PSYCHO 2

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None.
Hello everyone and welcome to

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the pod and the Pendulum.
We are the podcast that covers

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all the horror franchises one
movie and one episode at a time.

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As always, I'm your host Mike
Snoonian.

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I managed to spell my name
completely incorrectly in the

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show notes and we have a stacked
lineup of Co hosts today.

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First up from Bloody Disgusting
and Manor Vellum as well as the

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newly launched Finally It Is Up.
You can listen to it, the host

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of Holy Terror, a show that
mixes the 1960s Batman show,

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religion and horror movies.
Take out one of those things.

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Welcome back, Mr. Brian Typer.
I'm here and yes, we launched,

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I'll talk about that at the end,
but.

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It's really, it's a great
listen.

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I'll say this folks.
It's a really fun listen.

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I really enjoyed, really enjoyed
the first episode.

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So awesome.
Looking forward to more of

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those.
Also joining us back again after

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a little bit of a break.
I think it's been a little while

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since you've been on because you
missed our top ten of the year.

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I did do the the kind of the top
non horror of the year that was

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on that.
Episode that is true for the

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patriots.
Yeah, you did that so.

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But from the Disenfranchise
podcast, welcome back the one

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the only Mr. Steven Foxworthy.
Hello, hello.

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Going a little mad here today,
but I I will put myself on the

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record as saying I am a holy
terror super fan.

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So there we go.
All 2 episodes that we have,

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including our.
I've loved.

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This episode, well, excellent.
Thank you.

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We are not sure where our guest
is that there seems to be a time

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zone discrepancy so we will
leave them out at this moment.

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Unless maybe I imagined them
this whole time, like maybe

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that's what's going on here.
OK.

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Someone is trying to drive you
back to the institution.

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That's what's correct.
Yeah, gentlemen, before we

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start, can we do a little bit of
housekeeping?

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All.
Right.

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Well folks, we have been stuck
on 139 reviews on Apple for

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about four months now.
Like we've been stuck there,

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which is a nice amount of
reviews, but we'd love to see

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that number go out.
So I am once again making my

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weekly plea that if you are
enjoying what you're listening

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to, please rate, review and
subscribe to us wherever you get

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your podcasts.
On Apple, you can leave us five

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stars and a few kind words.
That goes a super long way to

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new listeners discovering us on
Spotify, rate US five stars and

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you can comment on individual
episodes.

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We've gotten some nice comments.
We just got a really nice

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comment on our Eyes Wide Shut
episode, which I really

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appreciate.
From our player.

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Which was very, very cool.
They did not get to the part yet

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where we talked about our
experiences in the orgy scene,

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and I wonder if they would go
back and revise after that.

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We were, yes.
We talking about our orgy

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experiences there was.
Three of us on that show, So

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Steve I.
Know and one of us did not talk

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about.
That at all?

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Anyway.
I would have been.

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Leave us five stars on Spotify.
Brian, what's your experience

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with orgies?
Just to put you on the spot.

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Non existent I'm sorry to say.
OK, fair enough.

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All right.
Anyway.

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Very sorry, right, Brian.
I've I've, I've seen them in

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Eyes Wide Shut, that's about
the.

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That is my orgy experience,
right?

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Fair.
Enough.

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I'm going to put one of you on
the spot right now to do the

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Patreon pitch.
Who would like to do it?

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Steven would.
Apparently, I would like to

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listen, guys, if you really love
what we do, and I know you do

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because you're listening right
now and there's no other reason

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why you would listen to the
three of us talking if you

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didn't love what we do.
So please consider becoming a

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patron by going to
patreon.com/pod and the pendulum

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over there.
You're going to find what I

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think we're what, right, Mike?
Right.

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Around what, 1000?
Hours or 100.

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I I can't.
I can't.

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Read. 10 million hours of bonus
content.

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We cover one off horror movies
that we normally wouldn't do on

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the main feed.
We do special commentary

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episodes.
Mike and I were talking before

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this recording about our
absolutely unhinged French

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Connection commentary that we
did last year.

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We we do a bunch of other stuff.
Brian did a deep dive into the

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Nosferatu films, which I was
delighted to be on one of those

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episodes.
Ari did a full series on the I

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Spit On Your Grave franchise
franchises that we probably

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wouldn't cover here on the main
thing.

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You can get those back behind
the paywall, hosted by some of

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the panel.
So that's always a good time.

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Something a little different
than what you might find up

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here.
Basically, there's a lot of

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great stuff for as low as 2
bucks a month.

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You too can have access to all
of that, but also help us keep

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the lights on here at the show.
Yeah.

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Now guys, I'm going to say that
like we've often said, our

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listeners are some of the most
attractive, most viral, viral

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athletic listeners and all the
podcasts land.

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What is you?
You know where I'm going with

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this.
You already know what is the

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tier, the pot and pendulum orgy
tier?

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What level did we have to you
You can have.

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Did not know where you were
going with that at all I was

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even had no clue that that took
me completely by surprise and I

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was delighted by that surprise.
My I, I'm going to let you

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decide that.
We can discuss that off mic.

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Yeah, they're. $8 we'll discuss
that other stuff.

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We're a cheap date, right?
Yeah.

