so much dialogue.
He's like too much dialogue, too

1006
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:00,840
much talking.
Give me voice over.

1007
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,440
Because then you could just
like, explicitly say what the

1008
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,520
characters are thinking rather
than have like, interpretation.

1009
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,000
Wants less dialogue overall,
basically.

1010
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:15,480
And Kubrick is rewriting Rafael.
Rafael's rewriting his draft.

1011
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:19,480
Kubrick's rewriting that again.
Eventually they hammer out a

1012
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:24,400
script and then, like the
relationship, like many others,

1013
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:25,920
like the relationship is
severed.

1014
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,280
Nicole, you look like you really
want to weigh in.

1015
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:35,040
What do you got?
Yeah, I mean, again, this is a

1016
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:39,560
perfect example of Kubrick
saying, all right, this person

1017
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:45,120
not up to par.
I need to come in with the

1018
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,600
swiftness, and this is the story
that I want to make.

1019
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,640
And I love that.
I mean, again, yeah.

1020
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:58,200
He goes about it like, there's
two different paths that you can

1021
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:01,080
take.
There's like the human path.

1022
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:06,160
And then there's the I want to
be the biggest asshole I can

1023
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,400
because I am not just a robot or
an alien.

1024
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,360
I am also petty.
Like I got the petty chip.

1025
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:19,640
And I love when Kubrick shows
the petty chip because I think

1026
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:24,000
that that shows that he, you
know, to be told.

1027
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,440
I mean, I think anyone to have
someone say I'm not

1028
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:33,200
intellectually challenged by
you, but I'm going to work for

1029
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,200
you.
Like you kind of want to RIP out

1030
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:40,240
the heart from their chest and
be like and say what now?

1031
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,840
And I think the only thing I can
say in Raphael's defense there

1032
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,360
was he would ask Kubrick, like,
well, what do you want?

1033
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,200
And Kubrick's answer was kind of
very non committal, like I don't

1034
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,840
really know.
And that kind of followed

1035
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,360
through on like, as this film
was getting made, it was like he

1036
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,120
didn't quite know what he
wanted.

1037
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:03,960
And he was like, but I think
like, to your point, Nicole, he

1038
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,760
was working through the process.
But as he's doing that, he's

1039
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,080
making everybody else kind of
sit with him for that, which is

1040
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:13,920
really, really hard.
You know, like you're kind of

1041
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:15,840
wasting everybody's time at that
point.

1042
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,160
Like have an idea.
So obviously, like Raphael

1043
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,080
writes this book like it's like
publishes an excerpt in The New

1044
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:25,240
Yorker.
The I think we've LinkedIn the

1045
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:28,560
show notes like the article
there, which is like it's a

1046
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:32,840
pretty fascinating read.
And this book comes out and like

1047
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:36,840
Rodger Clark and his review of
it kind of eviscerates Raphael,

1048
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:38,640
which and it's kind of an
awesome quote.

1049
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,960
Like Kubrick was hiring Raphael
like a plumber.

1050
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,960
He wasn't interested in him and
as a person he slave drove him

1051
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,320
into producing A largely
polished script, which was then

1052
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:51,960
eviscerated and roughed up for
the final version.

1053
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:55,120
Like that is, that is some words
right there from one Rodger

1054
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,800
Clark and his review of The
Independent, published August

1055
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,600
2nd, 1999.
But yeah, it is like a

1056
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,600
contentious relationship to be
sure.

1057
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:08,040
Should we talk about casting?
Yeah, let's.

1058
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,640
Steven, let's go.
Let's do it.

1059
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:15,400
Kubrick seemed pretty insistent
at hiring a movie star, which is

1060
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,560
not really something he had done
since The Shining in 1980.

1061
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:23,000
Pretty much everything he makes
after that is honestly like a

1062
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,680
lot of kind of up and comers,
people who hadn't really made it

1063
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:28,640
yet.
And you know, in Full Metal

1064
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,360
Jacket, you get people like
Matthew Modine and Vincent

1065
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,080
D'onofrio who would go on to be
kind of big stars, but at the

1066
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,160
time they weren't names.
But he's like, I want to work

1067
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,360
with a Hollywood star.
I think knowing that that would

1068
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,240
help sell the movie and knowing
that would get butts in seats.

1069
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,840
But he only seems to consider,
and I find this very

1070
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,240
interesting, a list Hollywood
power couples.

1071
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,320
At one point, Alec Baldwin and
Kim Basinger are being

1072
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,600
considered.
Additionally, Bruce Willis and

1073
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,520
Demi Moore were being
considered.

1074
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,440
Would have been a disaster.
I don't, yeah.

1075
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,720
That's the, I think the version
of this movie that works the

1076
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:03,240
least of the of these three
versions that we're considering.

1077
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:05,640
The one we got, the one with
Alec and Kim and the one with

1078
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,520
Bruce and Demi.
I think the Bruce and Demi one

1079
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:08,760
is the one that just doesn't
work.

1080
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,440
Not that I don't think either of
them couldn't play it, but it

1081
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,480
mixes it plays with the formula
a little like Demi's already

1082
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:18,640
kind of done something like this
with Indecent Proposal.

1083
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,960
Bruce Willis couldn't do this.
I think I think Bruce Willis is

1084
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,680
a better actor than most people
give him credit for.

1085
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,640
He got pigeon holed into a lot
of action roles and then kind of

1086
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:30,640
metastasized into that later
like and by the late 90s, late

1087
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,960
90s, he's doing shit like. 6th
Sense. 6th Sense.

1088
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:39,320
Unbreakable stuff like.
That like, he's still great and

1089
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,840
still being able to pull off
serious roles, but this just

1090
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,000
doesn't feel like the kind of
role that's right for him.

1091
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:49,960
Well, I think that you also have
to understand the cult of

1092
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,040
personality around these couples
too.

1093
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:57,720
It wasn't just that these were
acting couples and they had all

1094
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,680
of these accolades around their
acting.

1095
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,760
These were couples.
They were on the cover of

1096
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:06,120
magazines.
They were as much in the

1097
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,400
spotlight for being together and
for their romantic relationship

1098
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:17,240
and their kind of tiffs here and
there as they were for their

1099
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,800
acting.
And so I think that that was

1100
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:26,240
really about you have these two
people working kind of in

1101
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,840
similar fields, you know, of,
you know, similar kind of

1102
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:35,200
placement to some degree within
kind of the food chain of their

1103
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:41,480
industries, but the gender
breakdown of that and the

1104
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:45,440
expectations.
And so This is why I almost

1105
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:47,960
pushed back and think that the
Bruce Willis and Demi Moore

1106
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:52,120
would have been really
interesting because Bruce Willis

1107
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,520
plays a very like he has, I
think of all of these

1108
01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:02,520
characters, the more macho,
yeah, very true piece.

1109
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:07,800
And So what happens when you
just get that like rubbed in

1110
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:12,440
your fucking face?
I think that that could have

1111
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,160
been just.
Wild.

1112
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,840
Okay, okay.
Look, I you will not find a

1113
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:21,080
bigger fan of Bruce Willis as a
movie star than me.

1114
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:23,840
I think Bruce Willis is maybe my
favorite movie star.

1115
01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:26,000
I love Bruce Willis and I think
he can.

1116
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:29,280
I think he never got a fair
shake to really reach his full

1117
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,400
potential in terms of what he
could do as an actor.

1118
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:35,680
Like because he was, he's
insanely funny and he's

1119
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,600
incredibly charismatic.
And I think at some point he

1120
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,760
just decided this is what you
want from me, this is what I'm

1121
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:45,800
going to give you and stopped
trying to the extent that he

1122
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,720
really was able and stopped, I
think seeking out the roles

1123
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,480
where people would quote UN
quote, take him seriously and

1124
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,000
just decided to lean into the
Bruce Willis thing.

1125
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,960
And I look, I get paid, Bruce
get paid like when he did the

1126
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:04,520
there was a the the die hard
battery commercial that he did

1127
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:06,560
several years ago.
Like I remember reading

1128
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,840
someone's like, I cannot believe
we've sunk to the point where

1129
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,600
Bruce Willis is making battery
car battery commercials.

1130
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,320
And I'm like, I can't believe
they made his quote because

1131
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,920
Bruce Willis is famously like a
this much per day.

1132
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:18,280
And this is what you get from
me.

1133
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,920
And I'm like, I'm just like, I
can't believe they they, they

1134
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:23,840
matched his quote for this
commercial.

1135
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,440
Like that seems insane to me.
But no, I like, I love Bruce

1136
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:29,080
Willis.
I, I am really sad that we won't

1137
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,520
be getting more Bruce Willis
movies.

1138
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:31,960
He's he's one of my all time
favorites.

1139
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,200
I'm one of those people who I
know it's bad, but I kind of

1140
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,120
love Hudson Hawk.
That's the kind of Bruce Willis

1141
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:40,200
fan I am.
So just to kind of peek behind

1142
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:42,680
the curtain there.
But yeah, I, I love Bruce Willis

1143
01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,080
and I, again, I feel like this
version would have been in his

1144
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:46,160
version would have been
interesting.

1145
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,800
But again, I think of the three
pairings that we that we have, I

1146
01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:52,200
think it's probably the one that
doesn't work quite as well.

1147
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,640
What do we think he would have
committed to the time that Tom

1148
01:06:56,640 --> 01:07:01,000
and Nicole did for this movie?
The only thing that I would then

1149
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,960
ask both of you is that another
stand out of these three couples

1150
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:13,040
is that they divorced.
And there were, I would say with

1151
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:18,280
the exception of Bruce and Demi,
they had kind of tumultuous

1152
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:20,800
divorces.
Yeah.

1153
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:25,760
And so, you know, I think there
may have been like some back and

1154
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,320
forth with Bruce and Demi at the
very beginning, but they have

1155
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:33,760
always been very much in each
other's corner, very much about

1156
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:38,040
Co parenting and very much like,
yeah, we're not together, but

1157
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,400
you know, we will.
Sign up for the Comedy Central

1158
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,680
roast of Bruce Willis.
So like she showed up for that

1159
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:47,680
and like, well, it doesn't tell
me like how much they love each

1160
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:50,120
other.
Like even if it's not romantic

1161
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:51,360
they they still.
Both, sure.

1162
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,280
Clearly love each other.
You look at.

1163
01:07:55,160 --> 01:07:57,160
Go ahead, Nicole.
I was just gonna say like, I, I,

1164
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:02,600
I just knowing kind of the where
these couples are now.

1165
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,280
Yeah.
It just kind of makes me think

1166
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:08,720
like what?
Like, does that impact how we

1167
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:12,560
feel about?
Yeah, I mean, this is the thing

1168
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:17,120
with like Tom Cruise and Nicole
Kidman is he basically chose

1169
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:20,000
Scientology over her.
I mean, that's really what it

1170
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:24,520
comes down to is like he got
more and more involved with

1171
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:29,120
Scientology, more drawn in, and
he essentially chooses

1172
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:33,479
Scientology over Nicole Kidman,
which is crazy to me.

1173
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,640
Kind of insane to me too.
And like, we Alec Baldwin like

1174
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,840
was horrifically abusive at the
very least, like emotionally

1175
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,479
abusive to Kim Basinger, like
just.

1176
01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,319
But yeah, it is it.
How many like happily married

1177
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:51,640
Hollywood couples are there?
Like when we say, well, they got

1178
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,240
divorced.
Like that's you could throw like

1179
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:58,600
a dart and a board and you're
going to wind up on like a

1180
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:02,080
divorced Hollywood couple.
Like just they don't stay

1181
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,040
together like they're apart for
so long.

1182
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,479
You get chemistry with your
other coast.

1183
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,600
Like that lifestyle's not
conducive to that.

1184
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:13,319
You know, I think it's not any
George Clooney doesn't get

1185
01:09:13,319 --> 01:09:15,640
married.
And so he like really slows down

1186
01:09:15,720 --> 01:09:19,160
his acting career and that's
when he settles down like Adam

1187
01:09:19,160 --> 01:09:21,000
Sandler.
Like I keep bringing Adam

1188
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:22,960
Sandler up just because he's
awesome.

1189
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:26,000
Is like one of the few, like
super happily like.

1190
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:29,000
And he makes movies where he
just brings his wife and kids

1191
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,040
with him and now his kids act in
his movies.

1192
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:35,200
And Brian, I love it.
Well, he's like he seems he's

1193
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:39,960
got it figured out.
Well, I think that though, even,

1194
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,240
I mean, the ones that you have
kind of framed are interesting

1195
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,840
because they they kind of buck
this trend.

1196
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,240
But for me, whenever someone is
like, oh, you know, think of

1197
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:54,440
this amazing couple that
wouldn't we be devastated if

1198
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:59,320
they were to separate, you know,
like Rita and Tom, we love Rita

1199
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:05,280
Wilson and Tom Hanks, right?
But they got together via

1200
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:09,880
cheating on the set of a movie.
And this is the story of so many

1201
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,520
of these really timeless, lovely
relationships where you are

1202
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:17,320
exactly right, Mike.
I just assume that any Hollywood

1203
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:21,160
person, like if you are in a
relationship, that relationship

1204
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:25,520
has an open door policy in some
way, shape or form there.

1205
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:30,000
You can't, you cannot be months
and months and months, two years

1206
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,280
away from your family and expect
to have that relationship

1207
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,000
nurtured.
And I feel like that's almost

1208
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,600
something that Kubrick is
wanting to like prick at a

1209
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:48,920
little bit to be like, what
happens when ego and aspirations

1210
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,240
and all of this kind of collide
in the bedroom?

1211
01:10:52,240 --> 01:11:00,120
And what does it mean?
And so I, I don't know, I, I

1212
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,440
just find it interesting that
all of these couples at the time

1213
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,720
were kind of like these
landmarks, like out and about

1214
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:11,200
always getting packed during
this time.

1215
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:15,200
Couples hot, hot to trot.
And now we look back and we're

1216
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:18,240
like what the fuck was their
relationship?

1217
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,840
My.
You know another power couple

1218
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:24,400
they could have chosen Tom Green
and Drew Barrymore.

1219
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,280
Now you're telling me you
wouldn't want to see Tom Green

1220
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,680
directed by Stanley Kubrick at
this time?

1221
01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,560
Mike.
Freddy's.

1222
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:38,200
Exactly what I'm telling you.
Freddy Got Fingered zone Tom

1223
01:11:38,200 --> 01:11:41,040
Green.
I fucking love Tom Green.

1224
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:42,040
All right.
Sorry that.

1225
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,960
The least surprising thing
you've said this episode?

1226
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:45,920
I love Tom Green.
Very clear.

1227
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:49,280
He's the songbird of our
generation.

1228
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:53,720
Anyway, continue.
John Turturro says in an

1229
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,880
interview actually earlier this
year that the role of Nick

1230
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:58,720
Nightingale was intended for
him, written for him.

1231
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,960
Kubrick reaches out to Turturro
and says, hey, I'm going to send

1232
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:03,240
you the script.
You're going to love it.

1233
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,960
I wrote it, this role for you.
And Turturro basically says,

1234
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:08,640
yeah, I love it, let's see what
happens.

1235
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,720
And because he doesn't say yes,
I will do this no matter what.

1236
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,600
Kubrick's like oh he must not be
interested in moves on in past

1237
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:20,440
hot field instead, which I find
hilarious that John Turturro.

1238
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:23,800
If you don't, listen to the
summon.

1239
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,760
If you don't, yeah, heed the
call.

1240
01:12:27,240 --> 01:12:29,760
Right.
Then the failing is yours.

1241
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:31,720
We live.
We serve and live at the

1242
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:35,040
pleasure of Stanley Kubrick.
We do be very clear about that,

1243
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,240
all of us.
We whether or not we realize it

1244
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:41,800
or not, even though he has been
dead low these many years. 20.

1245
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:46,240
We still do, still live and
serve at the beck and call, at

1246
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:49,600
the pleasure of Stanley Kubrick.
Harvey Keitel is originally cast

1247
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:53,800
as Victor Ziegler, the the
colleague of Tom Cruise, kind of

1248
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,320
the his aspirational figure.
Keitel basically just gets fed

1249
01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,840
up with Kubrick and the quits
perfectionism and just yeah,

1250
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,200
just says fuck you.
I I don't like being

1251
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:05,440
disrespected.
I'm out.

1252
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,400
Gary Oldman says later, like he
didn't like he kind of recounts

1253
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:13,400
the the Tom Cruise 95 takes
through the door thing and then

1254
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,160
that was what ultimately broke
Keitel.

1255
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:16,760
He says, you know, fuck you, I I
can't.

1256
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:20,080
Work like this, I think takes
off the breaking point was like

1257
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,400
a month into the shoot.
Kubrick like he the the setting,

1258
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:28,840
like the the pinocchiolet scene
between like Pollock and Cruz

1259
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,720
and that like room that smells
like money.

1260
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,760
Like, yeah, Kubrick walks in,
looks at the set and is like, I

1261
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,000
hate it.
Tear it all down, rebuild it,

1262
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,320
which is going to take two
months and they're already

1263
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:43,800
filming.
And finally, Keitel, like I

1264
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:48,320
can't believe Harvey Keitel,
especially late mid to late 90s

1265
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,960
Harvey Keitel, who said like a
second career peak doesn't just

1266
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:54,480
like literally beat the shit out
of him.

1267
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:59,560
Like I'm expecting him to like
throttle this old man at that

1268
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,680
point.
And but he's like, I'm not doing

1269
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:05,400
this because especially he's
like, no one can work on

1270
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:09,160
anything else.
One thing he told Raphael was

1271
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:11,520
like, I don't want you to write
anything else.

1272
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,880
You get paid for when you're
writing the script.

1273
01:14:14,160 --> 01:14:17,880
Not a newspaper article, not a
review, not a novella.

1274
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:20,400
Like you can only work on this,
which is crazy.

1275
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:22,280
It's like, but I'm not getting
paid.

1276
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,720
And that's he expects that of
his cast as well.

1277
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:26,560
Like you cannot work on
anything.

1278
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,800
We'll get into that here.
That is, I think what the

1279
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:33,760
breaking point was for Kaitel.
Not even not the 95 takes, but

1280
01:14:33,760 --> 01:14:38,760
the tear this whole thing down
and take months to rebuild it.

1281
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:41,880
Meanwhile, you're sitting here
not making money.

1282
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,600
Yep.
So he gets replaced by director

1283
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,800
Sydney Pollack, who I do think
is really good in this movie.

1284
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,640
Yeah, Pollack is great at.
Much different role, much

1285
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,040
different performance than you
would.

1286
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:53,840
Very different.
Take on the character for sure.

1287
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:57,080
Yeah, yeah, Keitel would have
brought a menace to the role

1288
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,120
that I think Pollack hints at
towards the end.

1289
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:02,640
It would always would have been
there with Keitel.

1290
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:08,360
Which I kind of like.
I think that Pollock gets the

1291
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:13,720
swarmy part of it in a way that
Keitel cuts through with that

1292
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,200
menace.
I love, I love that phrasing.

1293
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:20,720
I think he is just scary.
Like, even if he's like being

1294
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,320
your best friend and saying the
nicest things in the entire

1295
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:27,040
world, telling you about how he
loves puppies and balloons, I

1296
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:30,400
think you are sitting there
thinking of this motherfucker's

1297
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,480
going to slit my throat at.
Any moment you're like, what do

1298
01:15:33,480 --> 01:15:34,960
you like to do with puppies and
balloons?

1299
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:35,800
Like what team?
Do you?

1300
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:37,920
Well, and it's kind of like.
Balloons like What are you

1301
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,520
doing?
Maybe I deserved it, and that's

1302
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:42,400
OK.
This is the way that we go.

1303
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:48,440
But Pollock brings that rich
smarmy, like I'm really in the

1304
01:15:48,440 --> 01:15:53,920
thick of it.
And you understand why Cruz, why

1305
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:59,240
Bill is really kind of taken in
by him for that because I think

1306
01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:03,320
if it was more menacing, you
would see him I think kind of

1307
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:07,080
butt up against the.
Pollock gives off the vibe that,

1308
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:11,680
like, he's never had a real
human relationship in his life

1309
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,800
and everybody is kind of beneath
him.

1310
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,160
Like, everything is
transactional.

1311
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:19,160
And I don't know if Kaitel
necessarily would have done

1312
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:21,400
that.
Like, you get that kind of like,

1313
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:25,160
back slapping life is mine for
the taking with Pollock.

1314
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,240
And Pollock would push back on
like, one thing he says in an

1315
01:16:28,240 --> 01:16:33,000
interview was like, if I had to
do more than like 10 takes on

1316
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:34,960
something like, that was a
tragedy.

1317
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,080
Like, it screwed and I screwed
something up.

1318
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,360
And he would, like, tell he's
like, I did not do 30 takes on

1319
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:44,120
anything because I just wouldn't
do it.

1320
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:47,320
I would tell.
I would tell Kubrick, like, this

1321
01:16:47,320 --> 01:16:49,800
is what you're going to get.
Like, I can't do it any better.

1322
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:53,280
And I think because he was also
looking director of high esteem,

1323
01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:56,400
that Kubrick was like, OK,
that's fine.

1324
01:16:56,440 --> 01:16:58,280
But he witnessed a lot of what?
A lot.

1325
01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:01,840
To do with it because Pollock is
at this point already an

1326
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,600
incredibly decorated director
who's won multiple Oscars at

1327
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:08,280
this point.
Like he he won for Out of

1328
01:17:08,280 --> 01:17:10,600
Africa.
Whether or not he should have is

1329
01:17:10,600 --> 01:17:12,760
a different story.
Like he won two Oscars for that

1330
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:14,880
movie, but he's like nominated
for Tootsie.

1331
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:20,240
Like he is an incredible and a
substantial and very famous and

1332
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,280
brightly so.
Director Ghost directed Howard

1333
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,680
the Duck did not do that.
Wish that.

1334
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:28,600
Were true.
I did not do that.

1335
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,800
I own Howard the Duck on 4K my.
I own it on Blu-ray, so you're

1336
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:36,720
ahead of me.
I yeah and, and Pollock had

1337
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:38,280
already worked with Tom Cruise
at this point.

1338
01:17:38,280 --> 01:17:39,400
They.
For the firm.

1339
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:44,600
Correct in 93, Yeah, he.
Recommended he, I, I, I, I think

1340
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:49,320
it was Pollock who recommended
cruise to or it could be the

1341
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,240
other way around.
That's one of those two.

1342
01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,360
But yeah.
And then he goes on to direct

1343
01:17:54,360 --> 01:17:57,000
Nicole Kidman in the interpreter
a few years later.

1344
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,040
I think that one of the things
to it, going back to the

1345
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,720
casting, what makes Tom Cruise
probably a really attractive fit

1346
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:11,360
for this role, too, especially
in comparison to I think, Willis

1347
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:18,120
and Baldwin, is, you know, you
mentioned roles like the Firm, A

1348
01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:22,120
Few Good Men.
You know, these are roles where,

1349
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,520
you know, Cruz has charisma.
No one's ever going to counter

1350
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:28,720
that.
Like the man has charisma.

1351
01:18:28,720 --> 01:18:33,280
This is this is how he signs his
checks, to be honest.

1352
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:37,200
But The thing is, is that he's
not, you know, it's so strange

1353
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:40,960
to say this about a cult leader.
He's not that scary.

1354
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:44,760
Yeah.
Like he's just not scary.

1355
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:49,960
So I think having all of these,
you know, I think that Pollock

1356
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:53,080
was probably like, Hey, I don't
have to play with this because

1357
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:57,560
this is a guy who is, you know,
who can have charisma and have

1358
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:04,520
that power, but it's still kind
of subdued by the status, like

1359
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:10,000
the, the kind of patriarchy in
and of itself, which is a

1360
01:19:10,040 --> 01:19:14,120
strange thing.
So I, I don't know, having

1361
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:18,920
Sydney Pollack really makes this
film kind of go to the next

1362
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:20,720
tier.
As much as I love Kaito, yeah.

1363
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,720
Sure.
No, I completely agree.

1364
01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:26,760
A couple more casting notes,
Jennifer Jason Lee was

1365
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:29,840
originally cast as the the woman
whose father dies at the

1366
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:32,000
beginning.
And it's like, I love you.

1367
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:35,240
I want you like I will do
anything for you.

1368
01:19:35,240 --> 01:19:39,120
And then she ends up dropping
out to to do existence with,

1369
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,080
with Cronenberg, a great, great
film that she is actually

1370
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,360
wonderful in.
So I feel like she made the

1371
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,440
right choice.
She's replaced by Swedish

1372
01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:51,200
actress Maria Richardson in that
kind of really great one scene

1373
01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:53,400
performance.
And then the last casting note,

1374
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:59,080
Alan Cumming in what might be my
favorite scene of the movie at

1375
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:01,840
the at the hotel.
He's the the clerk at the hotel.

1376
01:20:02,040 --> 01:20:06,320
He says he had to audition 6
separate times for Kubrick

1377
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:07,760
before he ended up getting the
role.

1378
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,080
Like he like the audition
process was very arduous for

1379
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:13,360
what is ostensibly A1 scene
role.

1380
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:15,680
But again, that's the kind of
perfectionism that Kubrick's

1381
01:20:15,680 --> 01:20:18,400
going for.
But coming is so fucking good in

1382
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:20,040
this movie.
I love him so much.

1383
01:20:22,360 --> 01:20:25,360
And I also have to give a shout
out to Lili Sobieski.

1384
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:30,680
Oh yes.
In this movie, because she talk

1385
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:36,960
about kind of taking a scene and
making it about you, she is so

1386
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:41,600
unhinged in her role and I love
it.

1387
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:44,320
Yeah.
She's always one of those actors

1388
01:20:44,320 --> 01:20:47,800
that I just, I struggle with
because I'm like, there's so

1389
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,520
much there and why?
Why am I?

1390
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:53,120
Why do I not see you everywhere?
Why?

1391
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,880
She laughed on her own accord,
like she was like this is not

1392
01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:56,520
the life for.
Me.

1393
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:57,040
Yeah, yeah.
And.

1394
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,440
I respect that, but I'm just
like, God damn it, you were in.

1395
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:02,120
Some.
Really.

1396
01:21:02,760 --> 01:21:05,320
Yep.
Banger roles, yeah, and.

1397
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:09,200
And I love Rachel Beija as well.
The actor that plays her father

1398
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,960
is so good.
I love every time that guy shows

1399
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:14,960
up, I'm like, OK, I can just
relax because I'm in good hands.

1400
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,400
This is kind of exactly what
he's doing right now.

1401
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,120
Yeah.
This is Alan Cummings.

1402
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:22,800
Like, says that Kubrick didn't
know he was British.

1403
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,160
Like when they meet on set, he's
like, wait a minute, like you,

1404
01:21:27,480 --> 01:21:29,760
you're not American.
He's like, yeah, I know.

1405
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:31,840
I know.
He's like, yeah, Scottish.

1406
01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:33,920
Thank you.
He's like, but you have an

1407
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,360
American accent.
You you didn't have a Scottish

1408
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:39,560
accent in your edition.
He's like, yes, I'm an actor.

1409
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,600
And like at that point, like
Kubrick got along with him

1410
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:46,200
Grace, like I never had a hard
time with him because he

1411
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:49,360
actually he was like fuck what
the fuck dude.

1412
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:52,280
Like you had me auditioned 6
times and you're mad that I

1413
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,680
fooled you?
Like that's my job.

1414
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:58,720
And he says he never had a
problem with them after that.

1415
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,480
He had a good time.
In post production, they had to

1416
01:22:01,480 --> 01:22:05,480
replace the actress who had done
the voice of the you know, the

1417
01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:09,360
woman who sacrifices herself in
the orgy for for Bill with Cate

1418
01:22:09,360 --> 01:22:12,120
Blanchett.
Yep, because the person that

1419
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,760
they originally cast could not
pull off an American accent.

1420
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:18,000
So that is Cate Blanchett.
Like, I think she's is gonna win

1421
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:21,720
her Oscar like the next year for
Elizabeth, her first Oscar for

1422
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:24,800
Elizabeth, like.
And I'm just like, that's that.

1423
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:26,840
Yeah.
To me like that you.

1424
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:30,200
And that was apparently
something that was done after

1425
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:32,840
Kubrick had passed away deep in
post production.

1426
01:22:33,240 --> 01:22:35,720
They're trying to figure it out.
And Tom and Nicole are like, oh,

1427
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:37,000
you should get Cate Blanchett.
She's really.

1428
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:39,560
Good.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1429
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:42,880
The originally wanted Fran
Drescher, but they were turned

1430
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,840
down.
That would have been amazing.

1431
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:52,080
What are you doing here?
Hey, if we want to talk about

1432
01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:56,320
Christmas movies that we can
cover the Fran Drescher classic

1433
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:57,640
Santa's sleigh.
Oh.

1434
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,240
I don't even know that one.
Starring Bill Goldberg, the

1435
01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:04,960
slasher movie?
Is that the one you're referring

1436
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,280
to?
It is.

1437
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:09,560
We're not doing that movie.
It is.

1438
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:11,320
I love you, Nicole.
We're not.

1439
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:16,080
No, you can't go over Eyes Wide
Shut to say you contain

1440
01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:17,760
multitudes.
I know, but.

1441
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,840
We did a Christmas in July.
Nice.

1442
01:23:23,120 --> 01:23:28,560
Movie marathon and we ended it
at like 1:00 AM was Santa Sleigh

1443
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:31,720
and I had never been happier.
Santa Sleigh.

1444
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,960
I'd never been happier.
Nobody got up to play ping pong

1445
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:37,280
or get boos for that.
Everybody was riveting.

1446
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:40,040
Everyone was passed out.
Everyone was passed out except

1447
01:23:40,040 --> 01:23:44,560
for me and my friend Brett was
so mad that we were watching it

1448
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:48,400
and I just had the best time and
pretty cool just in it your.

1449
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,880
Hands together like the The man
from another place from Twin

1450
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:54,840
Peaks.
So on the other end of this, and

1451
01:23:54,880 --> 01:23:58,200
you know, we were talking about
Bill Goldberg, now we'll talk

1452
01:23:58,200 --> 01:24:00,720
about the man who plays Bill,
Tom Cruise.

1453
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:06,160
Can we talk about what?
What a segue though, like.

1454
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,320
I'm pretty good at those.
I am pretty good at those.

1455
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:12,800
Hubert gives Cruise the Shelley
Duvall treatment.

1456
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:16,720
Basically during this movie,
he's like, you know, that's

1457
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:20,480
pretty much the the, the
treatment he gets here on set.

1458
01:24:20,480 --> 01:24:24,360
Like he, and from what I
understand about Tom Cruise,

1459
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,520
it's like he just wants to
please people.

1460
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:31,120
Like, and it's funny, like we
talked about, he has charisma.

1461
01:24:31,280 --> 01:24:34,360
He's not a cult leader, He's a
cult spokesperson.

1462
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:36,120
And I think there's like a
difference.

1463
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:41,000
Like he's the face, he's the
he's he's the face, but he's not

1464
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,280
the face that runs the place.
You know what I mean?

1465
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,520
Like there's like people behind
the man, but at this time, like

1466
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:48,640
people knew he was a
Scientologist.

1467
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,640
I think it's icky, but it wasn't
so front and center.

1468
01:24:52,080 --> 01:24:56,680
And he's ripping off films like
The Color of Money, Cocktail,

1469
01:24:56,840 --> 01:25:00,160
He's doing Rain Man.
He's nominated for an Oscar for

1470
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,960
Bourne of the 4th July, A Few
Good Men, The Firm, Interview

1471
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:09,000
with a Vampire, Which you know,
like Anne Rice apologizes to him

1472
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,840
after that movie comes out.
She's like, yeah, I was wrong.

1473
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:15,640
Like she was like, so out and
about saying like he's the wrong

1474
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:18,440
guy.
And he gets nominated for Jerry

1475
01:25:18,440 --> 01:25:22,640
Maguire for Cameron Crowe.
And Crowe recently talked about

1476
01:25:23,760 --> 01:25:28,240
his experience with Cruz on The
Real Watchables where he's like,

1477
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:30,840
he read for the part.
Like he's like, yeah, I'm

1478
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:32,800
interested.
Can I come in and read for it?

1479
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:36,480
And Cameron Crowe is like,
you're Tom Cruise, like you

1480
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:38,360
don't have to audition.
It's like, no, I want to

1481
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,160
audition.
And he did.

1482
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:42,880
And he's like every day.
He was like the most infectious

1483
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,800
positive, like, what can I do
guy on set?

1484
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:48,400
Nicole, you're shaking your
head.

1485
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:52,320
That's a cult leader.
Cult leaders are positive they

1486
01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:55,640
want to bring.
This is why everyone who says

1487
01:25:55,640 --> 01:26:00,440
that when they worked with Tom,
they're like the nicest person

1488
01:26:00,440 --> 01:26:03,280
you could yeah ever want to
meet.

1489
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:09,600
So gracious, always smiles for
days because he leads a cult.

1490
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:14,280
I am not denying he's I am not
denying he's in a cult.

1491
01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,600
Like I'm not don't mean to
suggest.

1492
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:20,000
I just don't think he's
necessarily the leader so much

1493
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:24,000
as like the out in front like
spokesperson like he's your

1494
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:26,520
pitchman.
He's like Bruce Willis selling

1495
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:30,440
die hard batteries but for like
a crazy lizard religion.

1496
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:35,120
Funding it like he is the cash
cow.

1497
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:40,320
Yeah, he, like David McCray,
goes to him for the handouts.

1498
01:26:40,320 --> 01:26:41,880
Yeah.
Where is Shelley?

1499
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:44,560
Where is Shelley?
I don't.

1500
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:45,760
Never know.
I don't.

1501
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:49,880
Care, David.
Miss Miss Graybury's wife has

1502
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:52,280
been missing for OK.
Got it.

1503
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,440
OK yeah, has been missing for
decades.

1504
01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:01,200
OK, now and no one knows, so no,
I he is.

1505
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,600
But I think that that's again
one of the things that just

1506
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:06,880
makes him such a a.
Creep an.

1507
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:12,200
Interesting person to like delve
into is that he is so positive

1508
01:27:12,320 --> 01:27:18,240
and that butts up against roles
like this where he has to go

1509
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,880
into some dark places.
And I can understand maybe

1510
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:25,080
Kubrick's inclination to be
like, oh, this is someone who

1511
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,200
seems happy.
I must.

1512
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,440
I must, I must destroy that.
Take it but.

1513
01:27:30,440 --> 01:27:31,720
I think from I.
Must take it.

1514
01:27:32,120 --> 01:27:34,880
From a performance standpoint,
though, from like an actor

1515
01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:38,600
standpoint, he's someone that
can do like the top guns of the

1516
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,320
world, like he's the biggest
movie star in the world.

1517
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,720
But he's also like wants to be
and is like a serious actor.

1518
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:49,400
And you don't often get those
like Brian.

1519
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:52,560
And I just did Back to the
Future too today for the

1520
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,000
patrons.
And we talked about Michael J

1521
01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:57,080
Fox.
And I think Brian put it great.

1522
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:01,560
He's like Michael J Fox was a
star, but he wasn't necessarily

1523
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,200
like a serious actor, like
because he was trying to do

1524
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:08,320
things like bright lights and
big city and casualties of war.

1525
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:11,200
And they didn't like that's not
what people wanted to see.

1526
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:15,040
Cruz can flip between both.
Like Cruz can get Oscar

1527
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,200
nominations.
He can do that thing.

1528
01:28:17,680 --> 01:28:20,560
And you're right, like maybe
that is because he's funding A

1529
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:23,320
cult like he is that he wants to
draw eventually.

1530
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,040
He's like, hey, I did all these
great things for you.

1531
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:30,480
Now you get to come to like my
crazy cult with me and drink the

1532
01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:32,720
Kool-aid.
Do some fucking auditing.

1533
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:34,320
Sure.
I think the fascinating thing

1534
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,720
about Cruz in the though, and it
starts in the 80s a little bit,

1535
01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,640
is his he seeks out these
directors and basically hands

1536
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:44,640
himself over to them and says
use me, use me in a way that is

1537
01:28:44,640 --> 01:28:47,600
interesting like and I think it
starts after Top Gun, which is

1538
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:49,160
kind of his star making
performance.

1539
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,680
Immediately after that he does
Color of Money with Martin

1540
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:54,560
Scorsese.
He does a couple years after

1541
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:57,280
Rain Man with Barry Levinson,
born on the 4th of July with

1542
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:00,480
Oliver Stone, Days of Thunder,
reuniting with Tony Scott, Far

1543
01:29:00,480 --> 01:29:02,840
and Away with Ron Howard, a Few
Good Men with the late Rob

1544
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:06,080
Reiner.
RIP 93 He does The Firm with

1545
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:09,480
Sydney Pollack, Interview with a
Vampire, Mission Impossible with

1546
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:12,120
Brian Depalma, Jerry Maguire
with Cameron Crowe, Eyes Wide

1547
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:16,200
Shut with Stanley Kubrick, and
then Magnolia with Paul Thomas

1548
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:19,600
Anderson into the 2000s.
He he does Mission Impossible 2

1549
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:24,760
with John Woo back to.
And De Palma on De Palma on the

1550
01:29:24,760 --> 01:29:28,640
first Mission Impossible, right?
And he's not franchise Tom

1551
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,720
Cruise at this time.
Like he's doing different roles.

1552
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:37,360
Like he wants to be like the
biggest best actor in the world.

1553
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:41,480
And he basically says, like if
Stanley Kubrick ever says will

1554
01:29:41,480 --> 01:29:45,680
you be in a movie with for me, I
will say yes no matter what.

1555
01:29:45,680 --> 01:29:48,920
Like there's no way else.
He's the anti John Tuturro was

1556
01:29:48,920 --> 01:29:53,280
like, I just need a day to think
about it and then gets moved on.

1557
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:57,200
Kidman is working in England on
Portrait of a Lady, I think with

1558
01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:59,400
Jane Campion.
And so the two of them like,

1559
01:29:59,440 --> 01:30:01,840
let's go meet with Kubrick.
Let's just go, go talk to him.

1560
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,600
And so they go to his house, and
on the strength of that meeting,

1561
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:07,400
he cast them both in this movie.
Yeah.

1562
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,240
Like, that's how they get in
here is because they both

1563
01:30:10,240 --> 01:30:13,960
respond to the summons and
basically pay homage to the

1564
01:30:13,960 --> 01:30:16,200
great Stanley Kubrick.
And it works.