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Apparently.
Yeah, apparently.

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Now, to be clear, that's a
monthly recurring game.

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And hey, tangential to orgies,
we are also talking about incest

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with our Back to the Future
series.

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Currently.
Yeah, so.

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And.
That's true, and interest might

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come up today as well.
We.

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Anyway, we really got.
We have already.

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We've gotten ourselves.
We haven't gotten to the movie.

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Good.
We should.

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Maybe we cut this and just add
it to the post credits.

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Who knows there?
We go.

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Maybe anyway, Steven, you want
to talk about the movie we're

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going to watch today?
Like your early experiences with

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it, and maybe even like how it
compares with Psycho, which I

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know you weren't on before but
I'm sure you have.

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Not I have seen psycho multiple
times.

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I've seen this movie exactly one
time.

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I finished it about 10 minutes
before we were supposed to start

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recording.
So I my thoughts are fresh and

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hot.
This listeners, this is my

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penance penance.
I really Brian, let me let me

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talk.
You'll have your turn.

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Your thoughts are fresh and hot,
much like our orgies will be if

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you join the $8.
Sorry.

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Continue.
So.

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When I was a young podcaster,
fresh off of fresh fresh off of

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the start of the disenfranchised
podcast, when it was just me and

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my my buddy Brett Wright, I made
what was an ignorant comment in

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which I said, and I quote well,
the psycho sequel suck.

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That was essentially what I
said.

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And I wouldn't say the Internet
got mad at me because let's be

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honest, I don't have that kind
of following and probably never

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will.
But two people did get very mad

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at me.
One of them was my eventual Co

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host Tucker and the other was
our very own brain Kuiper who's

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like I listen say.
I got mad.

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I was just trying.
I was trying to inform you of,

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you know, the fact that you may
have been misinformed by the

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reputation of the sequels to
Psycho.

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Which and and at that point I
had first.

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Two at least.
I'd never seen any of them.

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So again, like I said, ignorant
comment.

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So I I decided when when psycho
came up on the wheel, I was

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like, OK, because I made that
ignorant comment.

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I'm going as my penance.
I'm going to watch all of the

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other movies in the Psycho
Series besides the original,

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which at the time had been the
only one that I had seen.

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And I did watch the original
late last year.

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So I've seen it's it's still
pretty fresh for me.

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And so I watched Psycho 2 today.
I'm planning on being on the

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rest of these episodes.
So buckle in if fluting, that's

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what you want.
Yeah, OK.

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Look, Mike, this is my penance.
I made that.

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Will be your penance. 8 bucks, I
made an ignorant statement and

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I'm going to, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna make it right by watching

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all the, the entire cycle
franchise.

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So that that is my that is my
role.

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That's what I'm doing.
I'm fixing that the remake is

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only 8 bucks on Blu-ray right
now and it's a scream factory

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Blu-ray which they always do a
really great job with the

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transfer.
It is special features.

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It is Scream Factory, so there's
probably going to be some extras

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that are.
There's some good extras on it.

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I mean I've yet to watch it, it
just came in this week but I

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figured for 8 bucks I'm going to
pay for it to rent it.

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I might as.
Well, own it.

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My dad has the DVD that I could
borrow.

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OK, so my feelings about the
remake, I think are already

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pretty clear.
Yep.

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But, you know, hey, we're not.
Skipping that episode, aren't

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you?
No, I'm on it.

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I'm gonna be here.
Excellent.

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I'm gonna be here.
Looking forward to that.

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As to my thoughts on this film
after my first watch, I will say

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good, not great.
OK, fair enough.

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Brian, How about yourself?
You know, this is one of those

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movies I grew up with my
grandmother, who's a huge

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Hitchcock fan, and my dad who
was like into sort of

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tangentially into horror, though
I didn't really know that till

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later.
And my uncle, who was very into

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horror, were kind of like, how
could they make a sequel to

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Psycho?
You know, that was the

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conversation that was going on
around 1983 when I was very

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young.
You know, it's like, why would

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they do this?
But then still, my dad, out of

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morbid curiosity, rented it, of
course.

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And they, my parents watched it,
I'm sure.

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And they said, yeah, it's, it's
probably OK for you to watch.

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Not when I was five.
I mean, it was a little later

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than that, but it was few years
later than that.

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But it was, I remember somehow I
think I saw, I might have even

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seen this one before I saw
Psycho because I remember this

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starting with the shower scene.
Obviously the shower scene is

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where they're going to start
because that's the most famous

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thing everyone was talking
about, the shower scene.

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I knew the shower scene before I
ever saw the movie.

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And so I think I saw this one
first.

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I don't remember what I thought
of it initially because I didn't

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really have a reference to the
original to think about.

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My feelings on it are I like
this movie a lot.

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I think there's a lot of
interesting things in it, a lot

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of good stuff.
I also think it's overly

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complex, like unnecessarily
complex at certain points.

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And I think there's a twist too
far that it takes, yes.

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That said, that scene is really
fucking awesome.

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Yes, also.
Yes, I think I know what you're

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talking about.
We'll get there.

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I know exactly what you're
talking about because.

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I Yeah.
So I'll try not to ruin what

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Psycho 3 does with all that, but
for those who haven't seen it,

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Steven.
But I, I will say that I think

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that I still kind of feel the
same way about this movie that

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it's, it's, I like it, but
there's certain aspects that

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keep me from really engaging
with it the way a lot of people

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do.
I don't know exactly what that

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is, but it's just a block for
me.

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I actually kind of prefer 3,
even though it's trashier and

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not as good of a movie.
I have more fun with it.

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00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,000
And this one is kind of like,
it's good, but it's a little bit

230
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,280
of a chore, if that makes sense.
And I'm probably not going to

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00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,920
make any friends by saying that
I prefer Psycho 3 to Psycho 2,

232
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,320
but it's just the way I feel.
That's all right.

233
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:49,880
We all contain multitudes.
Exactly.

234
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,320
I think they're both like fun
movies in different ways.

235
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,360
Like they do completely
different things.

236
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,440
So I'm kind of surprised to say
like this was the first time

237
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,920
watch for me because I would
have thought I had seen it

238
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,480
because I was familiar with the
twist.

239
00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,000
I know I had seen the closing
scene multiple times.

240
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:15,320
And I think that must have like
been like one of the myriad of

241
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,280
like these horror documentaries
that must have been like where I

242
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,880
watched that moment, which we'll
talk about later on as we talk

243
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,720
about the movie.
But I also knew, like, the plot

244
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,880
details of it, like a mother and
daughter were teaming up against

245
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:31,360
them.
They were trying to drive Norman

246
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,760
mad.
And I'm like, how have I not

247
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,760
seen this movie before?
But I I had it, but I was more

248
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,040
familiar with it.
I agree with you, Brian.

249
00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,640
I think there's a bit too much
plot.

250
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,320
It gets a little bit too.
I think that like they get a

251
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,960
little bit in their own heads.
Like, it's a daunting, I mean,

252
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:54,800
let's face it, like coming out
with a sequel to Psycho 20 plus

253
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,400
years after the original and
right after Hitchcock had like

254
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,480
recently passed away.
Like that's a fairly daunting

255
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:07,000
task, especially for a director
who idolized Alfred Hitchcock.

256
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,280
Like it wasn't just like a job
for hire.

257
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,040
Like he really wanted to do do
Hitchcock proud.

258
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,200
And I think that this is as good
of a sequel as you could expect.

259
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,560
And it does a lot more right
than it does wrong, especially

260
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,240
with like the performances of
it.

261
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,920
And B it has that, you know,
Dean Cundy look like look, we

262
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,600
get our our patron St. you know,
you can keep your Roger Deakins.

263
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:38,440
I will watch a Dean Cundy filmed
movie any day of the week and

264
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,520
twice on Sundays.
Elated when I saw his name on

265
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:42,720
screen.
Lastly, I.

266
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:45,480
Like, I got so excited.
On this, yeah.

267
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,720
I'm sitting there with my
partner on the couch watching

268
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,200
the movie and I just tell oh
Dean Cundy and she looks at me

269
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,160
like what the hell are you
talking about?

270
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,200
Right.
Yeah, I, I and also Jerry

271
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,800
Goldsmith, a company is.
Yes, Kevin.

272
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,600
Yeah.
And then Jerry Goldsmith on the

273
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,280
score as well.
I mean it was just sort.

274
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,760
Of Jerry Goldsmith.
Yeah, there's, there's a lot of

275
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,080
good pedigree going in, Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.

276
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,760
Behind this movies.
Which is shocking considering

277
00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,960
what we're going to talk about
right now with like the

278
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,920
background and what Universal
wanted to do with this movie

279
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,200
versus like how it actually
turned out.

280
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:21,400
So Studio was wrong.
Who knew?

281
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,320
All right, so let's.
Talk that never happens.

282
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,080
Yeah, let's just read yesterday
Ted Sarandis from Netflix saying

283
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,560
he's committed to the 45 day
theatrical window, didn't say

284
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,360
for how long, and then said
movie theaters are dying and

285
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,640
people will only go if they live
in a city, which is the most

286
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,040
insane.
They're for city folks.

287
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:48,080
Which people live in cities?
Yeah, like I know people live in

288
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,720
in dense populations.
Slow down there again.

289
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,280
Yeah, unreal.
Anyway, it's like, I think we're

290
00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:00,200
driving like an hour maybe
tomorrow or Monday for the no

291
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,760
other choice that new Korean.
Film Planning to see that today.

292
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,280
Yeah, I want to see that so bad.
Yeah, I, I think that will be if

293
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,000
we do another patron show like
what we're watching, I think

294
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,520
that we can like briefly discuss
that one as well.

295
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,000
Yeah, going for a double feature
today.

296
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,880
Highly recommend.
It was just an accent.

297
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,760
Christopher, Really.
Yeah, highly.

298
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,920
Cool.
It's a great companion piece

299
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,080
with one battle after another.
OK.

300
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,880
Yeah, OK.
Way different tone, similar

301
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,320
themes I would say, but totally
different tone.

302
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,240
But it is one of the best.
It would have made my top 10 of

303
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:38,560
20.
I think I even put it on there

304
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,200
after the fact.
It's pretty incredible.