1565
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:21,480
What say you, Nicole?
Yeah, I think that this is such

1566
01:30:21,480 --> 01:30:29,000
an interesting dynamic between
Kubrick, Kidman and Cruz because

1567
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:35,320
once they enter into, once they
and say heed the summon, their

1568
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:37,440
relationship is never really the
same.

1569
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,160
Not to say that we know all the
insurance and outs of it before,

1570
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:46,280
but this is the down turn of
their relationship, full stop.

1571
01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:50,240
Yeah.
And this was the couple.

1572
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:54,000
I mean, you have them coming off
of this film.

1573
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:58,520
You have right around this time,
you know Kidman is going in to

1574
01:30:58,520 --> 01:31:03,600
Moulin Rouge.
You have just all these things

1575
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:08,160
happening for both of them
professionally, and it should be

1576
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:13,600
amplifying the star power to
like the next echelon.

1577
01:31:14,120 --> 01:31:19,520
But instead Kubrick comes in and
it's like, no, relationships

1578
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:22,560
seem weird, so let me destroy
this and let me see what

1579
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,240
happens.
And it feels like in order for

1580
01:31:25,240 --> 01:31:28,120
him to be able to direct a
couple whose marriage is in

1581
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:31,640
trouble, he has to himself
insert himself into their

1582
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:35,480
marriage and put it in jeopardy
in order to kind of fuck with

1583
01:31:35,480 --> 01:31:38,720
shit.
Like the story about him filming

1584
01:31:38,720 --> 01:31:41,960
Nicole Kidman sex scenes with
the actor playing the the

1585
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:44,200
sailor.
Like he filmed those in

1586
01:31:44,200 --> 01:31:47,880
isolation over the course of
three days and forbid Nicole

1587
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:51,280
Kidman from discussing anything
that they shot that day with her

1588
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:53,360
husband who was in fact her Co
star.

1589
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:57,440
Like that is.
What you can't do, I mean, how

1590
01:31:57,440 --> 01:32:00,000
do you enforce that?
Like that's an UN.

1591
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:02,760
How do you enforce something
like that?

1592
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:04,440
Do you know what I mean?
Like that is.

1593
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,200
But by the same token, you
can't.

1594
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:09,200
But by the same token, we've
seen how incensed he gets when

1595
01:32:09,200 --> 01:32:11,720
someone sends a script to the
wrong place.

1596
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:15,800
Like it's one of those things
like, I think if they both

1597
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:19,120
respect him enough, and I think
they both do that they're not

1598
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:20,960
going to put in, they're not
going to do anything to

1599
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:23,880
jeopardize it.
And I think Cruz above all, like

1600
01:32:23,880 --> 01:32:25,880
you said, he's he's a
collaborative guy.

1601
01:32:25,880 --> 01:32:29,280
He wants to show up.
He wants to please his director.

1602
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:31,760
Like this is the reason he seeks
out working with these guys is

1603
01:32:31,760 --> 01:32:34,080
he wants to learn as much as he
can about the craft.

1604
01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:39,440
And so he is malleable.
He is, he says for me, use me,

1605
01:32:39,440 --> 01:32:43,360
do what you need to with me.
And so I think he probably was

1606
01:32:43,360 --> 01:32:46,480
more keen to enforce the don't
tell Me than she might have

1607
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:49,000
been.
And he and the other thing is

1608
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:50,840
like Cruz won't push back at
all.

1609
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:55,280
He will not push back at all.
Like he's doing 95 takes of

1610
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:58,280
walking through a door and he's
like, and that was like the

1611
01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:00,480
closest he came to like
breaking.

1612
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:03,720
He has to do like 30 something
takes of like leaning towards

1613
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:07,160
like the body in the morgue.
Like I need you to lean over a

1614
01:33:07,160 --> 01:33:10,120
different way for the shot.
They do 30 something takes of

1615
01:33:10,120 --> 01:33:12,440
it.
And all this time Kubrick is

1616
01:33:12,440 --> 01:33:16,520
like Nicole is a thoroughbred.
You're a roller coaster in terms

1617
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:19,640
of like referring to their
acting performances, meaning

1618
01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:21,880
like she's much more steady than
you are.

1619
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:24,520
He's like, you're all like
boyish personality.

1620
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:26,240
You're all charm, you're all
charisma.

1621
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:29,040
You can't really act.
Nicholson could act like you

1622
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:31,520
can't fucked an act Peter
Sellers could act.

1623
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:35,400
You're no Peter Sellers.
He starts like he starts

1624
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,880
referencing on set the rumors
that have floated around Tom

1625
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:43,040
Cruise for years and he's gay.
He started like you.

1626
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:45,640
See like the scene in this?
The scene in that which is comes

1627
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,560
out of nowhere and serves no
purpose in the movie whatsoever

1628
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:53,960
except to like, kind of like
poke it cruises insecurities

1629
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:57,680
about that.
He has them attend separate

1630
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:01,600
counseling sessions to talk
about, like, any marital discord

1631
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:03,560
and again, forbids them to speak
of it.

1632
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:07,920
They move into the onset bedroom
in, like, Pinewood Studios.

1633
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:12,320
Like, that's where they like,
they live on set at points.

1634
01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:14,520
Yeah.
And all along the way, like Cruz

1635
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:17,080
is like, this is a miserable
shoot.

1636
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:19,960
And like Cruz is being asked
about it and he's like, Nope,

1637
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:21,520
it's great.
Like, what are you talking

1638
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:22,840
about?
Working with Kubrick is the

1639
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:24,640
best.
This is fan fucking tastic.

1640
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,160
I don't know what you're talking
about.

1641
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:29,600
Yeah.
It's like it's either this, it's

1642
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:32,280
like, it's like this is a lot
shorter than like scrubbing

1643
01:34:32,280 --> 01:34:35,000
decks with a toothbrush for a
billion years for the Lizard

1644
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:36,320
King.
So really.

1645
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:39,320
Well, I do have to say though,
that one thing I want to make

1646
01:34:39,320 --> 01:34:46,880
sure is understated is that
Nicole and Tom had their

1647
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:49,640
relationship issues probably
percolating.

1648
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:53,760
Oh, of course.
Well before they walked into the

1649
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:58,480
door for their first meeting.
I do not want to insinuate that

1650
01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:02,160
Kubrick was like, let me tear
apart this completely happy and

1651
01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:06,600
stable relationship.
They had obviously gone through

1652
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:12,160
a lot, which we all learn now
years after the fact.

1653
01:35:12,720 --> 01:35:16,760
But I think that, again,
Kubrick, for someone who doesn't

1654
01:35:16,760 --> 01:35:23,120
really understand people, has
this very weird read on people

1655
01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:26,600
where he's like, I know what I
can get out of them.

1656
01:35:27,600 --> 01:35:30,840
I know to what level I can push
them.

1657
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:32,800
And if they're just not gonna
go, they're not gonna go.

1658
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:35,400
And I can replace them easily
with someone else that will go

1659
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:38,160
to that place.
Do you buy There was like a

1660
01:35:38,160 --> 01:35:42,800
rumor that percolated for years.
So like, it was a sham marriage

1661
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:46,160
that like Kidman was after
Crews, like divorces Mimi

1662
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,200
Rogers.
And there are all these rumors

1663
01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:53,440
about his sexuality that like
Nicole Kidman is plucked out of

1664
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:57,880
relative obscurity at the time
and said, marry this guy, we'll

1665
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:02,080
give you like 5 movies, you'll
become a huge star and then you

1666
01:36:02,080 --> 01:36:03,760
can divorce and do what you
want.

1667
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,760
Like that was one of the rumors
that had floated around.

1668
01:36:07,920 --> 01:36:12,240
I don't, I don't really believe
that because I think they, you

1669
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:16,000
know, they were together for
some time, although, you know,

1670
01:36:16,000 --> 01:36:20,120
to kind of feed into the rumors.
Well, they hit they hit that

1671
01:36:20,120 --> 01:36:23,600
magic number for divorces in
California.

1672
01:36:24,360 --> 01:36:29,840
And so they, you know, there
were always rumors, especially

1673
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,360
like the fact that they didn't
have biological children.

1674
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:38,120
And then right after they
divorced, they both have

1675
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:42,760
biological children with their
next partners.

1676
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:47,560
And so it's one of those things
that, yeah, I, I get the rumors,

1677
01:36:47,560 --> 01:36:53,040
but I don't, you know, I, I
don't think that even someone

1678
01:36:53,040 --> 01:36:56,800
who really wants their come up
is going to say, you know what,

1679
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:03,280
I'm going to sacrifice all of
this for this because at the end

1680
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:05,360
of the day, there's just no
certainty.

1681
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,680
I can sit there and say, I'm
going to, I'm going to cast you

1682
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,800
in 4 plays.
Those plays could be terrible.

1683
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:15,320
And then what have you done?
But I think there's like enough

1684
01:37:15,320 --> 01:37:18,400
belief in herself because she's
so immensely talented.

1685
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:21,920
She's like give me the
opportunity and I will like she

1686
01:37:21,920 --> 01:37:26,120
and she works with like us Fin
Sant on to die for and this and

1687
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:29,880
she does Moulin Rouge, and I
mean she's a star in her own

1688
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:31,960
right.
Works with Jane Campion quite a

1689
01:37:31,960 --> 01:37:33,520
bit.
Tudes for like the serious

1690
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:35,360
stuff, Portrait of a lady, Top
of the lake.

1691
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:37,440
Like she and Jane get along
really well.

1692
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,120
Like she's in.
I mean, I'm kind of looking at

1693
01:37:40,120 --> 01:37:41,520
her filmography leading up to
this.

1694
01:37:41,520 --> 01:37:44,120
The two of them meet on Days of
Thunder, which she gets off of

1695
01:37:44,120 --> 01:37:47,720
the strength of Dead Calm and
then she does Billy Bath

1696
01:37:48,400 --> 01:37:51,840
Bathgate Far and away again,
reuniting her with Tom Cruise

1697
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:55,920
for Ron Howard, Malice, the the
weird Michael Keaton movie my

1698
01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:59,880
life and then, of course, to die
for which chef's kiss, one of

1699
01:37:59,880 --> 01:38:02,160
her best performances, I think
for my money.

1700
01:38:02,480 --> 01:38:05,720
And then chases that the same
year with Batman forever.

1701
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:09,800
The next year does portrait of a
lady of the Peacemaker of the

1702
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:12,720
year after that practical magic.
And then Eyes Wide shut and

1703
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:15,720
follows that up with Moulin
Rouge like and then the same

1704
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:18,160
year as that, she also has the
others and birthday girl like

1705
01:38:18,560 --> 01:38:23,560
she's on a tear, like she's
doing great, great work and like

1706
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,800
and then wins an Oscar the year
after that for the hours like

1707
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:29,320
and at that point she's cemented
she's.

1708
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:30,120
Arrived.
Yeah.

1709
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:33,400
So I'm going to suggest we fly
through like a little bit of

1710
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:35,840
this so we can get to the movie
proper.

1711
01:38:35,840 --> 01:38:37,800
I apologize.
I know we're going a bit.

1712
01:38:38,120 --> 01:38:41,120
I'm going a bit long here and
I'll just say that it was an

1713
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:42,920
arguable talk about Mike.
It is.

1714
01:38:42,920 --> 01:38:45,240
And it was just it's, you know,
like I feel like we're going to

1715
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:48,000
approach the 400 day continuous
shoot.

1716
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:52,200
This what was planned as a three
month shoot, then a six month

1717
01:38:52,200 --> 01:38:56,560
shoot goes for over 400 days.
There's like super low morale,

1718
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:00,040
morale on set.
Cruise actually does go to

1719
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:04,040
Kubrick at least once and says,
like, can you tell me at least

1720
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,440
if we're almost done?
Because, like, I have to get

1721
01:39:06,440 --> 01:39:09,160
back to Paramount.
Like, they put Mission

1722
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:12,280
Impossible 2 on hold.
He's like, people are waiting on

1723
01:39:12,280 --> 01:39:13,840
me.
Like, you got to let me know

1724
01:39:14,160 --> 01:39:17,200
what's going on here.
And Kubrick is like, eh, we get

1725
01:39:17,200 --> 01:39:21,360
to, we get to it.
And originally, Kubrick had

1726
01:39:21,360 --> 01:39:24,400
convinced his daughter Vivian to
score the film.

1727
01:39:24,680 --> 01:39:30,000
She then goes AWOL on him and he
writes her a lot of letters and

1728
01:39:30,000 --> 01:39:34,080
they just she never responds.
She never hears from her again.

1729
01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:39,080
She at that point, like it comes
to find out later, like she had

1730
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:43,040
fallen under the spell of
Scientology and like he was seen

1731
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,000
as like an unsupportive, I think
it's unsupportive person.

1732
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:50,360
Film goes into post production.
There's like a ton of stuff

1733
01:39:50,360 --> 01:39:52,960
there that we're going to maybe
we'll dig into what we talk

1734
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:56,880
about the movie.
But after all is said and done,

1735
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:03,840
he shows a cut of the film to
Tom and Nicole.

1736
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,280
And like the producers and they
love it.

1737
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:09,680
They're like, this is great.
And it's almost like he says, my

1738
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:13,600
work here is finished.
And six days later, March 7th,

1739
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:18,560
like 1999, he passes away.
Stanley Kubrick passes away from

1740
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:22,360
a heart attack.
Which leads to the question like

1741
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:27,800
how much there is a question.
How much of this is a Stanley

1742
01:40:27,800 --> 01:40:31,000
Kubrick film?
Because it is finished like the

1743
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:35,040
final post production is
finished after he's passed but.

1744
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:39,480
It's finished by his editor
Nigel Galt, and he's the kind of

1745
01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:41,120
the leader.
He starts literally the day

1746
01:40:41,120 --> 01:40:43,400
after the funeral, March 13th.
He starts the day after the

1747
01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:47,560
funeral and then he is assisted
by Christian Kubrick's widow,

1748
01:40:48,040 --> 01:40:50,360
Leon Vitale, his long time
assistant, who he mentioned

1749
01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:54,360
previously, his brother-in-law
and executive producer Jan

1750
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:58,600
Harlan and assistant editor
Melanie Veneer Cunejo.

1751
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:04,280
Like they are ostensibly kind of
and and this is a line I got

1752
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:09,040
from Joe McBride, Joseph McBride
in kind of a symposium on Orson

1753
01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:14,640
Welles's film, the his last
movie, The other Side of the

1754
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:16,280
Wind.
I don't know why it took me so

1755
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:17,160
long to pull that.
Sorry.

1756
01:41:17,240 --> 01:41:19,800
Where they they basically said
we are working in service of

1757
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:23,200
Orson is kind of like anyone who
had worked on that movie was

1758
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:25,800
kind of working in his service
to kind of bring it to fruition.

1759
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:27,320
And I feel like that's what
they're doing.

1760
01:41:27,960 --> 01:41:31,640
I think the only thing that
reeks of this is not Kubrick

1761
01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:37,240
designer intention were the CGI
like bikinis, the digital like

1762
01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:39,840
bottoms that they put on a lot
of the women in the orgy

1763
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:42,480
sequence.
Which that was a big point of

1764
01:41:42,480 --> 01:41:45,160
like half of Roger Ebert's
review of this movie is just

1765
01:41:45,480 --> 01:41:48,560
talking about the digital
underwear and how Kubrick would

1766
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,760
have hated it and how it you
know, covers up all the fun

1767
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:51,320
parts.
Damn.

1768
01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:53,720
It.
Which is a very Roger Ebert

1769
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:55,040
thing.
Ebert.

1770
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:59,560
Yelling I want to see more Bush
is a very Roger Ebert thing to

1771
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:01,920
say.
The man who gave us Beyond the

1772
01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:03,120
Valley of the Dolls.
Are you kidding?

1773
01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:05,920
Yes, of course.
Might have even been on his

1774
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:07,400
tombstone.
I don't know.

1775
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:11,920
Like Roger Ebert buried here.
I want to see more Bush that

1776
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:14,880
that seems like a very Ebert
thing to do.

1777
01:42:15,440 --> 01:42:18,640
Didn't try to pull the Hitchcock
trick of like, OK, I'll edit it,

1778
01:42:18,640 --> 01:42:20,760
then cut to nothing and sends it
back.

1779
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:22,640
And they're like, OK, we're
fine.

1780
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:25,480
Can you all talk about like how
this film was marketed?

1781
01:42:25,480 --> 01:42:29,320
Because it feels like what?
And this is not obviously not

1782
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:33,760
his fault, but what was promised
versus what was delivered I

1783
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:37,840
think maybe led to the at the
time like shaky reception of

1784
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:40,400
this.
I'm I'm inclined to agree,

1785
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:43,320
basically like basically
everything the Kubrick estate

1786
01:42:43,320 --> 01:42:46,680
submitted to Warner Brothers for
this movie was ignored with

1787
01:42:46,680 --> 01:42:49,280
regard to the marketing of the
film.

1788
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:52,400
His wife and stepdaughter make
posters.

1789
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:54,680
The posters that actually do
appear on the Criterion release

1790
01:42:54,680 --> 01:42:59,200
of the film, which are the masks
of Cruz and Kidman, which look

1791
01:42:59,560 --> 01:43:02,400
incredible and, like, very
haunting and very fitting with

1792
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:04,920
what this movie actually is.
And they're replaced with the,

1793
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:07,560
you know, the famous purple
poster with the two leads kind

1794
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:09,560
of naked and kissing.
And Nicole's kind of looking

1795
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,160
over her shoulder at you.
Like, I wish this was you.

1796
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:14,080
I was kissing instead of this
jabroni.

1797
01:43:14,360 --> 01:43:16,680
And you're kind of like, I wish
that was me, too.

1798
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:19,320
Nicole Kidman.
And I bet she did feel like

1799
01:43:19,320 --> 01:43:21,880
that.
She must have she divorced the

1800
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:24,920
man two years later.
I dropped in the chat a link to

1801
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:28,360
the picture of her walking out
of her lawyer's office from

1802
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:30,640
2001.
And it's just like her in

1803
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:33,440
various states of elation.
And it's it's an image that kind

1804
01:43:33,440 --> 01:43:35,680
of made its rounds on social
media not too long ago.

1805
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:39,920
And I just find it great.
But this is also the end of and

1806
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:42,000
and this is something I alluded
to earlier, the end of the 90s

1807
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:44,600
erotic thriller boom.
You've got movies all through

1808
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:48,160
that decade, A Fatal Attraction,
Basic Instinct, Jade, Wild

1809
01:43:48,160 --> 01:43:50,000
Things, The Hand That Rocks, The
Cradle.

1810
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:54,080
Yes, I have to shout out my boy
Willie Friedkin have to do it.

1811
01:43:54,720 --> 01:43:57,880
As awful as Jade is, which,
again, I don't think Jade is as

1812
01:43:57,880 --> 01:44:00,600
bad as a lot of his other
movies.

1813
01:44:01,080 --> 01:44:03,560
Yeah, it's not great, but like,
all these movies are kind of

1814
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:06,520
dominating the box office.
And so I think Warner Brothers

1815
01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,800
gets the idea.
Well, hey, we'll market it like

1816
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,800
one of these movies, like one of
these erotic thrillers, these

1817
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:15,040
movies that are, you know, very
sexy and very thrilling and a

1818
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:20,200
lot of, you know, flesh and skin
and heat and sweat and heavy

1819
01:44:20,200 --> 01:44:23,840
breathing and all of that.
And, you know, women breathing

1820
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:26,600
on men's necks and shit.
Like, oh, we love that.