305
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:41,600
Yeah, anyway.
Yeah.

306
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,560
Cycle 2.
Should we dive into the

307
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:44,960
background?
Let's do it.

308
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,080
Let's.
Do it all right, Alfred

309
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,680
Hitchcock passes away April
29th, 1980.

310
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000
He had suffered with like a
series of health issues and

311
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:59,120
chronic illnesses the last
decade of his life in, I think

312
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,240
it's fair to say, his career
post psycho.

313
00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,359
He never quite hits the
commercial or creative peaks

314
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,880
that he does like.
Psycho really is where it all

315
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,440
culminates.
He.

316
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,400
Slows down drastically like the
last 20 years of his life.

317
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,680
He makes 6 films, which by
today's standards like 6 films

318
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,319
in 20 years.
That's a lot.

319
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,599
That's a lot, yeah.
Consider like in the he's he

320
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,240
made 11 movies in 10 years and.
After two years, some years,

321
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,440
yeah, right.
And the films are Like the

322
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:41,400
Birds, Topaz, Torn Curtain,
Marnie, Frenzy and Family Plot.

323
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,240
And of those Like the Birds is
obviously the most well known.

324
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,040
It's a fun B movie.
I really like Marnie.

325
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,760
I think Marnie is great.
I really like Frenzy.

326
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:55,040
I just ordered that on 4K.
But these are the lesser

327
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:59,040
Hitchcock movies that Nolan's
they're not many folks are going

328
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,400
to put any of these in their top
five, right?

329
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:07,520
So but what?
Marnie is really Marnie's gotten

330
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,480
is really been getting a lot of
traction over the past like

331
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,080
10-15 years.
It's interesting because you

332
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,800
know, like, you know, Martin
Scorsese champion something

333
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,800
people are going to take notice
and then coming back.

334
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,080
So Marnie was is, I mean, it's
obviously a controversial film

335
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,080
for what's happening behind the
scenes.

336
00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,080
Right.
But I think it's a, it's sort of

337
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:33,200
a fascinating, weird movie, but
it's really gained a lot of

338
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,760
respect, kind of a steam over
the past, you know, even 20

339
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,440
years.
So, but it's a movie that I've

340
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,560
never really been able to
connect with for whatever

341
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,760
reason.
Frenzy, like you said, I I like

342
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,000
frenzy.
It's lurid and gross and all of

343
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,720
those things that Hitchcock
probably wanted to do at other

344
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,800
times, but you know.
Are you surprised Frenzy never

345
00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:01,520
gets mentioned when film
historians talk about like proto

346
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,920
slashers and like the Because
Frenzy is much more of a slasher

347
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,240
movie and contains more of the
tropes than Psycho does.

348
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,760
Than Psycho does yeah yeah it is
that is interesting I wrote

349
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,800
about it for bloody disgusting
you know for its 50th

350
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:23,840
anniversary which was what four
years ago now but Frenzy and I

351
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,440
think I might have mentioned
something about it it's kind of

352
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,160
interesting because it's written
by the same person who wrote The

353
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:34,880
Wicker man so it has it's very
British it's more about it's

354
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:40,080
sort of a combines the Hitchcock
wrong man scenario with you know

355
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,880
the psycho killer on the other
end and it's I don't know it's

356
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,000
one of those movies that is
really divisive some people love

357
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,120
it like we are talking about
here and others are just like

358
00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,200
it's just garbage I I feel
which.

359
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,720
Is really an interesting this is
the movie I think that Quentin

360
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,680
Tarantino references when he
says directors need to hang it

361
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,760
up after a certain amount of
time and I don't get that I.

362
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,200
I don't get that either.
I think this is actually I think

363
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,120
it's actually a revitalization.
Yeah.

364
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,240
You know, of of the movie,
because after torn curtain is

365
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:19,520
sort of a drag.
This is and Frenzy is a big step

366
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,840
up.
And then Topaz is the one that I

367
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,560
would maybe mention as the one
where older directors hang it

368
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,320
up.
But Family plot is kind of fun.

369
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,440
It's it's OK.
It's sort of a fun little caper

370
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,400
movie.
That's the one with Bruce Dern,

371
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,160
right?
Bruce Dern and it's got like

372
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,240
Karen Black, who has sort of got
an iconic look in that movie.

373
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:41,880
It's it's.
Yeah.

374
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,360
It's a fun little movie.
I I nearly tossed that on last

375
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:48,840
night 'cause I rewatched rope
because why not?

376
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,440
Yeah, and it was one in the
morning.

377
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,320
And I'm like, you know, I kind
of wanna be able to get up and

378
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:56,880
do a few things before we
record.

379
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,960
So of course, sleep one out,
which is rare.

380
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,240
Well, what does happen during
this period in Hitchcock's life

381
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,240
towards the end post the Birds
getting around like 66 is there

382
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,600
becomes like a critical
reappraisal of Hitchcock's work

383
00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:15,360
at that point.
Like, he was called the master

384
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:18,560
of suspense.
He was considered a brand of an

385
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,360
in and of himself, but he was
considered.