1821
01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:29,760
Let's let's market it that way.
Let's put Chris Isaak's baby did

1822
01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:33,000
a bad, bad thing in the trailer
and in the movie because people

1823
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:37,160
know that means sexy good time.
And then what we end up getting

1824
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:40,640
is this very kind of again,
introspective almost.

1825
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:44,320
I mean, yes, it's it's played as
a thriller, but it's almost like

1826
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:47,400
a Lynchian kind of thriller
where the whole thing has this

1827
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,680
kind of bizarre, ethereal,
dreamlike quality with an with a

1828
01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:55,040
really not at all sexy orgy
right at the heart of it.

1829
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:58,920
And so I think people are are
going expecting one of those

1830
01:44:58,920 --> 01:45:03,080
movies I mentioned earlier and
getting instead this thing.

1831
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:06,240
And it, you know, it's the
classic case of we marketed this

1832
01:45:06,240 --> 01:45:09,080
movie wrong and it hurts our
thinking that it'll get butts

1833
01:45:09,080 --> 01:45:11,040
and seats.
And what it ends up doing is

1834
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:13,480
because people are expecting one
thing and we're delivering

1835
01:45:13,480 --> 01:45:18,680
another, it it ultimately kind
of falls flat in our faces and

1836
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:21,560
isn't as quite as profitable or
as successful as we want.

1837
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:24,080
It to be.
And I think a lot of what led to

1838
01:45:24,080 --> 01:45:27,000
the end just to kind of circle
back to a thing I kind of

1839
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:29,360
obliquely mentioned.
My partner and I were talking

1840
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:34,040
about how closely this movie
ties in with like the Clinton

1841
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:38,000
Lewinsky scandal and how that
kind of created this kind of

1842
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:41,960
backlash of the Moral Majority.
Sure, things like that.

1843
01:45:41,960 --> 01:45:45,120
And so movies like this just
fall out of favor.

1844
01:45:45,120 --> 01:45:45,960
Very.
Quickly.

1845
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:48,480
Very quickly.
Yeah, it comes like very.

1846
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:51,200
Yeah.
And, and that kind of leads us

1847
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:54,880
to this almost puritanical thing
that we have going on outside

1848
01:45:54,880 --> 01:45:58,280
our windows right now.
We're heading towards like the

1849
01:45:58,320 --> 01:46:02,360
edgelord days of the early 2000s
and mid tooth like we're kind of

1850
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,840
like going through those really
coming up very, very quickly.

1851
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:10,400
Damn you, Oliver Cromwell.
Movie is released mid-july.

1852
01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:14,800
Nothing says Christmas like the
swell, sweltering heat of July,

1853
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:20,000
but it's released.
I know also release in July.

1854
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:24,280
Fanny and Alexander releases in
July like it's it's kind of a

1855
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:28,880
dumping Iron Man 3.
You know your most of your Shane

1856
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:31,160
Black movies kind of dump in
this area as well.

1857
01:46:31,160 --> 01:46:33,400
And all of Shane Black movies
are Christmas movies except for

1858
01:46:33,560 --> 01:46:35,400
the predator.
That's a Halloween movie, but

1859
01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:37,640
the rest of them are Christmas
movies like that, that that's

1860
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:40,200
kind of a dumping ground for
these non conventional

1861
01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:45,360
Christmas.
But it gets very mixed critical

1862
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:47,480
reception, like very, very
mixed.

1863
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:50,920
Like critics are not a huge fan
of this.

1864
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:54,120
And they find it, like very
confounding.

1865
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:57,880
And audiences, the ones that
show up kind of feel the same

1866
01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:01,600
way.
Like on a $65 million budget, it

1867
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:05,360
makes like 65 million in the US
alone.

1868
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:09,040
And which is not what they were
especially like Tom Cruise at

1869
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:12,960
this time is like he gets out of
bed and the movie makes 100

1870
01:47:12,960 --> 01:47:14,160
million.
You know what I mean?

1871
01:47:14,160 --> 01:47:17,560
Like that is just it's not.
And we're not too far away from

1872
01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:21,560
like persons like Tom Cruise
flop era, like where he's not

1873
01:47:21,560 --> 01:47:24,920
going to like that star really
to the point where Paramount is

1874
01:47:24,920 --> 01:47:27,960
like, you're a disgrace.
We're cutting ties with you.

1875
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:30,960
It's like we're not Jeremy.
Renner, he'll, he'll lead our

1876
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:32,880
franchise.
Now, yes, exactly.

1877
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:36,280
A plan that always goes well.
Jeremy Renner for the win.

1878
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:40,640
Always in forever.
It's 160 million worldwide.

1879
01:47:40,640 --> 01:47:44,960
Not what they were anticipating.
And it comes out in a summer

1880
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:49,200
where like the two biggest
movies are like The Sixth Sense

1881
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:53,480
and the Blair Witch project.
These like kind of micro budget

1882
01:47:53,480 --> 01:47:57,960
small thrillers that eat this
movie, eat the masters lunch

1883
01:47:57,960 --> 01:48:01,720
like that's kind of amazing.
So, but overall, like Nicole,

1884
01:48:01,720 --> 01:48:05,680
can you speak to the legacy of
this movie now?

1885
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:09,520
Like now it is much remembered
much, much differently.

1886
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:16,640
Can you speak to like how people
view this movie 2526 years

1887
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:18,840
later?
Sure.

1888
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:22,960
I mean, I think, again, it's a
legacy.

1889
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:31,040
This is Kubrick's last film.
He passes away right before its

1890
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:35,320
premiere, right after some of
its initial screenings.

1891
01:48:36,520 --> 01:48:40,200
And I think that, you know, it's
an interesting thing.

1892
01:48:40,200 --> 01:48:44,400
Kubrick is a director that I
don't think people know how to

1893
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:48,360
market because his films are
kind of all over the place.

1894
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:53,440
You, you know, you can't put on
a box from the director of

1895
01:48:54,520 --> 01:49:00,200
Lolita and Metal Jacket.
Like, what is that?

1896
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:01,840
Like, what are you walking away
with?

1897
01:49:02,120 --> 01:49:05,200
What's your narrative?
Can you say like The Shining in

1898
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:12,240
2001 and Doctor Strangelove?
Yeah, I mean, I think you can

1899
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:16,440
get into like his spectacle
films and then you can get into

1900
01:49:16,440 --> 01:49:19,800
his like, I really want to fuck
with people, yeah, films.

1901
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:23,560
And so this is AI want to fuck
with people film.

1902
01:49:23,880 --> 01:49:27,840
What do you think he did better?
I think he did both

1903
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:33,640
spectacularly, but I would say I
I resonate with the I will fuck

1904
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:34,960
with people.
OK.

1905
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:39,760
Films, but I really like.
I love 2001.

1906
01:49:39,760 --> 01:49:43,560
I have a big 2001 poster.
The posters that I have of

1907
01:49:43,560 --> 01:49:53,600
Kubrick films in my apartment
now are 2001, Lolita and Paths

1908
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:58,280
of Glory.
I like that.

1909
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:01,440
I want to get an Eyes Wide Shut
because I think that this is a

1910
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:09,920
film that, you know, I think in
years past we've started to re

1911
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:12,000
evaluate it a little bit and
say, hey, there are some

1912
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:13,360
different things that are
happening.

1913
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:16,440
It wasn't just this hodgepodge
mess.

1914
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:21,600
It came out in a year that there
was a lot going on with film.

1915
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:26,640
This is, and I think that it
kind of got a little bit, very

1916
01:50:26,640 --> 01:50:30,240
surprisingly enough, you would
think someone like Kubrick and

1917
01:50:30,240 --> 01:50:34,240
Kidman and Cruz mashed together
in a pie.

1918
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:37,480
You couldn't do that, but you
can, and it kind of happened.

1919
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:43,520
Considered like one of the best
years ever in movie history.

1920
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:47,280
Like if not the best year, it is
widely considered like it's.

1921
01:50:47,680 --> 01:50:50,480
It's a banger of a year, like
from start to finish.

1922
01:50:50,480 --> 01:50:54,160
And like it's and yeah, I lived
in theaters this year.

1923
01:50:54,160 --> 01:50:57,080
Like it's just so much stuff we
got to see here is.

1924
01:50:57,080 --> 01:51:00,320
So here's as we go into like
talking about the movie, like

1925
01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:02,480
here is a question I have for
you.

1926
01:51:02,920 --> 01:51:05,360
And I think like one of the
things I wrestled with, like

1927
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:08,840
when like researching this and
reading was like part of what

1928
01:51:08,840 --> 01:51:14,480
made this project so appealing
to so many people to to do was

1929
01:51:14,480 --> 01:51:17,040
Kubrick.
Kubrick's legacy is like at the

1930
01:51:17,040 --> 01:51:20,640
time in the mid 90s, like when
this was like really ramping up.

1931
01:51:21,480 --> 01:51:24,040
He was the greatest living
director at the time.

1932
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:27,800
And I think I know your answer,
but like, would you say that

1933
01:51:27,800 --> 01:51:32,400
like that is like an accurate
assessment of him at the time,

1934
01:51:32,800 --> 01:51:35,840
mid 90s coming off like a period
where he hadn't.

1935
01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:39,640
I don't even want to qualify it.
So would you say at that time is

1936
01:51:39,640 --> 01:51:43,240
Steven puts on a nice comfy cozy
Christmas sweater.

1937
01:51:43,480 --> 01:51:48,240
I was saying to Nicole that like
his reputation.

1938
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:49,560
Headphones on the whole time I
heard.

1939
01:51:49,600 --> 01:51:52,280
You got it.
OK, So is that an accurate

1940
01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:56,600
representation?
I definitely think that Kubrick

1941
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:02,920
was in his own league, and I
think a lot of that had to do

1942
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:07,360
with the fact that he was
introverted and he didn't play

1943
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:10,840
by a lot of the Hollywood rules
that some of those other big

1944
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:13,120
names were.
And so there was that mystique

1945
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:16,480
to him, you know, even directors
that did have kind of that indie

1946
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:20,040
cred, you know, Soderbergh.
So you got to remember, like,

1947
01:52:20,040 --> 01:52:23,560
the 90s was also that time of
indie films really kinda

1948
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:27,880
absolutely kind of becoming
bigger than life.

1949
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:33,000
And so you have someone who
doesn't really make indie films

1950
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:35,960
but is kind of considered a
rebel when it comes to

1951
01:52:35,960 --> 01:52:40,200
filmmaking and picking on these
really difficult texts and

1952
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:42,040
trying to say something
different with them.

1953
01:52:42,400 --> 01:52:46,960
And so, yeah, I definitely think
he was in a league of his own.

1954
01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:51,280
And that's why, like, directors
who even Spielberg would push

1955
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:54,640
back against him and be like,
Nah, I'm not gonna be at your

1956
01:52:54,640 --> 01:52:56,880
beck and call.
I'm not putting the fucking fax

1957
01:52:56,880 --> 01:53:00,960
machine by my crapper so that
you can let me know your

1958
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:03,760
thoughts and feelings at 2:00
AM.

1959
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:08,680
He still there was still that
respect of like this is still

1960
01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:13,120
someone that you know.
Hey, I'll put my fax maybe in my

1961
01:53:13,120 --> 01:53:16,760
office and I will make sure to
go down first thing in the

1962
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:20,480
morning and and do a clean sweep
of what you may have sent me

1963
01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:23,160
during the fever pitch dreams of
the evening.

1964
01:53:23,200 --> 01:53:27,400
And yeah, I, he said.
He's one of my favorites.

1965
01:53:28,200 --> 01:53:35,120
Him Cronenberg to me, are really
people who not just define their

1966
01:53:35,120 --> 01:53:39,120
own genres and their own works,
but really transformed the way

1967
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:43,760
that we think about genre films
and how directors work within

1968
01:53:43,760 --> 01:53:47,960
those bubbles.
I think he's someone who, if not

1969
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:52,080
widely regarded by the public as
a whole, was certainly a

1970
01:53:52,080 --> 01:53:55,280
director's director.
Like he's the kind of filmmaker

1971
01:53:55,280 --> 01:53:58,760
that other directors really love
and notice and take take a lot

1972
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:02,000
from.
Again, his his visual stylism

1973
01:54:02,040 --> 01:54:05,840
like, but he was also one of the
few that was able to crossover

1974
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:09,360
in very interesting ways and and
create these movies that would

1975
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,800
become kind of indelible and
capital.

1976
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:15,440
I important as well.
So there.

1977
01:54:15,440 --> 01:54:18,440
I mean, the movie was marketed
on the strength.

1978
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:22,920
I mean, I just watched the
trailer and it's it's Cruz, it's

1979
01:54:22,920 --> 01:54:26,680
Kidman, it's Kubrick, those
three names in that order.

1980
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:30,000
So he's still a big enough name
with the public that they wreck

1981
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:32,720
even though he's only directed
Probably like what, like 12-13

1982
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:35,560
films 12?
Total 13 altogether.

1983
01:54:36,640 --> 01:54:39,160
Right.
So that that that is still

1984
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:43,360
again, just based on those the
strength of those films and

1985
01:54:43,360 --> 01:54:47,040
their cultural footprint.
I mean, 2001 is essential.

1986
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:50,880
The Shining, Indelible, Full
Metal Jacket, Undeniable

1987
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:55,040
Clockwork Orange, unmistakable.
Like all of these films of his

1988
01:54:55,640 --> 01:54:59,200
kind of plant their flag in the
cultural consciousness in a way

1989
01:54:59,480 --> 01:55:02,400
that even if you don't
recognize, it's the same guy

1990
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:04,920
that directed them all.
Because again, he does, he's got

1991
01:55:04,920 --> 01:55:08,280
a visual style, but he's making
so many different kinds of

1992
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:11,680
movies and doing so many
different kinds of things that

1993
01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:13,960
you might not recognize.
Oh, this is the same guy that

1994
01:55:13,960 --> 01:55:17,160
directed all of these.
You do at least know the name

1995
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:20,960
and you recognize one or two or
three of those things that that

1996
01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:24,360
you can really resonate with.
And I think that is the strength

1997
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:27,280
of Kubrick.
And I, I didn't know who Stanley

1998
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:29,680
Kubrick was until this movie was
coming out.

1999
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:32,080
And a friend of mine was
basically dumping the Kubrick

2000
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:35,680
lore on me being like, hey, this
guy, he's a great director.

2001
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:37,640
He directed all these great
movies that you have at this

2002
01:55:37,640 --> 01:55:40,280
point never heard of.
And he's directed this movie and

2003
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:43,520
he died and it's coming out and
it's going to be really wild,

2004
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:46,880
like a lot of people are like.
And I watched and I was just

2005
01:55:46,880 --> 01:55:49,600
like, Nicole Kidman looks like
she didn't get very naked in

2006
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:50,760
this movie.
That's interesting.

2007
01:55:51,080 --> 01:55:54,720
Like again high school Steven.
Which again, first shot of the

2008
01:55:54,720 --> 01:55:59,600
movie is the first thing we see.
Is Nicole Kidman stripping down

2009
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:03,600
like that is the first thing we
see and she looks incredible.

2010
01:56:03,880 --> 01:56:07,400
And I think like to that like
when that's what you first start

2011
01:56:07,400 --> 01:56:10,200
with, like your audience is
going to have an expectation

2012
01:56:10,200 --> 01:56:14,040
that and that's not his fault,
Like, but that expectation, I

2013
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:16,120
think it's not met throughout
the rest of the film.

2014
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:19,040
And that again, I am not blaming
him for that.

2015
01:56:19,040 --> 01:56:21,680
That's not what he's necessarily
interested in.

2016
01:56:22,600 --> 01:56:24,920
And I don't think that's the
movie he wanted to put out

2017
01:56:25,080 --> 01:56:29,160
either cuz like his press kit
had like very specific notes

2018
01:56:29,160 --> 01:56:32,400
that were approved before his
death and Universal decided or

2019
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:34,800
Universal WB decided to put out
none of them.

2020
01:56:35,200 --> 01:56:37,960
Like we're just not doing this.
That's not what's happening

2021
01:56:37,960 --> 01:56:40,120
here.
And it kind of, it's kind of

2022
01:56:40,120 --> 01:56:41,160
insane.
Yeah.

2023
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:45,840
I one of the things that also
really strikes me, I guess about

2024
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:48,960
the marketing and just how it
translates into the film.

2025
01:56:49,960 --> 01:56:52,040
You know, it is a very sexy
film.

2026
01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:57,120
You know, there is some nice
little shots of Nicole Kidman.

2027
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:02,680
Very much enjoy.
But I think also it's not

2028
01:57:03,280 --> 01:57:08,360
there's a lack of male gaze to
hit and there's a lack of like,

2029
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:14,320
sensationalizing her body.
She's just a beautiful woman and

2030
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:21,400
she's the wife.
And I find that really cool

2031
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,080
because it's not just look at
this goddess that we're just

2032
01:57:25,080 --> 01:57:29,840
going to like not have any, you
know, personality with, not have

2033
01:57:29,840 --> 01:57:34,240
any kind of that deep character
engagement with and understand

2034
01:57:35,160 --> 01:57:39,880
we're actually going to see, you
know, Yeah, we see her, you

2035
01:57:39,880 --> 01:57:43,160
know, she's beautiful.
We also see her peeing and as

2036
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:47,440
she's getting ready, and it's
these very real moment.

2037
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:52,840
And I just love the mix of that.
It just makes it a whole

2038
01:57:52,840 --> 01:57:57,240
different kind of film.
And the fact that I can be there

2039
01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:01,760
and say, like, yeah, there's,
you know, these shots of this

2040
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:06,960
very beautiful woman naked,
scantily clad in underwear,

2041
01:58:07,320 --> 01:58:10,360
whatever, and be like.
But it's not.

2042
01:58:11,360 --> 01:58:15,120
It's not what you think it is,
right?

2043
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:17,600
There's something else there.
It's not.

2044
01:58:17,800 --> 01:58:18,840
But I think.
Really.

2045
01:58:18,840 --> 01:58:23,480
It's not like lascivious.
Yeah, What works about that

2046
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:26,760
opening?
The opening scenes is like, we

2047
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:31,280
see her and we appreciate her,
and Bill takes her for granted.

2048
01:58:31,480 --> 01:58:32,800
She's like, how does my hair
look?

2049
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:35,000
He's like, it looks great.
You're not even looking at me.

2050
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:38,040
Like it's at a point where he's
taking her for granted.

2051
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:42,040
They go to this fancy party
where they don't like she knows

2052
01:58:42,040 --> 01:58:45,760
they don't really fit in and he
wants to very much fit in.

2053
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:49,040
I feel like he, Kubrick, would
have been like a very big fan of

2054
01:58:49,040 --> 01:58:52,280
Holden Caulfield.
He's like, these people are all

2055
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:54,360
phonies.
Every single person at this

2056
01:58:54,360 --> 01:58:56,920
party, they're a bunch of
fucking frauds.

2057
01:58:57,360 --> 01:59:01,640
And like, I feel like Kidman's
character of Alice gets that

2058
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:05,240
where Bill thinks he like fits
right in.

2059
01:59:05,240 --> 01:59:08,320
And you know, the amount of
times he just says like, it's

2060
01:59:08,320 --> 01:59:11,200
OK, I am a doctor throughout
this movie.