386
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,160
Look at that.
You knew exactly where we're

387
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:27,480
going.
For the listener at home, Brian

388
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,360
has just reached onto his
bookshelf and produced a copy of

389
00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,720
Hitchcock Truffaut, the book of
interviews between Francois

390
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,240
Truffaut and Alfred Hitchcock.
So, Brian, what can you tell us

391
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,560
about the historical impact of
like Truffaut's work with

392
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,560
Hitchcock, these these series of
interviews he did and the book

393
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,280
he publishes?
Well, I think that there was a

394
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,960
conception among American
critics that Hitchcock was

395
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,440
fluff, that it was just, you
know, it was cotton candy and

396
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,640
fun, but not not anything of
real cinematic value.

397
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,720
No craft to it.
Right, exactly.

398
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,720
But Truffaut and Goddard and the
whole Calle du Cinema folks,

399
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:15,200
which, you know, watch Nouvelle
Vague on on Netflix, the Richard

400
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,560
Linklater movie, to get a little
more of that stuff.

401
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,880
They really saw something else
in American movies, particularly

402
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:27,680
Hitchcock, Howard Hawks, you
know, people like Orson Welles,

403
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,800
certainly even Michael Curtis,
who is just now sort of gaining

404
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,680
more respect in the United
States as he should, right?

405
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,800
You know, George Stevens,
William Wyler, people like that.

406
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,680
So, but especially Hitchcock, I
think.

407
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,240
I mean, people were like
realizing not only is Hitchcock

408
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:49,360
crafting his films well, he's
inventing visual cinema in a lot

409
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:52,000
of ways.
Creating a new film language

410
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,480
more or.
Less Yeah, yes, I mean, the the

411
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,600
light.
We know what it looks like for a

412
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,280
killer to walk up a staircase
and what it looks like for a

413
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,880
victim to walk up the staircase
because of Alfred Hitchcock.

414
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,440
Yes.
You know, I mean those those are

415
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:09,760
the kinds of things that that
we're seeing in this, you know,

416
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,520
the high angle stuff we talked
about in the psycho episode and

417
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:19,280
you know, all those just visual
pure cinema things he does are I

418
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,200
think it's a big part of the
focus.

419
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,720
But also there's just the idea
of the thematic through line,

420
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,200
you know, of and and this is
where the auteur, the auteur

421
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:35,080
theory comes in, which, you
know, you can buy into that or

422
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:41,440
not, but it for better or worse,
placed the director of a movie

423
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:46,600
as the author of a film.
And I think Hitchcock is is

424
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:51,160
actually a really prime example
of that because, you know, even

425
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,640
though he didn't write any of
his scripts, he did shape all of

426
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,520
the scripts with the writers he.
He.

427
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,240
And all.
Yeah, he and Alma together.

428
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,320
Absolutely.
And she thank you for mentioning

429
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,560
that because I mean, that is so
important to everything

430
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,920
Hitchcock did.
Is Alma revel Hitchcock?

431
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,960
But I think that's that's kind
of fairly what we what we know

432
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,840
is, you know, people really
started to say, oh, Hitchcock is

433
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,000
actually serious cinema on a
level with, you know, the most

434
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,360
respected film makers of the
era.

435
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:36,320
So that that's I think Truffaut
in particular goes a long way in

436
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,360
making that happen.
And it's like, and not just like

437
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,480
not just like respected, but
like hip, you know, he's

438
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,400
Hitchcock is cool.
And so that's a that was a big

439
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,840
deal.
And it was a big deal for

440
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,000
Hitchcock.
Like he, he was a man with an

441
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,760
ego.
I mean, there's no other way

442
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,400
around it.
Like in that the heaping of

443
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,120
praise that he received, like he
maintained like a lifelong

444
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:07,160
friendship with Trofo after
this, that they wrote to one

445
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,240
another regularly and warmly.
And I think one thing.

446
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,240
This book was expanded, I'm
sorry to interrupt this book was

447
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:19,360
expanded several times because
he to encompass Hitchcock's last

448
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:22,360
movie.
So because he went, he talked to

449
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,000
him about all of them.
He's not quite as open about the

450
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,480
more recent ones, but he, you
know, but he's, but you know,

451
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,520
he's willing to talk about it
with someone who he respects.

452
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:38,120
Yeah, all of that is just to set
a little bit of the table to say

453
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:42,600
that it didn't look like #1
sequels weren't necessarily a

454
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,200
big thing at this time.
Like you don't get, like,

455
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,680
there's a lot of reasons you
don't get a sequel to Bonnie and

456
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,120
Clyde, was what I was going to
say.

457
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,240
Well, really, just one.
Just one reason, really.

458
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,440
It's really not until the 70s
you start to see sequels become

459
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,640
a thing where there's The
Godfather 2, where there's the

460
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,360
French Connection to the
Exorcist 2, Rocky 2, that point

461
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:11,680
Jaws 2 at that point.
Like it was more OK this movie

462
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,640
was great, move on to the next
project.

463
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,800
And sequels were kind of
expected to do less than the

464
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,800
original, which is the inverse
now.

465
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,400
It was like if a sequel made 2/3
of what the original film made

466
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,360
at the box office, it was like
that was considered a win.

467
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,400
Great.
Success, right?