2061
01:59:11,200 --> 01:59:13,040
Like that actually means
something.

2062
01:59:13,040 --> 01:59:17,760
Like it opens doors for him.
And like the the realization at

2063
01:59:17,760 --> 01:59:21,080
the end, what crushes him is
when he realizes like, he's

2064
01:59:21,080 --> 01:59:26,200
really a peon here.
The thing and that's the hubris

2065
01:59:26,200 --> 01:59:29,800
that gets him into that makes
him think he can fit in at the

2066
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:34,080
orgy like he's like, I can, you
know, I belong in these circles.

2067
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:37,360
I fit in these circles.
I can walk in here and no one

2068
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:40,000
will know.
While very obvious, making very

2069
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:44,480
obvious mistakes like showing up
in a fucking taxi cab, leaving

2070
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:48,240
the receipt for his tuxedo
rental in the pocket of his

2071
01:59:48,240 --> 01:59:52,120
coat.
Like just and, and the, the

2072
01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:55,200
oblivious is like clearly
sticking out like a sore thumb.

2073
01:59:55,400 --> 01:59:58,680
Walking in after everyone else
has already arrived and standing

2074
01:59:58,680 --> 02:00:01,840
painfully off to the side.
Walking into a room where two

2075
02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:04,640
people are having sex and
standing in front of four other

2076
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:06,880
people.
Like like not slipping behind a

2077
02:00:06,880 --> 02:00:09,960
couch or in front of a
bookshelf, instead just standing

2078
02:00:09,960 --> 02:00:12,160
right in the middle of it to get
as close to the action as he

2079
02:00:12,160 --> 02:00:14,800
can.
Like he, he doesn't belong.

2080
02:00:14,800 --> 02:00:18,160
It's clear to everyone but him
that he doesn't belong.

2081
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:20,600
But he's so hubristic.
He's so inside his own head.

2082
02:00:20,960 --> 02:00:24,120
And full of his own self
importance that he doesn't

2083
02:00:24,120 --> 02:00:26,240
realize it.
Well, and that's part of the

2084
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:32,520
crush of, you know, with Alice,
you know, her fantasy isn't

2085
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,720
about another doctor.
It's about a sailor and probably

2086
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:38,840
someone that he feels is beneath
him.

2087
02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:43,440
But this is a man that was able
to give her something in this

2088
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:47,200
fantasy life that he couldn't
and that he wouldn't.

2089
02:00:47,560 --> 02:00:51,600
And so I think that that's you
know, I think again, it's that

2090
02:00:51,600 --> 02:00:56,600
journey of how do I how do I
define myself back to the place

2091
02:00:56,600 --> 02:01:00,840
that I think I should be?
And it not happening him at each

2092
02:01:00,920 --> 02:01:03,720
turn making the situation worse
for himself.

2093
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:09,720
And I think that's the comedy is
where it's like this guy just

2094
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:13,240
for someone who is supposed to
be so fucking smart, is the

2095
02:01:13,240 --> 02:01:17,160
dumbest person in.
The room absolutely and I self

2096
02:01:17,160 --> 02:01:18,400
aware person.
In the room.

2097
02:01:20,240 --> 02:01:22,600
And what's?
Very interesting weaponization

2098
02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:26,200
of Cruz's persona.
Who is so hyper aware and so

2099
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:30,040
managed and so everything is
like, what is the public?

2100
02:01:30,040 --> 02:01:33,600
He controls so much about what
the public can see and like,

2101
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:36,960
this is the opposite here.
And like he's a blank slate.

2102
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:39,320
Nicole, you doing OK?
Yeah.

2103
02:01:39,720 --> 02:01:47,240
OK, then, if we're, what I find
really fascinating is Alice is

2104
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:52,160
presented with this opportunity
to cheat and she holds all the

2105
02:01:52,160 --> 02:01:55,200
cards in this, even if we don't
realize it at 1st.

2106
02:01:55,520 --> 02:01:59,360
And she like very deftly excuses
herself.

2107
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:02,640
Like she enjoys the attention as
we all do.

2108
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:07,040
Like, it's flattering to be
wanted by this other person, but

2109
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:08,680
she's like, at the end of the
day.

2110
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:12,640
And she's like, very coyly and
casually, like, flicks her

2111
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:15,440
fingers, like, I am married.
Like, this isn't going to

2112
02:02:15,440 --> 02:02:19,600
happen.
Where every time Tom Cruise's

2113
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:24,280
Bill is presented with an
opportunity to cheat, he doesn't

2114
02:02:24,280 --> 02:02:27,880
stop himself.
Something else stops him.

2115
02:02:28,520 --> 02:02:33,080
He gets a the only time I think
it's maybe with Marion.

2116
02:02:33,080 --> 02:02:37,240
And I think that's because like
he feels like she's beneath him.

2117
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:40,520
You know, that's maybe the
closest it comes to him

2118
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:43,760
extraditing himself.
And he hasn't maybe also like

2119
02:02:43,760 --> 02:02:48,440
built things up, but he is going
up to like potentially fuck

2120
02:02:48,440 --> 02:02:51,080
those models.
And I think maybe he feels

2121
02:02:51,080 --> 02:02:55,000
relief every time he's pulled
away, not because he wants to be

2122
02:02:55,000 --> 02:02:58,680
faithful, but honestly I think
he wouldn't know what to do with

2123
02:02:58,680 --> 02:03:00,720
himself if he were to try to go
through.

2124
02:03:00,720 --> 02:03:03,000
With him, yeah, that's a good
point.

2125
02:03:03,560 --> 02:03:06,960
Like it, Yeah.
He is his own undoing in every

2126
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:12,320
single circumstance like and I,
I would think the, the, the key

2127
02:03:12,320 --> 02:03:15,560
thing about Marion is that's the
first one that happens, I think

2128
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:19,040
after the models.
And then after that, it's just

2129
02:03:19,080 --> 02:03:24,520
like situation after situation
or like when Rachel Beija is

2130
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:28,160
pretty much offering up Lily
Sobieski on a platter and he

2131
02:03:28,160 --> 02:03:32,120
like you can tell he's kind of
skeeved by it and she's really

2132
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:34,800
into it.
And he's just kind of like, I

2133
02:03:34,880 --> 02:03:38,560
need to not be here anymore.
I need to go find, you know, a

2134
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:41,240
more perhaps a more slightly
more age appropriate person,

2135
02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:43,320
although that's never been a Tom
Cruise concern.

2136
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:45,720
Let's be clear.
Just I'm just, you know, the

2137
02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:47,800
fact that he's always paired
with women half his age in all

2138
02:03:47,800 --> 02:03:50,440
of his movies these days is all
I'm referring to.

2139
02:03:51,480 --> 02:03:53,520
I don't think that's necessarily
a Tom Cruise thing.

2140
02:03:53,520 --> 02:03:56,520
That's a Hollywood thing.
Right.

2141
02:03:57,080 --> 02:03:59,760
So I I'm not going to fault him
for, I'm not going to fault him

2142
02:03:59,760 --> 02:04:03,440
for that.
I feel like I'm defending him a

2143
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,360
lot here.
And I to be clear, I think this

2144
02:04:06,360 --> 02:04:10,680
guy is really skeevy, but.
Scientology's latest recruit,

2145
02:04:10,680 --> 02:04:12,640
Mike.
Simeon anyway, he just.

2146
02:04:12,720 --> 02:04:15,520
Went through auditing, got his
Deaton levels checked.

2147
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:20,200
But I feel like I'm defending
him way more than I was planning

2148
02:04:20,200 --> 02:04:24,440
on in this is, I mean, I put the
question in the notes, like, do

2149
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:26,280
you think it's hard to beat Tom
Cruise?

2150
02:04:26,600 --> 02:04:29,680
Like, do you think like waking
up every day is Tom Cruise is a

2151
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:32,400
difficult thing?
It has to be exact.

2152
02:04:32,400 --> 02:04:34,360
For him, yeah.
For him it is.

2153
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:35,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

2154
02:04:36,280 --> 02:04:38,160
Because he wants.
He's always on.

2155
02:04:38,160 --> 02:04:44,280
Yeah, always.
And I think again, wanting to, I

2156
02:04:44,280 --> 02:04:48,160
think there's also this idea of
wanting to be something that

2157
02:04:48,160 --> 02:04:54,600
you're just not going to be.
As great as Tom may be in a lot

2158
02:04:54,600 --> 02:04:57,720
of different facets, he has his
shortcomings.

2159
02:04:57,720 --> 02:05:01,360
Literally.
He's short and famously so as

2160
02:05:01,360 --> 02:05:05,120
someone who is well under 5
foot, I have no beef with that.

2161
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:10,040
You would probably be a giant to
me and that would be fine.

2162
02:05:10,680 --> 02:05:14,640
But you know, there's.
The whole kid is like 6 feet

2163
02:05:14,680 --> 02:05:17,760
tall like she is not right.
Yeah, yeah.

2164
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:24,480
But you know, I think that to,
you know, you have someone like

2165
02:05:24,480 --> 02:05:28,520
Kidman who I think is so
effortless and kind of her own

2166
02:05:28,520 --> 02:05:32,440
body and her own persona.
She never really feels like

2167
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:34,800
she's struggling to figure it
out.

2168
02:05:34,880 --> 02:05:38,320
She feels very secure.
And that's something that I find

2169
02:05:38,320 --> 02:05:41,400
really interesting about her
characters, is that all of her

2170
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:45,080
characters have a bit of that
assurance, which makes them

2171
02:05:45,200 --> 02:05:48,640
interesting to watch in the
film.

2172
02:05:49,680 --> 02:05:52,400
Tom just doesn't really have
that in this film.

2173
02:05:52,480 --> 02:05:58,000
It's kind of like Kubrick said,
all of that, you know, chest

2174
02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:02,920
puffing that you've done.
I'm deflating it now.

2175
02:06:03,200 --> 02:06:10,720
You are Tom, you are the short
man next to this wife that even

2176
02:06:10,720 --> 02:06:13,720
though you are Tom Cruise,
people are going to be like,

2177
02:06:14,320 --> 02:06:18,040
really?
Yeah, you are beneath her in

2178
02:06:18,040 --> 02:06:20,640
every conceivable way.
Yeah.

2179
02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:25,200
And then to have this throne in
your face, I it's just something

2180
02:06:25,200 --> 02:06:28,920
that's really compelling.
And it does make me wonder, you

2181
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:32,480
know, we talk a lot about the
conditioning that Kubrick does

2182
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:35,920
with his actors to kind of get
them in the into the mind state

2183
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:38,920
for this.
It kind of makes me wonder what

2184
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:41,280
Cruz came to the table with to
be like.

2185
02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:44,440
I got to let myself just be kind
of laid out raw here.

2186
02:06:44,760 --> 02:06:48,120
I would like that to be the case
because it would make sense.

2187
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:52,280
He then goes on to do Magnolia,
which is another really, really

2188
02:06:52,280 --> 02:06:57,120
raw, intense performance.
And I think one of the most, you

2189
02:06:57,120 --> 02:06:59,800
know, someone asked me like my
top five favorite non horror

2190
02:06:59,800 --> 02:07:02,160
films of all time.
This is at the top.

2191
02:07:02,160 --> 02:07:07,200
And it's because of his role.
And especially when he has you

2192
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:11,000
have again, someone who is
presenting.

2193
02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:14,720
But the minute that they are
next to their dad, the minute

2194
02:07:14,720 --> 02:07:19,520
that they are put in their
place, they deflate.

2195
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:26,480
They just become a puddle and I
find that really captivating

2196
02:07:26,480 --> 02:07:29,880
that he can go there.
And I think you see that with

2197
02:07:29,880 --> 02:07:33,280
like the Sydney Pollock
character here, like with the

2198
02:07:33,280 --> 02:07:37,240
Victor character here, like he's
very much like the dad stand in

2199
02:07:37,240 --> 02:07:41,640
like Tom, like Bill wants to be
seen this appear of him, but

2200
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:45,880
he's pretty quickly like dressed
down by him, like where he's

2201
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:48,360
like Pollock's like, let's just
cut the bullshit.

2202
02:07:48,360 --> 02:07:50,040
Like you're in way over your
head.

2203
02:07:50,040 --> 02:07:51,880
You have no idea what you're
playing with.

2204
02:07:52,000 --> 02:07:55,440
And that's what persistence
precipitates, like Tom's

2205
02:07:55,440 --> 02:07:59,200
breakdown.
I'm not often of the mindset

2206
02:07:59,200 --> 02:08:01,960
like it's all a dream or it's
all a fantasy.

2207
02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:05,400
But I think you can make a case
for at least a reading or

2208
02:08:05,400 --> 02:08:09,320
interpretation of that here.
Because like in all of these

2209
02:08:09,320 --> 02:08:14,480
like settings, like Bill is the
gallant one, Like he he like

2210
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:19,280
stands apart from Mary and he
rebuffs her only to like later

2211
02:08:19,280 --> 02:08:22,520
on be like, you know what?
Maybe that is a booty call I'll

2212
02:08:22,520 --> 02:08:24,160
make.
I've exhausted all other

2213
02:08:24,160 --> 02:08:26,480
possible.
And then her fiance picks up.

2214
02:08:26,480 --> 02:08:29,640
So he hangs up.
He sees himself the center of

2215
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:32,640
this grand conspiracy that has
played out.

2216
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:36,400
He think you said we made
mention of like the costume shop

2217
02:08:36,400 --> 02:08:40,480
is called the rainbow after he'd
been promised to be taken over

2218
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:43,600
the other side.
There is like this ethereal kind

2219
02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:47,600
of feel to this and I, you know,
made the comment like the IT

2220
02:08:47,600 --> 02:08:52,600
would pair this movie with the
triple feature of Scorsese's

2221
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:56,080
after hours.
Like this plays like a less

2222
02:08:56,080 --> 02:09:01,880
madcap version of of After Hours
and also American Psycho.

2223
02:09:01,880 --> 02:09:07,000
I think Christian Bale is
playing like a basically tapping

2224
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:13,040
into the Tom Cruise like blank
slate public persona in his

2225
02:09:13,320 --> 02:09:17,120
portrayal of Patrick Bateman.
Like that's very much what I see

2226
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:22,120
when I watch this movie.
I'm like that is that is Patrick

2227
02:09:22,120 --> 02:09:28,200
Bateman, but not as like a
finance bro as a doctor bro.

2228
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:32,960
And the evolution of those from
after hours to Eyes Wide Shut to

2229
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:38,320
American Psycho, you get kind of
gradually like into the more is

2230
02:09:38,320 --> 02:09:41,240
it real?
Is it a dream as you carry

2231
02:09:41,240 --> 02:09:43,320
through those three films?
So I think that's kind of a

2232
02:09:43,400 --> 02:09:45,520
perfect setup for the three of
them too.

2233
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:49,240
Like that's really well done.
And even like her dream halfway

2234
02:09:49,240 --> 02:09:51,480
through the movie after he comes
back from the orgy where she

2235
02:09:51,480 --> 02:09:55,280
basically recounts the orgy back
to him as though she were a

2236
02:09:55,280 --> 02:09:57,960
participant.
Like is that did that happen in

2237
02:09:57,960 --> 02:10:00,360
her head?
Like if the mask is there on the

2238
02:10:00,360 --> 02:10:04,000
bed when he comes home, like who
put that there?

2239
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:06,560
Did she find it?
Did he accidentally leave it

2240
02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:09,200
there?
And like, and that's the thing

2241
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:11,920
that ultimately makes him break
and confess everything.

2242
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:14,840
Like there's so much, there's so
many layers to this.

2243
02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:17,160
And I think it's kept
intentionally vague.

2244
02:10:17,160 --> 02:10:20,560
Like I, I discussed Twin Peaks
the return with our, our friends

2245
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:22,360
over at the Spectre Cinema Club
yesterday.

2246
02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:26,040
And we, you know, this, this
whole idea of what is real and

2247
02:10:26,040 --> 02:10:30,320
what is not is, is a very lynchy
and conceit and living in the

2248
02:10:30,320 --> 02:10:32,040
abstractions and the
contradiction.

2249
02:10:32,240 --> 02:10:35,040
And this feels like Kubrick kind
of putting his toe into that

2250
02:10:35,040 --> 02:10:36,640
water.
Like this is a wild thing to

2251
02:10:36,640 --> 02:10:40,040
watch the day after you finish
watching Twin Peaks the return.

2252
02:10:40,040 --> 02:10:43,600
I just have to say like it, it,
it kind of puts you in kind of a

2253
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:47,200
very specific headspace that
you're like, God, wait, what,

2254
02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:48,480
what am I watching here?
Like it?

2255
02:10:48,480 --> 02:10:51,880
It really contextualizes it in a
fantastic and fascinating way.

2256
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:56,160
And so I was just watching this
kind of with new eyes, my eyes

2257
02:10:56,160 --> 02:11:00,760
wide shut perhaps for the like,
just like really kind of getting

2258
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:03,280
a sense of this thing and taking
a different perspective and a

2259
02:11:03,280 --> 02:11:05,480
different tone on it.
And it really does.

2260
02:11:05,480 --> 02:11:09,280
Like this central orgy is kind
of the linchpin, but everything

2261
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:12,000
in the movie is kind of leading
up to or flowing out of it.

2262
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:16,200
And so it's wild, Like, what is
real, what is not?

2263
02:11:16,440 --> 02:11:18,240
How much of this is happening in
his head?

2264
02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:20,040
How much of this is actually
true?

2265
02:11:20,240 --> 02:11:24,320
Like, in his review, Ebert says,
I really just wanted, like, is

2266
02:11:24,320 --> 02:11:26,760
he supposed to just take
everything that Victor says at

2267
02:11:26,760 --> 02:11:29,120
face value?
And Ebert's like, I really would

2268
02:11:29,120 --> 02:11:31,960
have loved one final scene where
he's just walking down the hall

2269
02:11:31,960 --> 02:11:35,000
of a hallway and sees a a
stretcher wheeled by with the

2270
02:11:35,000 --> 02:11:37,520
corpse of a piano player on it.
Like Ebert's.

2271
02:11:37,520 --> 02:11:39,800
Like, I think that would be the
perfect ending to this movie.

2272
02:11:39,800 --> 02:11:42,480
And I might bump it up to four
stars instead of 3 1/2.

2273
02:11:42,480 --> 02:11:49,920
But like But I find I find the
uncertainty the most fascinating

2274
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:53,600
part of it, personally.
It what?

2275
02:11:53,800 --> 02:11:56,440
Yeah, it is.
It's frustrating and it's

2276
02:11:56,440 --> 02:11:59,960
opaqueness at times, but that's
also kind of the charm of it, is

2277
02:11:59,960 --> 02:12:02,800
that we can project a lot onto
it.

2278
02:12:02,800 --> 02:12:07,320
And what I'm interested, like
the the central argument that

2279
02:12:07,320 --> 02:12:12,080
sends Bill down this path, I'm
interested in both of your takes

2280
02:12:12,080 --> 02:12:17,080
on the argument that Alice and
Bill have and Alice like

2281
02:12:17,320 --> 02:12:23,400
confessing that she's had like
impure thoughts about other men

2282
02:12:23,680 --> 02:12:28,720
that she's never acted on.
It is wild because it just goes

2283
02:12:28,720 --> 02:12:37,320
to show, I think, how the kind
of sexual lives of women is

2284
02:12:37,320 --> 02:12:42,360
weaponized against them that
even just a fantasy is horrific

2285
02:12:42,400 --> 02:12:44,840
and destroying.
But a man can go out and

2286
02:12:44,840 --> 02:12:48,040
participate in orgies and it's
like, yeah, it's a Tuesday.