468
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,560
Considered a yeah, it was just
expected to be less than.

469
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,320
So all of that.
Like nobody was probably even

470
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,680
thinking in a serious way of
making a sequel to Psycho, let

471
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,600
alone doing it when Hitchcock
was alive.

472
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,280
It's not really till after he
passes that the wheels start

473
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,280
turning.
So starting in 1982, the author

474
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:57,480
of Psycho, writer Robert Block,
he is writing up and Brian has

475
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,880
look at that, all of these just
props right at the ready.

476
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,240
A copy of Robert Block's Psycho
too.

477
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:11,600
So, and the key thing here is
Robert Block has the book rights

478
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,840
to Psycho.
Like he's allowed to write

479
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,680
anything he wants regarding
Norman Bates, the mates Bates

480
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,440
Motel, that's all his.
However, Universal has like the

481
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,280
movie rights like block doesn't
necessarily have.

482
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,400
He doesn't have the right to
sell this work in order to like

483
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,120
profit from a movie deal.
But he's working on a a sequel

484
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:36,920
to Psycho, which would ends up
much different from the movie.

485
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,240
Universal reads the novel before
it's published and they're

486
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,400
horrified by it.
They're like, this is awful,

487
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,520
like they have no intention of
using it for a starting point.

488
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,320
Which?
I've read the book, Brian.

489
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:52,360
I got a little of an
understanding, like I'm sure

490
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:54,080
you've read it.
I have.

491
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Tell us about it, Brian.
OK, it's, it's like you said in

492
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,440
the notes, Mike.
Yes, it is a it is a kind of a

493
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:08,680
meta thing because Norman finds
out through his doctor that

494
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,560
there's a film being made about
his crimes.

495
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:18,240
And so he escapes from the
asylum by killing a nun and

496
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,600
dressing in her habit.
And he takes the other one with

497
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:29,160
him and sexually assaults her,
which is really gross.

498
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,920
And it's very graphic and
escapes.

499
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:39,120
And then I, I, I feel like if I
explain it, it'll give away what

500
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,360
happens because, OK, what
happens?

501
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,560
Norman dies like, early on.
Yeah.

502
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,960
But we don't know that Norman
died early on until you get to

503
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:49,920
the end of the book.
Someone, someone else has taken

504
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,880
over his persona and is and
heads to Hollywood and starts

505
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,920
murdering people on the set and
involved with the film.

506
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,960
Yeah, it kind of has that vibe
now.

507
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,840
Child of child of Chucky as
well, right?

508
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,120
Sure, Yeah, yeah, exactly.
And talent Bob Strike back only

509
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:10,920
with.
There you go.

510
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,600
Yeah, there you go.
But The thing is, I mean, yes,

511
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,640
it does have an assault scene.
That's pretty gross.

512
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,680
But for the most part it's kind
of a fun read and it has sort of

513
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:26,200
interesting stuff.
But it is the kind of movie.

514
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,640
I don't think it's filmable.
It's it's one of those where I

515
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,600
don't think it would work very
well as a movie.

516
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,680
But you know, you never know.
Sometimes people find an inroad,

517
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,800
but I it's I it's never going to
be made now.

518
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,920
But right, it's it's just a very
different approach than the

519
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,760
movie we got.
Well, but what's what's?

520
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:51,400
Funny is you kill its lead
character like in the fur.

521
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,560
And what would be the prologue,
really?

522
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,280
American Psycho 2 does like the
same thing, and it's also

523
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,200
considered trash.
It's also, yeah, bad.

524
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,920
Well, the person who finds the
inroad it's Australian director

525
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,360
Richard Franklin.
He and Robert Block like run

526
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,200
into one another at like a
science fiction like film

527
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,560
writer, film critic, film
director, writers convention in

528
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,960
in New Zealand.
And Franklin is a protege of

529
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:22,800
Hitchcock.
He's like he's someone who's

530
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,240
like studied him.
He hosted panels with Hitchcock

531
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,120
at USC and he asked Block what
he's working on and Block lets

532
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:33,080
him know I'm working on a novel,
Psycho 2.

533
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,680
Franklin agrees like this is a
trash book.

534
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,800
Like it's does not sound
appealing except for one thing.

535
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:45,800
And the in for him is 22 years
after the original Norman is set

536
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,720
free and he goes home.
That for him is like what the

537
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:51,720
appeal is.
And that's the hook that he

538
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,440
takes when he is asked to join
this product.

539
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,120
And you know, Brian, I'm going
to lean on you a little more

540
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,720
here because I think you and I
have some like notes on Franklin

541
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,240
as someone who studied under, I
don't want to say studied under

542
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,160
Hitchcock so much as he had a
lot of respect for him and did

543
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,800
host him at his university as
well.

544
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,400
Right, Right.
Yeah.

545
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,800
Now what I know about Franklin
is that he's just for me.

546
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,840
He's, I like him as like a
protege or a disciple of

547
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,040
Hitchcock a lot.
I think he kind of takes the

548
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,960
ideas and sort of the craft, you
know, elements what works, the

549
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:35,720
language and applies it to his
movies in a way that doesn't

550
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,440
feel like he's just ripping him
off.