2287
02:12:48,080 --> 02:12:52,440
So we I think that that's
something that is obviously on a

2288
02:12:52,440 --> 02:12:57,360
very, like, superficial level.
But again, it just really speaks

2289
02:12:57,360 --> 02:13:03,080
to this like, you know that
fragile masculinity of the

2290
02:13:03,080 --> 02:13:07,160
minute that you're not the
center of someone else's world.

2291
02:13:08,120 --> 02:13:12,280
Everything turns upside down and
you have to find a new axis.

2292
02:13:12,280 --> 02:13:14,920
And that's what this movie is
really about.

2293
02:13:14,920 --> 02:13:18,200
Like, how else can, who else is
going to define me if I can't

2294
02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:20,680
define myself by that?
You're right.

2295
02:13:20,720 --> 02:13:24,120
And.
The core of this movie is

2296
02:13:24,120 --> 02:13:28,680
fragile masculinity.
It is not wild sexual orgy, but

2297
02:13:28,680 --> 02:13:33,800
you're not getting 65 million to
make a movie about fragile

2298
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:36,480
masculinity unless there's an
orgy in it.

2299
02:13:36,480 --> 02:13:38,080
Like, that's what gets you the
6th.

2300
02:13:38,360 --> 02:13:42,160
That's what bumps you up to
like, you know, a $65 million

2301
02:13:42,160 --> 02:13:46,000
budget.
And Nicole, what Amitra said,

2302
02:13:46,000 --> 02:13:49,520
too, is like, Bill sets his own
trap in this argument.

2303
02:13:49,520 --> 02:13:53,080
Like he starts with him saying
to Alice like, well, of course

2304
02:13:53,080 --> 02:13:56,280
he wanted to talk to you.
You're incredibly beautiful and

2305
02:13:56,280 --> 02:13:57,400
she's like, well, what does that
mean?

2306
02:13:57,400 --> 02:13:59,600
He's like, well, that's why men
talk to women.

2307
02:13:59,600 --> 02:14:02,920
And she's like, well, by that
logic, you wanted to fuck those

2308
02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:04,960
two women.
If that's all that guy wanted to

2309
02:14:04,960 --> 02:14:07,240
do because they were beautiful,
right?

2310
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:09,960
Like he just he's so fucking
dumb.

2311
02:14:09,960 --> 02:14:13,640
Like he sets a trap, hubris.
And then like he's like, here's

2312
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:16,720
a bear trap.
Now let me like belly flop onto

2313
02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:19,000
it and they go, why is my
stomach?

2314
02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:21,880
Hurt mine.
Where she comes back first is

2315
02:14:22,400 --> 02:14:25,480
your appearance.
And she's a brilliant person

2316
02:14:25,480 --> 02:14:30,080
herself with a career and a very
rich life.

2317
02:14:30,080 --> 02:14:35,480
And so he's like, no, they
couldn't be, you know,

2318
02:14:35,480 --> 02:14:37,960
enthralled by you as a person.
That of course.

2319
02:14:38,400 --> 02:14:40,920
And like, I kind of get the
idea, like, yeah, you see an

2320
02:14:40,920 --> 02:14:44,840
attractive person, your eyes is
going to be like, OK, that's a

2321
02:14:45,040 --> 02:14:48,320
that's an attractive person,
right?

2322
02:14:48,680 --> 02:14:53,320
But to go and to like want to
pursue them and have

2323
02:14:53,320 --> 02:14:58,200
conversation with them, that's a
that takes something a little

2324
02:14:58,200 --> 02:15:02,160
bit different.
And he really wants to downplay

2325
02:15:02,160 --> 02:15:05,680
that on her, to kind of minimize
her, but she just comes back at

2326
02:15:05,680 --> 02:15:08,560
him in the perfect way.
Rightly, yeah.

2327
02:15:09,600 --> 02:15:14,040
He breaks out the You're the
mother of my child, like again.

2328
02:15:14,040 --> 02:15:19,080
He's reducing her to a role, a
role that like serves him.

2329
02:15:19,600 --> 02:15:24,240
And it's like, that is it's not
the solid argument you think

2330
02:15:24,240 --> 02:15:26,880
you're making.
And then he dismisses her

2331
02:15:27,360 --> 02:15:32,360
increasingly agitated feelings
rather than take even a minute

2332
02:15:32,360 --> 02:15:36,480
to self interrogate and say like
where am I wrong here?

2333
02:15:36,600 --> 02:15:41,960
He's literally Sideshow Bob
stepping on a rake over and over

2334
02:15:41,960 --> 02:15:44,320
again with each argument even
well.

2335
02:15:44,920 --> 02:15:48,240
Bringing up the child is such a
bizarre thing in this movie

2336
02:15:48,240 --> 02:15:51,200
because, yes, they have a child.
It's obviously there.

2337
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:57,440
We barely see the child.
Yeah, she's like, come on.

2338
02:15:58,080 --> 02:16:01,920
And so it's kind of like you're
you're the mother of my child,

2339
02:16:01,920 --> 02:16:03,600
the child that no one knows
about.

2340
02:16:03,600 --> 02:16:09,840
And you, we get a nanny so that
we can go out to this swanky

2341
02:16:09,840 --> 02:16:13,000
party and then you come home and
then I go to orgy.

2342
02:16:13,240 --> 02:16:13,680
Yeah.
Yeah.

2343
02:16:13,840 --> 02:16:16,800
And a Kidman child.
A mother to that child than than

2344
02:16:16,800 --> 02:16:18,800
he is like he.
I think he says like 2 lines to

2345
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:20,800
her the whole movie.
She's doing math and everything

2346
02:16:20,800 --> 02:16:22,040
else.
She's hanging out with him.

2347
02:16:22,160 --> 02:16:24,000
Her, yeah.
Right.

2348
02:16:24,480 --> 02:16:27,240
Like she's the one that's like,
Mommy, I I want to stay up and

2349
02:16:27,240 --> 02:16:28,560
watch The Nutcracker.
Oh, OK.

2350
02:16:28,560 --> 02:16:29,880
What time is it on?
It's on at 9.

2351
02:16:29,880 --> 02:16:31,400
OK, that's OK.
Yeah.

2352
02:16:31,400 --> 02:16:33,680
And then, you know, can I stay
up till you come home?

2353
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:35,719
And that's when he's like, it's
going to be pretty late there,

2354
02:16:35,719 --> 02:16:37,520
kiddo.
Like he's just kind of a

2355
02:16:37,520 --> 02:16:40,799
perfunctory parent.
And he lets, like so many men

2356
02:16:40,799 --> 02:16:44,320
do, lets her do all the hard
work and heavy lifting while he

2357
02:16:44,320 --> 02:16:46,120
gets to kind of rest on his
laurels with the.

2358
02:16:46,120 --> 02:16:48,360
Well, I'm I'm a doctor.
He's a.

2359
02:16:48,559 --> 02:16:52,160
He's a resume.
He's not a person.

2360
02:16:52,280 --> 02:16:54,520
He's a resume.
I'm not a person.

2361
02:16:54,760 --> 02:16:57,320
Beautifully sad.
He's a parent because that's

2362
02:16:57,320 --> 02:17:00,160
what men of his stature do.
They have children.

2363
02:17:00,520 --> 02:17:02,959
They have children so when
they're playing golf, they can

2364
02:17:02,959 --> 02:17:06,080
talk about their children.
So when they're like at the

2365
02:17:06,080 --> 02:17:08,559
cigar bar, they can talk about
their children.

2366
02:17:08,799 --> 02:17:12,600
That's why he has a child.
Like that's the only reason he

2367
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:16,000
has a child and.
Not talk about Chilton.

2368
02:17:16,040 --> 02:17:18,480
Had a Chihuahua.
Yeah, Tom Cruise has a child in.

2369
02:17:18,600 --> 02:17:20,639
This I have a Chihuahua.
Well, and it's not to talk about

2370
02:17:20,639 --> 02:17:23,400
the child.
It's about to compare notes,

2371
02:17:23,520 --> 02:17:25,639
Yes.
And to be able to say like, this

2372
02:17:25,639 --> 02:17:28,879
is how I'm a father.
This is what I did for my kid.

2373
02:17:30,600 --> 02:17:33,840
Yeah, having a child in this
world is like have the business

2374
02:17:33,840 --> 02:17:36,280
card.
Like you could see the American

2375
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:39,920
Psycho business card, yes.
You know, like measuring stick.

2376
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:43,559
You could see them having that.
Like where's your child going to

2377
02:17:43,559 --> 02:17:45,240
school?
Like where are they riding

2378
02:17:45,240 --> 02:17:47,200
Equestrian like?
What are they?

2379
02:17:47,320 --> 02:17:48,920
What instrument are they
playing?

2380
02:17:48,959 --> 02:17:52,639
You know, like their first chair
at the New York York Symphony.

2381
02:17:52,639 --> 02:17:54,320
And it's like not about the
child.

2382
02:17:54,320 --> 02:17:57,120
It's all framed in that in that
way.

2383
02:17:58,799 --> 02:18:04,520
But Alice's crime.
And she is very like when she's

2384
02:18:04,520 --> 02:18:08,320
describing this fantasy, she
does bring it back to like, even

2385
02:18:08,320 --> 02:18:10,840
though I had this fantasy, I
love you even more.

2386
02:18:10,840 --> 02:18:13,600
Like I realized I would not want
to throw this away.

2387
02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:17,480
But she is trying to hurt him
like she's not guilt twist.

2388
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:21,920
Like she is trying to weaponize
her fantasies against him

2389
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:26,080
because she's hurt.
Yeah, but it's all a fantasy.

2390
02:18:26,240 --> 02:18:30,959
He goes out and he acts on it
like he's like, I'm going to go

2391
02:18:30,959 --> 02:18:33,559
get my fuck on.
It's like, basically what?

2392
02:18:33,920 --> 02:18:36,799
And he's just so awkward that he
can't.

2393
02:18:37,240 --> 02:18:40,799
And even when he can't, like
he's so nice to the sex worker

2394
02:18:40,799 --> 02:18:44,959
that like she talks about him
later, the nice guy Doctor Bill,

2395
02:18:44,959 --> 02:18:47,760
like, you don't even have to pay
me.

2396
02:18:47,760 --> 02:18:51,400
It's OK.
And it it's what's so egregious

2397
02:18:51,400 --> 02:18:53,719
to me is the way this movie
ends.

2398
02:18:53,719 --> 02:18:58,480
Alice apologizes to Bill.
Alice is like, I hurt you and

2399
02:18:58,480 --> 02:19:04,360
that's why you did all this when
like, no, he was going to go

2400
02:19:04,360 --> 02:19:08,639
like put little bill in as much
as he could if the opera, if he

2401
02:19:09,040 --> 02:19:12,120
if he didn't continuously like
trip over himself.

2402
02:19:13,160 --> 02:19:15,000
Right.
Agreed.

2403
02:19:15,080 --> 02:19:20,520
And again, it it's, but at the
same time, it's almost, it's

2404
02:19:20,520 --> 02:19:23,080
almost like a pretty powerful
move in chess.

2405
02:19:23,600 --> 02:19:30,040
And that maybe we don't see the
strategy behind it because, you

2406
02:19:30,040 --> 02:19:33,719
know, I think at this point,
she's a smart lady.

2407
02:19:33,719 --> 02:19:35,600
She has to understand her power
now.

2408
02:19:36,799 --> 02:19:42,520
And I think that, yeah, maybe
taking that onus and saying,

2409
02:19:42,520 --> 02:19:46,920
look, you know, when I was
telling you all this, I was, I

2410
02:19:46,920 --> 02:19:49,960
was coming at it pretty hard.
I was going into some details

2411
02:19:49,960 --> 02:19:53,600
because I wanted to make sure
that they were they were sinking

2412
02:19:53,600 --> 02:19:58,880
in staying with you.
However, like you said, unlike

2413
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:03,040
you know, when I'm using all of
these stereotypes and

2414
02:20:03,040 --> 02:20:06,960
generalities and I hate it.
But when you hear about men who

2415
02:20:06,960 --> 02:20:10,440
go out and cheat, it's almost
and they say, Oh no, I want to

2416
02:20:10,440 --> 02:20:13,840
come back because I realized I
could never have with them when

2417
02:20:13,840 --> 02:20:17,320
I have with you or I could never
do better than you.

2418
02:20:17,320 --> 02:20:20,080
That's not the flex that you
think it is.

2419
02:20:21,080 --> 02:20:25,240
But she's saying, I know that I
love you more than this.

2420
02:20:26,000 --> 02:20:28,960
I didn't do it.
Just the thought of it made me

2421
02:20:28,960 --> 02:20:34,680
realize that I love our life.
I love you and our relationship

2422
02:20:34,920 --> 02:20:39,160
more than what this could even
potentially be.

2423
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:44,240
And that to me is landmark.
Like, that's how you say these

2424
02:20:44,240 --> 02:20:46,400
things.
You say, look, yeah, we're all

2425
02:20:46,400 --> 02:20:48,840
going to have fantasies.
We're all going to think about

2426
02:20:49,160 --> 02:20:53,640
someone else, but The thing is,
we still come home to the person

2427
02:20:53,640 --> 02:20:56,120
that we love because we know
that we love them and that's who

2428
02:20:56,120 --> 02:20:59,600
we want to be with.
She makes that clear.

2429
02:21:00,080 --> 02:21:01,400
Yeah.
And I think the final lines of

2430
02:21:01,400 --> 02:21:02,960
the movie are very telling as
well.

2431
02:21:02,960 --> 02:21:06,360
Like he's like, you know, it's
it's forever.

2432
02:21:06,360 --> 02:21:09,320
And she's like, maybe?
Slow your roll, buddy, Slow your

2433
02:21:09,320 --> 02:21:11,720
roll.
But up to this point in the

2434
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:16,480
movie, every time she's referred
to sex, it's making love, making

2435
02:21:16,480 --> 02:21:18,040
love.
But then she says right after

2436
02:21:18,040 --> 02:21:20,320
that, you know, there is
something very important we need

2437
02:21:20,320 --> 02:21:21,960
to do as soon as possible.
And he's like, what's that?

2438
02:21:21,960 --> 02:21:25,760
And she's like, fuck.
Yeah, but she doesn't say fuck

2439
02:21:25,800 --> 02:21:28,840
each other.
And I think that's very telling.

2440
02:21:29,960 --> 02:21:32,640
You know, we have to go fuck,
but it doesn't say each other.

2441
02:21:33,720 --> 02:21:35,800
And I honestly think that's
telling.

2442
02:21:35,800 --> 02:21:38,040
I think that there's a little
bit of wiggle.

2443
02:21:38,280 --> 02:21:41,080
There's that little bit of
wiggle room that is there.

2444
02:21:41,240 --> 02:21:45,200
And maybe it is like, OK, we
realize we have these desires

2445
02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:48,920
now we're going to go act on
them like we are going to go.

2446
02:21:48,920 --> 02:21:51,880
We open the relationship.
Maybe we do, which would be a

2447
02:21:51,880 --> 02:21:56,960
disaster in there.
I mean just would be an absolute

2448
02:21:56,960 --> 02:21:58,440
like hey, the marriage is in
trouble.

2449
02:21:58,440 --> 02:22:00,960
We should open it up.
Like I will tell you as someone

2450
02:22:00,960 --> 02:22:03,880
who's done couples counseling
like that never works in

2451
02:22:03,880 --> 02:22:06,400
people's.
That's not why you would open

2452
02:22:06,640 --> 02:22:07,520
and to me.
Look, I.

2453
02:22:07,560 --> 02:22:10,880
Always, I always love the line
from Arrested Development.

2454
02:22:10,880 --> 02:22:13,240
Like, you know, people get
delusional and they they think

2455
02:22:13,240 --> 02:22:14,200
it'll work and.
Not us.

2456
02:22:14,200 --> 02:22:14,840
Never.
Does.

2457
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:17,040
But maybe.
It'll work for people maybe.

2458
02:22:17,120 --> 02:22:19,880
Yeah, I think of that every time
and it just makes me laugh.

2459
02:22:19,880 --> 02:22:25,040
Yeah, I just think of the
audacity of this line coming at

2460
02:22:25,280 --> 02:22:27,400
a toy store.
Right.

2461
02:22:28,400 --> 02:22:34,400
With their kid, I love I love it
because I think again, it speaks

2462
02:22:34,400 --> 02:22:37,840
to I love what you were saying
about there being Winkle room

2463
02:22:38,360 --> 02:22:40,960
And what are they actually
referring to with this?

2464
02:22:41,480 --> 02:22:44,960
I do think that she's saying
like, no, we need to go home and

2465
02:22:44,960 --> 02:22:48,160
we need to have sex.
We need to like there's

2466
02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:51,440
obviously something that we're
not doing and connecting to each

2467
02:22:51,440 --> 02:22:56,240
other in this way.
So let's let's go home and let's

2468
02:22:56,240 --> 02:22:59,440
work on something.
And I think that that.

2469
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:04,760
Like we're.
Like horny teenagers, Let's just

2470
02:23:04,760 --> 02:23:06,880
go at each.
Other get in that ass, Larry,

2471
02:23:06,880 --> 02:23:09,160
like you're getting in there,
like you're going to eat that

2472
02:23:09,160 --> 02:23:12,040
ass tonight.
Like that is what's going on.

2473
02:23:12,040 --> 02:23:15,160
And like maybe she's breaking
out the harness.

2474
02:23:15,160 --> 02:23:17,320
I don't know.
Maybe she's fucking him.

2475
02:23:17,320 --> 02:23:20,840
I don't know.
Love to see it.

2476
02:23:21,040 --> 02:23:24,440
Would are you kidding me?
I would love to see that.

2477
02:23:24,440 --> 02:23:25,880
Would absolutely.
You kidding me?

2478
02:23:26,160 --> 02:23:27,920
Would love to see that.
Speaking of.

2479
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:30,440
So crew should be hanging Dong
in this movie.

2480
02:23:30,440 --> 02:23:32,720
Yeah.
Oh yeah, I think, yeah, there's

2481
02:23:32,720 --> 02:23:35,200
like no mail.
There should be a lot more Dong

2482
02:23:35,400 --> 02:23:38,480
hanging in this movie.
So should Nicole, though, if

2483
02:23:38,480 --> 02:23:40,280
we're talking about strap ONS,
yeah.

2484
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:42,400
So should Nicole be against some
Dong here?

2485
02:23:42,400 --> 02:23:46,000
And here's Wow.
If Kubrick could ask Cruz to

2486
02:23:46,040 --> 02:23:48,120
hang Dong, he absolutely would
have.

2487
02:23:48,120 --> 02:23:49,960
So I don't know who's the real.
Coward here.

2488
02:23:49,960 --> 02:23:51,600
Kubrick wouldn't ask.
He would tell.

2489
02:23:52,840 --> 02:23:54,040
Yeah.
And then?

2490
02:23:54,040 --> 02:23:55,280
And then he would feel.
Like I'm so.

2491
02:23:55,360 --> 02:23:57,920
Sorry.
Yeah, he would humiliate him and

2492
02:23:57,920 --> 02:24:01,120
he would make him wear
prosthetic to make it he'd.

2493
02:24:01,160 --> 02:24:04,560
Be like, I'm so sorry I didn't
hang Dong when I showed up in

2494
02:24:04,560 --> 02:24:06,120
the. 1st.
Place, of course, this is what

2495
02:24:06,120 --> 02:24:07,360
you wanted.
Right.

2496
02:24:07,920 --> 02:24:13,200
It's another Steven way back you
were talking about how this is

2497
02:24:13,200 --> 02:24:17,040
like a modern retelling of It's
a Wonderful Life or and

2498
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:20,800
reinterpretation of it.
Here's where I push back on

2499
02:24:20,800 --> 02:24:23,400
that.
At the end of It's a Wonderful

2500
02:24:23,400 --> 02:24:29,560
Life, George Bailey realizes how
much he has touched other people

2501
02:24:30,920 --> 02:24:33,920
and the good touch, not the no
no square don't touch the no.

2502
02:24:33,920 --> 02:24:37,080
I think the good touch, how much
he is like touched other

2503
02:24:37,080 --> 02:24:42,600
people's lives, but also we're
almost 3 hours in so yeah, silly

2504
02:24:42,600 --> 02:24:46,600
me comes out, but also like how
much And this is a Christmas

2505
02:24:46,600 --> 02:24:49,520
show Hey kitties, hope you got
the toys you wanted.

2506
02:24:49,960 --> 02:24:53,360
George Bailey realizes how much
he has touched other people, but

2507
02:24:53,360 --> 02:24:56,440
how much they have touched him
and like at the end of It's a

2508
02:24:56,440 --> 02:25:02,040
wonderful life, I every time
when Harry says to my and I'm

2509
02:25:02,040 --> 02:25:06,720
doing, I'm tearing up now like
the line to my brother George,

2510
02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:10,520
the richest man in Bedford
Falls, like because he is he

2511
02:25:10,520 --> 02:25:14,280
really is.
George realizes like how much he

2512
02:25:14,280 --> 02:25:16,960
means to other people and what
they mean to him.

2513
02:25:17,720 --> 02:25:22,000
Bill does not realize that at
the end, like and Nicole, to

2514
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:26,040
your point, like Alice gives him
this wonderful speech about like

2515
02:25:26,040 --> 02:25:28,280
what her love means to him and
why.

2516
02:25:28,280 --> 02:25:30,560
And it's like we've hurt one
another.

2517
02:25:30,720 --> 02:25:34,800
But we should still go on.
And Bill's response is and a

2518
02:25:34,800 --> 02:25:39,640
dream is never just a dream.
He's still weaponizing her

2519
02:25:40,240 --> 02:25:43,200
dreams, which are subconscious
against her.

2520
02:25:43,200 --> 02:25:45,320
He can't.
He has no clue.

2521
02:25:45,320 --> 02:25:49,280
He's an idiot to the very end.
And maybe it's like it's the,

2522
02:25:49,960 --> 02:25:53,480
and are a lot more cynical and
there's a great book about how

2523
02:25:53,480 --> 02:25:58,040
1999 is the tipping point in the
culture where we all became like

2524
02:25:58,120 --> 02:26:01,040
much more stupid.
Like there's a phenomenal book

2525
02:26:01,040 --> 02:26:05,160
about that that just came out
earlier this year that I'm going

2526
02:26:05,160 --> 02:26:08,000
through.
And maybe it's like, this is the

2527
02:26:08,080 --> 02:26:11,280
It's a wonderful life we deserve
in 1999.

2528
02:26:12,560 --> 02:26:15,040
I think that's, yeah, I think
there's something to that.

2529
02:26:15,240 --> 02:26:18,720
And I hate that, I guess, like,
I hate that cynicism.

2530
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:23,000
I'm not a cynical person.
And like it, it galls me.

2531
02:26:23,120 --> 02:26:26,920
It galls me that like that is.
But again, and, and this goes

2532
02:26:26,920 --> 02:26:29,000
back to what I was saying
earlier as well, like what do

2533
02:26:29,000 --> 02:26:31,680
we, why do we consider Christmas
movies, Christmas movies

2534
02:26:31,960 --> 02:26:34,800
sentimentality and nostalgia?
And this movie doesn't have that

2535
02:26:34,800 --> 02:26:37,040
at all.
This movie is completely wiped

2536
02:26:37,040 --> 02:26:39,120
clean of any sentimentality and
any nostalgia.

2537
02:26:39,120 --> 02:26:43,000
So, but it is in fact it's a
wonderful life with that element

2538
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:46,040
completely excised out of it and
with a healthy dose of 90

2539
02:26:46,040 --> 02:26:47,240
cynicism in.
Serial.

2540
02:26:47,600 --> 02:26:50,960
And so I mean like.
If the end of a Wonderful Life,

2541
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:53,960
if George gets arrested like
that would have been the end of

2542
02:26:54,040 --> 02:26:57,400
Yes, it was made like he gets
hauled off Merry Christmas,

2543
02:26:57,400 --> 02:26:59,520
everyone, and hauls them off.
Yeah, Yeah.

2544
02:27:00,120 --> 02:27:02,480
So.
But but again, that's and again,

2545
02:27:02,480 --> 02:27:04,480
I think, you know, it's it's a
wonderful life for the new

2546
02:27:04,480 --> 02:27:06,600
Millennium.
I think that's, I don't know if

2547
02:27:06,600 --> 02:27:09,120
that's intentionally what
Kubik's going for, but that kind

2548
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:13,040
of ultimately I think ends ends
up being what and I think what

2549
02:27:13,040 --> 02:27:16,840
its lasting legacy as a
Christmas film is, however you

2550
02:27:16,840 --> 02:27:18,920
define it.
Again, I think sentiment on and

2551
02:27:18,920 --> 02:27:22,440
I thought have a lot to do with
it, but like I would definitely

2552
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:27,080
fit this in the modern Christmas
Canon as kind of an outlier.

2553
02:27:27,080 --> 02:27:30,440
Like, Brian posted a list on
social media recently.

2554
02:27:30,960 --> 02:27:32,440
Brad has been coming up a lot in
this episode.

2555
02:27:32,680 --> 02:27:35,680
Yeah, about like, kind of
Christmas movies with an edge.

2556
02:27:35,720 --> 02:27:38,360
And this is like one of his top
ones on that list.

2557
02:27:38,360 --> 02:27:41,120
And it it definitely qualifies
in that, I think.

2558
02:27:41,560 --> 02:27:45,480
Has The Edge, the guitar player
from U2, ever appeared in a

2559
02:27:45,480 --> 02:27:48,200
Christmas movie?
Not to my knowledge.

2560
02:27:48,320 --> 02:27:49,880
But I would love to.
We need to fix that.

2561
02:27:49,880 --> 02:27:54,560
We need to fix that.
Can we talk about the orgy

2562
02:27:54,560 --> 02:27:58,040
before we go home?
I'm surprised we haven't yet.

2563
02:27:58,080 --> 02:28:02,240
My I know 3 hours in Nicole,
you're like no do we have to

2564
02:28:02,240 --> 02:28:04,320
it's like.
Always happy to talk about an

2565
02:28:04,360 --> 02:28:07,320
orgy please.
Yeah, it's the least.

2566
02:28:07,320 --> 02:28:10,480
Happy to talk about an orgy.
It's the and Nicole, like you

2567
02:28:10,480 --> 02:28:12,440
threw the gauntlet down.
You're like, well, my

2568
02:28:12,440 --> 02:28:14,600
experience, I don't you know
what?

2569
02:28:14,880 --> 02:28:16,360
I don't want to speak your
truth.

2570
02:28:16,360 --> 02:28:20,400
Like am I saying too much here?
If I reveal what you said at the

2571
02:28:20,400 --> 02:28:24,160
slack, you're like, no, my
experience with orgies has been

2572
02:28:24,160 --> 02:28:26,840
much different than this.
And like I would say for for

2573
02:28:26,840 --> 02:28:30,400
myself, like I have like a
fairly limited experience, but I

2574
02:28:30,400 --> 02:28:32,800
have some.
And the first thing I'll say is

2575
02:28:32,800 --> 02:28:35,960
like, no one goes to the orgy
that you want to go to the orgy.

2576
02:28:35,960 --> 02:28:41,240
I include myself in that.
OK, I am not excluding myself

2577
02:28:41,280 --> 02:28:44,240
from that statement.
Like nobody wants to see me

2578
02:28:44,240 --> 02:28:45,920
there.
But they were not like this.

2579
02:28:45,920 --> 02:28:52,880
They were like much more sweaty
and less less manufactured I

2580
02:28:52,880 --> 02:28:55,160
think is the and there was a lot
less incense.

2581
02:28:55,240 --> 02:28:57,920
There was a lot less incense at
those.

2582
02:28:58,240 --> 02:29:01,760
The 90s was a wild time.
Yeah, but surprisingly, more

2583
02:29:01,760 --> 02:29:05,560
masks, weirdly.
Wrestling masks A Lucha Libra

2584
02:29:05,560 --> 02:29:09,120
wrestling mask.
That sounds like the kind of

2585
02:29:09,120 --> 02:29:10,480
orgy you'd be at Mike.
Right.

2586
02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:13,360
But it's just like everything is
so performative every.

2587
02:29:13,400 --> 02:29:15,440
It feels like it's the least
sexy.

2588
02:29:15,720 --> 02:29:19,560
It's like no one there again has
any interest in sex.

2589
02:29:19,560 --> 02:29:22,120
They have interest in power and
showmanship.

2590
02:29:22,920 --> 02:29:24,760
That's it.
They have interest in saying

2591
02:29:24,760 --> 02:29:29,200
that they went to an orgy.
Yeah, not interest in being at

2592
02:29:29,640 --> 02:29:36,280
an orgy and what that could
symbolize for people who go to

2593
02:29:36,360 --> 02:29:43,120
participate in orgies or
participate in any kind of kink

2594
02:29:43,160 --> 02:29:46,560
or whatever.
I've talked about being like

2595
02:29:46,560 --> 02:29:50,840
part of the kink community in DC
and going to lots of different

2596
02:29:50,840 --> 02:29:56,960
events and play events where
there's lots of public play and

2597
02:29:56,960 --> 02:30:00,200
things like that.
And yeah, you're right.

2598
02:30:00,200 --> 02:30:05,520
Like, this is not what it is.
This is, you know, you go

2599
02:30:05,520 --> 02:30:08,160
because you want to have certain
experiences.

2600
02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:13,480
You go because you want to
connect with other people in a

2601
02:30:13,480 --> 02:30:16,680
really profound way.
This is the antithesis of that.

2602
02:30:16,680 --> 02:30:22,440
No one wants to connect.
And so to me, that's the thing

2603
02:30:22,440 --> 02:30:24,840
that always stands out more and
more, especially since I've

2604
02:30:24,840 --> 02:30:27,480
watched this since really
getting more involved in the

2605
02:30:27,480 --> 02:30:32,360
King community, is that when we
go to different events, it is

2606
02:30:32,360 --> 02:30:36,560
very much about that connection
and meeting people.

2607
02:30:36,560 --> 02:30:42,600
And this is not that no one
cares, No one is forming any

2608
02:30:42,600 --> 02:30:46,280
kind of bond or you're not
getting the awkward

2609
02:30:46,280 --> 02:30:49,560
conversations that you had with
people before to be like, all

2610
02:30:49,560 --> 02:30:51,480
right, well, what's your, what
are you?

2611
02:30:51,480 --> 02:30:53,440
What's?
Your safe word What is?

2612
02:30:53,600 --> 02:30:56,880
Yeah.
Yeah, so I.

2613
02:30:57,040 --> 02:31:00,560
Mine was Fozzie Bear.
Just letting that out there.

2614
02:31:01,040 --> 02:31:03,480
Just say sorry we.
All know that now.

2615
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:07,520
Yeah, just letting y'all know.
I think you are glad Steven.

2616
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:10,120
I think you know, deep down
you're pretty happy that you

2617
02:31:10,120 --> 02:31:14,240
know that that.
Just recontextualizes our entire

2618
02:31:14,240 --> 02:31:16,440
conversation on the Muppet
Christmas Carol from a couple

2619
02:31:16,440 --> 02:31:20,440
years ago.
Though All right, sorry to call

2620
02:31:20,440 --> 02:31:22,280
I.
Had I known that going into that

2621
02:31:22,280 --> 02:31:24,800
episode, that would have gone
very differently, but OK.

2622
02:31:27,520 --> 02:31:30,120
Yeah, it's just it's really
interesting with the orgy scene.

2623
02:31:30,120 --> 02:31:32,280
And of course, I think we hit on
it before.

2624
02:31:32,320 --> 02:31:37,640
One of the things that was so
scandalous about this movie was

2625
02:31:37,680 --> 02:31:42,040
I think when it was first going
through the MPAA ratings, they

2626
02:31:42,040 --> 02:31:45,320
were going to smack it with an
NC 17 because of this.

2627
02:31:45,320 --> 02:31:50,280
And so that's when they got some
creativity with the CGI and

2628
02:31:50,280 --> 02:31:54,120
we're like, let's put some
figures here, let's put on some

2629
02:31:54,120 --> 02:31:58,280
panties here and really
desexualized it.

2630
02:31:58,280 --> 02:32:03,520
This is the most desexualized
sexualized movie there is.

2631
02:32:03,640 --> 02:32:07,960
It's more about the tension and
more about, you know, it reminds

2632
02:32:07,960 --> 02:32:11,720
me of the Lonely Islands.
Like I just had sex.

2633
02:32:12,120 --> 02:32:14,720
You want to be the person that
has the cake that said I just

2634
02:32:14,720 --> 02:32:17,240
had sex, but you don't
necessarily want to go through

2635
02:32:17,240 --> 02:32:21,560
the work of having the sex.
Yeah, you're.

2636
02:32:22,800 --> 02:32:25,360
No, I that that you're 100% spot
on.

2637
02:32:25,360 --> 02:32:29,280
Like it it.
Roger Ebert describes the CGI as

2638
02:32:29,280 --> 02:32:33,520
kind of like the Austin Powers
hide the genitalia scenes from

2639
02:32:33,520 --> 02:32:36,360
from those films where Austins
like walking around post sex and

2640
02:32:36,360 --> 02:32:39,640
they've got all these things
cleverly arranged to obscure all

2641
02:32:39,640 --> 02:32:42,320
the naughty bits so there's no
nudity actually shown.

2642
02:32:42,600 --> 02:32:46,360
That's very much what the CGI
edit of this movie looks like.

2643
02:32:46,840 --> 02:32:50,720
And I've only seen the non CGI
version because that's what

2644
02:32:50,720 --> 02:32:54,440
exists now in physical media.
So I think like Roger Ebert's

2645
02:32:54,440 --> 02:32:57,880
like greatest regret is he did
not live long enough for the

2646
02:32:58,440 --> 02:33:01,240
physical media version of this
to come out to see.

2647
02:33:01,880 --> 02:33:05,480
It's like I have but one regret
and it's that sorry to go I do.

2648
02:33:05,600 --> 02:33:08,920
Think that one of the
interesting things about though

2649
02:33:08,920 --> 02:33:18,280
the CGI is it further just adds
this layer of unrealness to this

2650
02:33:18,280 --> 02:33:20,920
orgy.
It feels foreign and like you

2651
02:33:20,920 --> 02:33:22,520
said, it feels very
performative.

2652
02:33:22,560 --> 02:33:26,440
And this amp set up, you know,
when you are faced with

2653
02:33:26,480 --> 02:33:30,520
realities, whether it's the
reality of an actual human body,

2654
02:33:30,520 --> 02:33:36,240
what it looks like, and it's
there, that that's gonna bring

2655
02:33:36,240 --> 02:33:39,520
you to a certain grounding to
where this is very much about

2656
02:33:39,520 --> 02:33:41,920
taking you away from the
reality.

2657
02:33:41,920 --> 02:33:46,120
These aren't real people.
These are puppets in space.

2658
02:33:46,840 --> 02:33:48,800
Yeah.
And that's.

2659
02:33:48,960 --> 02:33:53,240
It to your point, like Kubrick,
when he hires like nobody with

2660
02:33:53,240 --> 02:33:57,000
any enhancements, no filler, no
breast augmentation, like

2661
02:33:57,000 --> 02:34:00,320
everyone's all natural, but he
had no idea what he wanted to

2662
02:34:00,320 --> 02:34:02,080
do.
Like this scene was rehearsed

2663
02:34:02,080 --> 02:34:04,880
for months.
And my understanding is it kept

2664
02:34:04,880 --> 02:34:09,360
getting more explicit and more
explicit to the degree where the

2665
02:34:09,360 --> 02:34:12,160
key choreographer, she finally
said no.

2666
02:34:12,160 --> 02:34:16,120
She's like, you're basically
essentially me asking me to like

2667
02:34:16,320 --> 02:34:18,720
film a pornography scene.
And that's not about what I

2668
02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:22,320
signed up for.
She actually recommended, like

2669
02:34:22,320 --> 02:34:24,960
she actually told some of the
performers like you should

2670
02:34:24,960 --> 02:34:28,480
actually go out and get some
sort of enhancement done because

2671
02:34:28,480 --> 02:34:31,080
he'll fire you if you feel
uncomfortable.

2672
02:34:31,080 --> 02:34:34,080
Like these are persons like
they're increasingly

2673
02:34:34,080 --> 02:34:38,960
uncomfortable with like what he
was asking them to do because he

2674
02:34:38,960 --> 02:34:42,320
didn't quite know.
It's almost like he maybe he

2675
02:34:42,320 --> 02:34:45,560
knew right from the start but
didn't know how to ask.

2676
02:34:45,560 --> 02:34:51,400
Like do this thing for me.
Well, this is a time long before

2677
02:34:51,400 --> 02:34:54,880
there was such a even a concept
of what an intimacy coordinator

2678
02:34:54,880 --> 02:34:57,360
writes do or be.
So.

2679
02:34:57,480 --> 02:35:00,080
And again, that kind of old
Hollywood, like you're going to

2680
02:35:00,080 --> 02:35:02,680
do it or else you're not going
to be in the movie kind of thing

2681
02:35:02,680 --> 02:35:06,400
is probably looming very large.
Like I I don't think Kubrick.

2682
02:35:06,680 --> 02:35:08,600
I think Kubrick would probably
have some choice things to say

2683
02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:11,240
about the role of intimacy
coordinator in Hollywood today,

2684
02:35:11,240 --> 02:35:12,120
to be honest with you.
Yeah.

2685
02:35:14,720 --> 02:35:17,080
Probably.
What else do we got?

2686
02:35:17,840 --> 02:35:19,880
It's a good movie.
Yeah, it is.

2687
02:35:20,120 --> 02:35:23,000
It makes you want to celebrate
the holidays.

2688
02:35:23,040 --> 02:35:27,880
Sure, with your nearest and
dearest and go to an orgy.

2689
02:35:28,160 --> 02:35:30,680
Boxing Day.
Boxing Day orgy, everybody.

2690
02:35:31,040 --> 02:35:32,680
Mike, those days are over for
me.

2691
02:35:32,920 --> 02:35:35,640
Yeah, so.
But celebrate Boxing Day,

2692
02:35:35,640 --> 02:35:38,480
celebrate Christmas.
I've said a lot.

2693
02:35:38,640 --> 02:35:42,240
So yeah, I'm very glad we picked
this movie It.