551
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,440
And I have, I really like Rd.
games.

552
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:47,160
If you've never seen Rd. games
with Stacy Keach and Jamie Lee

553
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,040
Curtis is fantastic and highly
recommended.

554
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,520
And it's basically rear window
on the road.

555
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,440
And so he keeps on passing like
these different cars and you see

556
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,400
these different people who have
different lives in these

557
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,120
different cars.
And then, you know, they kind of

558
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,320
run afoul of a of a serial
killer.

559
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,960
And it's a terrific film.
So that's, I think probably the

560
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:14,320
movie that got him Psycho 2, you
know, set in stone to do Psycho

561
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,520
2.
And it's it's, yeah, it's

562
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,560
terrific.
Yeah.

563
00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,720
I highly recommend that one.
I haven't actually seen.

564
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,200
I looked at the other movies on
his filmography and I haven't

565
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,160
seen very many.
I've seen Cloak and Dagger.

566
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,560
I think Patrick might be what
he's best known for outside of

567
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:30,800
this movie.
Yeah.

568
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,800
Cloak and Dagger, which she does
with Tom Holland after this.

569
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,840
Yeah, they caught her up again.
Yeah, and I, I like both of

570
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,440
those movies.
I saw Patrick.

571
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,840
Patrick is a little bit of, you
know, sort of Kerry esque in a

572
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,880
way with with a comatose
patient.

573
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:49,720
It's an interesting movie.
And yeah, Cloak and Dagger.

574
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,960
I mean, that was sort of like a
staple of kid life in the 80s, I

575
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,680
think.
That was like HBO or Showtime,

576
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,200
like all the time, all the heavy
rotation.

577
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,520
Yeah, on the early days of
cable.

578
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,240
Well, speak like the early days
of cable.

579
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,440
Universal Studios, like they
they're not keen on making a

580
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,080
sequel to Psycho at all.
Like they don't really have any

581
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,440
interest, maybe in part because
they were just turned off by

582
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,960
Block's upcoming novel, But when
they initially green light the

583
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,120
sequel, they're not going to put
the movie in theaters.

584
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,920
They are going to release it
straight to cable television,

585
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:34,560
which in the early 80s cable T
VS Not in every household.

586
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,360
It's probably only in about 10
to 15% of households by that

587
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,360
point in the 80s.
Like it's still like a very new

588
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,240
idea.
So not only are you not going to

589
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,840
get it in a lot of households on
top of that, I think it was like

590
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,600
Showtime who they were thinking
of, like giving the film to that

591
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:59,720
10% of the households that
cables in, maybe 10 to 20% of

592
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,040
the people have access to
Showtime.

593
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,920
So.
You're not talking about really

594
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,080
having a big audience for this
movie at all.

595
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,600
Like if it was a movie of the
week, like if he had put it on

596
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:16,080
ABC or CBS, that would have, you
could have said like, that would

597
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,560
be a really big deal because
those movies routinely brought

598
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:25,560
in like 20 million, 30 million
people viewers every week.

599
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,400
And then it would be rewatch.
But putting it on Showtime in

600
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,679
1983, maybe a couple million
people have access to it.

601
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,080
Right.
I mean, even by the time they

602
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,840
did Psycho 4I, I mean a lot, a
lot more people at Showtime want

603
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,760
to aired there.
But still, I mean, I didn't see

604
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,600
Psycho 4 till years later 'cause
we didn't have any of that

605
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,480
premium pay stuff.
Yeah, Yeah.

606
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,920
It's a dumping ground.
I mean, it would be it would be

607
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,639
like it would be like selling an
original movie to like Pluto TV

608
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,040
at this point or the Roku
Channel right now.

609
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,600
Like not one of your go to like
I know like Toby has been doing

610
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,880
like Toby originals and.
Yeah.

611
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,000
Your mileage will vary on those,
but that would have been like

612
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,360
the only equivalent I can think
of in 2025 and far fewer people

613
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,080
would have access to it back
then.

614
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,400
They hire on Hilton A Green as
one of the producers of the

615
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,360
film.
He had been an assistant

616
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:28,720
director for Hitchcock on Psycho
and other works with Hitchcock

617
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:32,040
for about 20 years.
He was very worried about how

618
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,560
the film was going to be
received, so he made sure once

619
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,800
the script was completed, he
wanted to make sure that like

620
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:44,080
Patricia Hitchcock, Alfred and
Alma's like surviving daughter

621
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,480
that like she would sign off on
it, which she does.

622
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,280
After reading the script.
Franklin is hired to direct.

623
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,840
He hires writer Tom Holland to
write the movie and no, it is

624
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:59,580
not the Tom Holland from a
trilogy of well received Spider

625
00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:02,400
Man movies.
While this is the man who would

626
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,520
go on to direct the original
Fright Night, the original

627
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:09,120
Child's Play and A Matter of
Fact, like it's the reception

628
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,800
from Psycho to that kind of
gives Holland the ability to

629
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,600
kind of take that next step and
move into directing.

630
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,880
But Franklin had liked his work
and it wasn't on.

631
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,720
There was The Beast Within, I
believe, which he did not like.

632
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:25,800
And I think he joked with
Holland.