2694
02:35:42,800 --> 02:35:47,080
Same, Yeah.
It still really wrestle with him

2695
02:35:47,080 --> 02:35:50,880
as a filmmaker and I think
that's on me and not him.

2696
02:35:50,880 --> 02:35:55,480
Like that's my own bringing my
and I think like I have like a

2697
02:35:55,480 --> 02:35:59,160
much more because I have like a
much more humanistic view of the

2698
02:35:59,160 --> 02:36:01,760
world.
I struggle with something that

2699
02:36:01,760 --> 02:36:05,120
feels so clinical and
calculating.

2700
02:36:05,120 --> 02:36:09,600
That's like really where I go.
And it's funny.

2701
02:36:09,600 --> 02:36:15,560
Like, this is like a very
Freudian film, but I would call

2702
02:36:16,680 --> 02:36:20,920
Kubrick like a from the BF
Skinner like realm of

2703
02:36:20,920 --> 02:36:24,960
conditioning.
Like you can manipulate people

2704
02:36:25,160 --> 02:36:29,400
if you like, do this thing
enough, you can manipulate them

2705
02:36:29,600 --> 02:36:33,680
to act a certain way.
And it's not like it's not

2706
02:36:33,680 --> 02:36:38,800
something that I aspire to or
really fully believe in.

2707
02:36:38,800 --> 02:36:41,440
I think that that tends to wear
out over time.

2708
02:36:42,600 --> 02:36:44,720
But yeah, I want do want to
clear up.

2709
02:36:44,720 --> 02:36:47,320
Like, I do think Tom Cruise is a
giant weirdo.

2710
02:36:47,600 --> 02:36:49,440
I know that.
I've, like, feel like I've

2711
02:36:49,440 --> 02:36:52,120
defended him here more than I
intended.

2712
02:36:52,520 --> 02:36:56,760
I do feel a little sorry for
him, as weird as that is to say

2713
02:36:56,760 --> 02:37:00,040
like that is.
I feel like it's must be very.

2714
02:37:00,520 --> 02:37:05,680
You've made so many trade-offs
to live as inauthentic a life as

2715
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:09,000
possible that there is something
a bit sad about that.

2716
02:37:10,120 --> 02:37:12,280
Right.
At what point do you stop

2717
02:37:12,280 --> 02:37:14,800
becoming a person and just
become the character that you've

2718
02:37:14,800 --> 02:37:18,840
been playing for so long?
And he did save movies in 2021.

2719
02:37:19,680 --> 02:37:23,240
It's true.
He did on single handedly saved

2720
02:37:23,240 --> 02:37:26,920
movies all by himself.
So any final thoughts?

2721
02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:29,080
Nicole, Steven, any other
thoughts?

2722
02:37:29,800 --> 02:37:32,440
No, it's it's a great movie.
If you haven't seen it, why are

2723
02:37:32,440 --> 02:37:34,600
you still listening?
Go watch it and then restart the

2724
02:37:34,600 --> 02:37:37,880
episode over again, you weirdo.
No, it's a it's a great film.

2725
02:37:37,880 --> 02:37:40,600
I again, I get something more
out of it every time I watch it.

2726
02:37:40,600 --> 02:37:42,960
It's one that I will continue to
go to as soon as the next

2727
02:37:42,960 --> 02:37:46,280
Criterion sale rolls around.
I'm definitely snatching up that

2728
02:37:46,280 --> 02:37:49,920
4K because I have to imagine
that's going to look beautiful

2729
02:37:49,920 --> 02:37:54,240
on my on my TV and my 4 KTV.
So yeah, no, I really dig it in

2730
02:37:54,240 --> 02:37:55,720
as a final statement for
Kubrick.

2731
02:37:55,720 --> 02:37:59,160
It's fittingly bizarre.
And I kind of love that for for

2732
02:37:59,160 --> 02:38:02,360
him and for his legacy as well.
Like I, I really dig this movie

2733
02:38:02,360 --> 02:38:05,360
and I which is why again, when
Nicole was just like eyes wide

2734
02:38:05,360 --> 02:38:08,560
shut, I was like, fuck yes in
100% sign me up.

2735
02:38:08,560 --> 02:38:11,280
That is a Christmas movie that I
will discuss for sure, because

2736
02:38:11,480 --> 02:38:13,960
I'm I generally tend to dislike
most traditional Christmas

2737
02:38:14,000 --> 02:38:16,360
books.
So as a slightly non traditional

2738
02:38:16,360 --> 02:38:22,120
one, I'm in.
Well, listeners, it's been an

2739
02:38:22,120 --> 02:38:25,560
episode like if you guys want to
say very quickly where y'all can

2740
02:38:25,560 --> 02:38:29,560
be found and what's coming up,
we'll wrap it up because we all

2741
02:38:29,560 --> 02:38:31,080
got to work.
Well, Nicole, you don't have to

2742
02:38:31,080 --> 02:38:32,720
work tomorrow.
You're on vacation.

2743
02:38:32,720 --> 02:38:34,920
Like not to assume, but I got to
work tomorrow.

2744
02:38:34,920 --> 02:38:36,760
It's my one day of work this
week so.

2745
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:39,720
Same.
Oh I've got to work the next day

2746
02:38:39,720 --> 02:38:42,320
and a half and then I get some
time off but then I'm like

2747
02:38:42,880 --> 02:38:44,720
filling it with as much as
possible.

2748
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:49,160
Is it really play time off?
Yeah, we're debating Marty.

2749
02:38:49,400 --> 02:38:54,240
Marty Supreme or Anaconda is our
Christmas night movie, and I'm

2750
02:38:54,240 --> 02:38:55,680
really I.
Know which one I would pick?

2751
02:38:56,920 --> 02:39:00,320
Anaconda.
My Anaconda don't want none

2752
02:39:00,320 --> 02:39:03,080
less.
You got buns Hon?

2753
02:39:03,080 --> 02:39:04,240
Thinking of.
Paul Rudd.

2754
02:39:04,480 --> 02:39:07,440
We're thinking of asking another
couple to join us, so we don't

2755
02:39:07,440 --> 02:39:10,640
know if they would go for
Martin, Marty Supreme.

2756
02:39:10,720 --> 02:39:14,400
Like they're pretty normie and I
don't know.

2757
02:39:15,040 --> 02:39:16,280
You can ask.
Well.

2758
02:39:17,440 --> 02:39:19,840
You could also You could also
throw avatar fire and ash out.

2759
02:39:19,840 --> 02:39:21,840
Isn't it?
No, I will not do.

2760
02:39:21,840 --> 02:39:24,040
I will.
I Avatar is not for me.

2761
02:39:24,040 --> 02:39:27,720
Just it's absolutely not for me.
Not my thing either, but to each

2762
02:39:27,720 --> 02:39:30,120
their own.
No, 3 hours of that.

2763
02:39:30,120 --> 02:39:33,120
I'd rather fucking poke my
eyeballs.

2764
02:39:33,160 --> 02:39:35,280
Just no.
Anyway, Nicole, where can

2765
02:39:35,280 --> 02:39:40,400
listeners find you?
Yeah, you can find me over at

2766
02:39:40,400 --> 02:39:44,600
Bodies of Horror at the Anatomy
of the Scream Pod Squad where I

2767
02:39:44,600 --> 02:39:49,360
have a bi weekly podcast that
talks about disability and

2768
02:39:49,360 --> 02:39:52,640
horror.
So specifically horror or

2769
02:39:52,800 --> 02:39:55,720
disability through the lens of
kind of horror films and

2770
02:39:55,720 --> 02:39:58,800
characters and tropes and all of
that good stuff.

2771
02:40:00,040 --> 02:40:03,760
Tomorrow, So tomorrow from the
night that we are recording

2772
02:40:03,760 --> 02:40:06,640
this, I am dropping an episode
on Gremlins.

2773
02:40:07,320 --> 02:40:14,560
And autonomy and caregiving and
the way that we demonize those

2774
02:40:14,560 --> 02:40:20,640
that are different from us
without any kind of thought to

2775
02:40:20,680 --> 02:40:25,400
our role in things.
You're not going to defend Mrs.

2776
02:40:25,400 --> 02:40:29,160
Deagle in that episode, are you?
Oh no, I'm defending the

2777
02:40:29,160 --> 02:40:32,960
gremlins.
OK, I got a little nervous there

2778
02:40:33,120 --> 02:40:35,080
for a second.
I thought you were I'm.

2779
02:40:35,120 --> 02:40:39,080
Listening to gremlins.
Throw Miss Deagle in that, OK.

2780
02:40:39,680 --> 02:40:41,960
I was gonna say, yeah, we can't.
There is.

2781
02:40:42,200 --> 02:40:44,160
I will.
I will not stand for Miss Deagle

2782
02:40:44,160 --> 02:40:45,520
support in this.
In this OK.

2783
02:40:45,600 --> 02:40:51,600
No, I'm full Full support for
all of the gremlins.

2784
02:40:52,040 --> 02:40:55,000
Full support for sweet baby
Angel Gizmo.

2785
02:40:56,800 --> 02:41:00,840
That was my nickname when I was
little from my mom because she's

2786
02:41:00,840 --> 02:41:06,520
like, I can't feed you after
midnight and you don't want to

2787
02:41:08,320 --> 02:41:14,040
get wet with your scars and you
also don't like bright lights.

2788
02:41:14,040 --> 02:41:17,400
So now whenever I'm home and she
comes in to wake me up, I'm

2789
02:41:17,400 --> 02:41:18,560
like, bright.
Lights, bright lights.

2790
02:41:18,680 --> 02:41:23,400
Oh boy, we did Gremlins for a
Christmas movie The other night

2791
02:41:23,400 --> 02:41:26,280
and it holds up, holds up so
well.

2792
02:41:26,280 --> 02:41:28,440
It's such a great.
I'm saving it for Christmas

2793
02:41:28,440 --> 02:41:29,960
morning.
Such a great movie.

2794
02:41:29,960 --> 02:41:32,320
I love that movie so much.
Yeah.

2795
02:41:32,320 --> 02:41:34,680
I mean the Gremlins just like
they just, you know, they're a

2796
02:41:34,680 --> 02:41:37,320
little Now.
Are you saying that like the

2797
02:41:37,320 --> 02:41:43,000
Gremlins are, they are justified
and going on because they do try

2798
02:41:43,000 --> 02:41:45,240
to kill Billy's mum?
Mike.

2799
02:41:45,880 --> 02:41:46,920
They are.
Murderers.

2800
02:41:47,000 --> 02:41:51,680
The episode.
No, I will say that basically

2801
02:41:51,680 --> 02:41:56,960
the line that I'm taking is on
more superficial levels.

2802
02:41:56,960 --> 02:42:03,760
Like, you know, Gizmo, they're
all MOG wise, but Gizmo gets

2803
02:42:05,120 --> 02:42:11,120
kind of like the pretty pass and
is, you know, even though

2804
02:42:11,120 --> 02:42:15,760
there's extra care for him that
is necessary because he's cute

2805
02:42:16,360 --> 02:42:20,680
and he's nice and he doesn't
make a lot of noise and fuss,

2806
02:42:21,160 --> 02:42:23,720
he's OK.
But when the gremlins roll

2807
02:42:23,720 --> 02:42:26,400
around and there's not an
infrastructure and support

2808
02:42:26,400 --> 02:42:30,920
system to now meet more needs,
they're cast aside.

2809
02:42:30,920 --> 02:42:36,960
And when they change into from
Little Magua to Gremlin, that's

2810
02:42:36,960 --> 02:42:42,760
just basically how society views
like in need of support.

2811
02:42:43,160 --> 02:42:48,040
So yeah, it's a very light
hearted nice episode.

2812
02:42:48,320 --> 02:42:49,000
I can't remember.
I do.

2813
02:42:49,000 --> 02:42:51,160
That sounds so awesome.
I'm very much looking.

2814
02:42:51,160 --> 02:42:56,080
Forward to I'm just thinking
#notallgremlins is the theme

2815
02:42:56,080 --> 02:42:57,720
that we're coming up with here.
Yeah.

2816
02:42:57,800 --> 02:43:00,560
So, Steven, what about
disenfranchised?

2817
02:43:01,600 --> 02:43:07,240
We, we just recorded our episode
on our final episode of 2025 on

2818
02:43:07,240 --> 02:43:10,840
the Electric State, a movie that
did in fact come out this year,

2819
02:43:10,840 --> 02:43:12,800
despite all evidence to the
contrary.

2820
02:43:13,880 --> 02:43:16,440
We covered that and that's going
to be our last episode for a

2821
02:43:16,440 --> 02:43:17,760
little bit.
We're going on a little bit of a

2822
02:43:17,760 --> 02:43:22,000
hiatus through at least the next
month just to kind of because my

2823
02:43:22,000 --> 02:43:24,440
brain has been in very bad
places lately.

2824
02:43:25,040 --> 02:43:29,120
So I'm digging myself out of
that and kind of trying to do

2825
02:43:29,120 --> 02:43:30,840
some self reflection and some
healing.

2826
02:43:31,640 --> 02:43:34,520
So yeah, we're going to take a
little break there, but you can

2827
02:43:34,520 --> 02:43:35,600
definitely listen to that
episode.

2828
02:43:35,600 --> 02:43:37,480
That episode also dropped this
morning.

2829
02:43:37,480 --> 02:43:40,960
So after you finish this, pop on
over to the Disenfranchised feed

2830
02:43:40,960 --> 02:43:44,480
and listen to us.
Tucker and I talk about a movie

2831
02:43:44,480 --> 02:43:47,920
that is has no business being as
good it is as it is, but it's

2832
02:43:47,920 --> 02:43:50,760
still very, very bad.
That's kind of where I think we

2833
02:43:50,760 --> 02:43:54,040
both landed on that movie.
So check that out over on

2834
02:43:54,040 --> 02:43:56,920
Disenfranchised.
If you'll follow me on Blue Sky

2835
02:43:56,920 --> 02:44:00,000
and Litter Box at Chewy Walrus
to see what else I got going on.

2836
02:44:00,000 --> 02:44:03,040
I'll be announcing all this
stuff when it comes out, I'm

2837
02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:05,440
sure.
But yeah, that's that's all I

2838
02:44:05,440 --> 02:44:08,880
have to plug right now.
Excellent for us you can find us

2839
02:44:08,920 --> 02:44:14,080
at the part of the pendulum.com
follow us on blue sky, follow us

2840
02:44:14,080 --> 02:44:16,000
on Instagram.
At the same.

2841
02:44:16,000 --> 02:44:20,080
I've like deleted pretty much
all the socials from my phone

2842
02:44:20,480 --> 02:44:24,040
and I have found like like you
were saying, Steven not being in

2843
02:44:24,040 --> 02:44:27,600
the best headspace.
I have found doing that has

2844
02:44:27,680 --> 02:44:33,720
improved my mood remarkably.
I am not meant for social media,

2845
02:44:33,720 --> 02:44:35,760
but we'll do promo and what not
there.

2846
02:44:36,400 --> 02:44:39,880
You can if you like what we do
here and if you're like 3 hours

2847
02:44:39,880 --> 02:44:44,640
in on this, you must.
Otherwise you're some sort of

2848
02:44:45,160 --> 02:44:48,800
masochist, which is OK.
We accept we don't kink shame

2849
02:44:48,800 --> 02:44:49,880
here.
That's all right.

2850
02:44:49,880 --> 02:44:52,480
Not at all.
Give these to an.

2851
02:44:52,680 --> 02:44:53,360
Orgy.
No.

2852
02:44:53,560 --> 02:44:56,080
Yeah, absolutely.
You can hear our episode of Back

2853
02:44:56,080 --> 02:44:58,920
to the Future Part 2, which
Brian and I recorded earlier

2854
02:44:58,920 --> 02:45:01,960
today.
I'm now like basically six hours

2855
02:45:01,960 --> 02:45:05,960
deep into podcasting and you can
hear my mom make kind of a

2856
02:45:05,960 --> 02:45:09,800
special appearance on the show
where she tells me not to buy a

2857
02:45:09,800 --> 02:45:13,360
ham because she's bought the ham
that I was supposed to make for

2858
02:45:13,360 --> 02:45:16,320
Christmas so she could relax
anyway.

2859
02:45:16,360 --> 02:45:17,680
People don't know how to relax,
Mike.

2860
02:45:17,960 --> 02:45:21,200
We will be back and I can be one
of them.

2861
02:45:21,640 --> 02:45:24,320
We will be back.
Probably will take a week

2862
02:45:24,320 --> 02:45:27,360
because this is dropping on a
Thursday and maybe we take a

2863
02:45:27,360 --> 02:45:30,880
little more time to like edit
the year end episode.

2864
02:45:30,880 --> 02:45:36,280
So we're going to be doing our
review of 2025, our top ten.

2865
02:45:36,760 --> 02:45:39,120
I know Stevens, you said you
can't be on that.

2866
02:45:39,120 --> 02:45:42,720
So I might just say maybe record
a quick 5 minutes and just give

2867
02:45:42,720 --> 02:45:45,320
us your list if you would like.
Nicole, I don't know if you're

2868
02:45:45,320 --> 02:45:47,360
hopping on.
There's definitely room like so

2869
02:45:47,360 --> 02:45:49,480
excellent.
We're recording that this

2870
02:45:49,480 --> 02:45:53,280
Saturday.
That is always like, I'm like,

2871
02:45:53,280 --> 02:45:57,120
we'll do this in two hours and
then four hours later we're

2872
02:45:57,120 --> 02:46:00,720
yelling about Nosferatu.
You know, Brian's like, more

2873
02:46:00,720 --> 02:46:06,240
like Nosferatu, which is
something he has never said.

2874
02:46:06,520 --> 02:46:09,120
This year it'll be Frankenstein,
and Mike's going to be more like

2875
02:46:09,120 --> 02:46:11,880
Stankenstein.
I you know what?

2876
02:46:11,880 --> 02:46:17,480
Yeah, Frank and suck.
Which both of you have that you

2877
02:46:17,480 --> 02:46:20,000
know, look, I'm just saying I
both.

2878
02:46:20,240 --> 02:46:21,880
Have that at the same spot on
our list.

2879
02:46:22,160 --> 02:46:26,920
And there's a certain Christmas
slasher that has made some lists

2880
02:46:26,920 --> 02:46:28,720
as well, which is.
Shocking.

2881
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:35,280
But awesome, we are all shocked
and our number ones like there's

2882
02:46:35,280 --> 02:46:37,160
like it's universal across the
board.

2883
02:46:37,160 --> 02:46:40,480
No shock there.
No shock whatsoever there.

2884
02:46:40,800 --> 02:46:43,720
But anyway, our top ten, it's
usually our most popular

2885
02:46:43,720 --> 02:46:47,240
episode.
It's, you know, it gets a little

2886
02:46:47,240 --> 02:46:49,680
bit goofy.
I don't know, Maybe we'll talk

2887
02:46:49,680 --> 02:46:53,800
more about orgies, like I'll
review or reveal some other

2888
02:46:53,800 --> 02:46:54,720
stuff.
Who knows?

2889
02:46:54,720 --> 02:46:57,840
Like it's a good time.
So that's it.

2890
02:46:57,920 --> 02:47:01,680
Merry Christmas, everybody.
Merry Christmas.

2891
02:47:01,680 --> 02:47:07,440
And to like to Mike Snoonian,
who did not cook a ham, I say to

2892
02:47:07,440 --> 02:47:09,520
all, a good night, take care.