633
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,320
If I had seen that film, I
probably would not have hired

634
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,720
you for this.
But there's another script he

635
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,280
had written and I don't have it
at my fingertips that he really

636
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,200
liked the work.
He thought it did a great job of

637
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,960
building suspense and
atmosphere.

638
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,640
And Holland was hired based on
that.

639
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,960
And for Holland, like the hook
was keep Norman sympathetic like

640
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,120
the first film had done,
highlight that struggle to hold

641
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,840
on to insanity.
Like, you need to keep him.

642
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,400
Yes.
He's like, you know, maybe we'll

643
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,640
talk about is he even the
villain in this movie?

644
00:36:57,640 --> 00:36:59,680
He's really not.
He's your.

645
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,280
Assumed villain, but you need to
kind of keep him sympathetic

646
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,600
throughout.
He's kind of your final girl,

647
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,480
honestly.
That's yeah, kind of is kind of

648
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,240
have the Tucker and Dale versus
evil thing of it where it's like

649
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,560
all of these deaths are kind of
happening.

650
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,600
To college kids.
And he has really nothing to do.

651
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:20,120
Yeah.
Yeah.

652
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,440
So which.
Yeah, you're right.

653
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,720
Or high school kids.
So anyway, Anthony Perkins is a

654
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,880
hard no at first, partially
because it wasn't Tucker and

655
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,080
Dale versus evil, but psycho.
I think that's.

656
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,400
Well, that's understandable.
Understandable.

657
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,440
Perkins was angling to direct
the film.

658
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,080
He also, like we talked a little
bit about this when we did

659
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,440
Psycho.
He did not want to talk about

660
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,040
Norman Bates at all for a long.
Time felt.

661
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,720
He was really pigeonholed, left
Hollywood for a number of years

662
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:52,760
and like, went over to make
films in Europe.

663
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,400
Like he actually bought himself
out of his contract, Paramount,

664
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,520
because he was tired of like the
roles he was being pigeonholed

665
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:04,920
with in the 70s as well.
He undergoes conversion therapy.

666
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,080
Like he was a queer man.
He had only had male

667
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,400
relationships.
I think he says in an interview

668
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:15,600
he had his like first like
heterosexual experience in, in

669
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,200
his.
He's so in the 70s, like the

670
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,160
studios basically tell him
you're going to go through

671
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,680
conversion therapy or else,
right?

672
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,920
So it's a man who's really
struggling and I have to say a

673
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,360
ton because like, you know,
don't have like a ton of

674
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,320
information, but he does marry
in like the mid 70s, which gives

675
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,320
us Osgood Perkins and as well as
Elvis Perkins, one of I think

676
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,640
who has composed some of the
works for his brother Osgood.

677
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:49,000
I think so, yeah.
But it's much of a good

678
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,960
experience that Anthony Perkins
had making Psycho, the aftermath

679
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,280
of it and everything that he
felt limited to, both in like,

680
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:03,200
roles he was offered as well as
like how he was treated by

681
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,240
studios for his queerness,
really left a sour taste in his

682
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:07,600
mouth.
Yeah.

683
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,640
And it sucks because you know,
the movies that the non psycho

684
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,640
movies, some of them that are
sort of these underground cult

685
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,800
movies that are like pretty
poison is so good.

686
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,160
He was a director in a movie
called Play It as It Lays, which

687
00:39:23,240 --> 00:39:28,160
is really great.
And yeah, there was some there

688
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,480
was some interesting things that
he did and he wrote, he Co wrote

689
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,240
a great mystery movie, The Last
of Sheila I.

690
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,000
Love the last of Sheila.
Oh my God, that movie's amazing.

691
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,360
Yeah, he Co wrote that with
Stephen Sondheim.

692
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,360
He's incredible in Orson Welles,
The Trial.

693
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,720
Not to be the guy that he's
asking at Orson Welles, but no,

694
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,880
you're amazing.
Absolutely.

695
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,560
So there.
There's a lot of a lot of movies

696
00:39:53,560 --> 00:40:00,280
he made outside of Psycho
between, you know, between 1960

697
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:06,000
and 1982 that are really, really
terrific that I hope, you know,

698
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,280
now that we have the Internet,
we can see a whole filmography

699
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,000
of someone and you can seek out
those movies pretty easy now.

700
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,400
I it's, it's, which is we live
in an amazing time for that.

701
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:17,240
Yeah.
Right.

702
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,560
So I really hope that people
might do that.

703
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:25,400
He's also in a crazy Ken Russell
movie called Crimes of Passion,

704
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,560
where he plays a fetish priest.
Kind of.

705
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,760
Yeah.
It's a very, Yeah, I've heard of

706
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,600
that.
If you know anything, if you

707
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,800
know anything about Ken Russell.
I would.

708
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,320
Say, shocking.
Yeah, lots of, lots of, lots of,

709
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,000
lots of kink in that movie.
What?

710
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,560
Tell me more, Brian.
Interesting.

711
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:44,800
What?
Yeah.

712
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,760
So anyway, just throwing those
out there as possibilities for

713
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:52,440
your.
Viewing enjoyment I also want to

714
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,240
point the listeners to a really
great profile on Perkins that

715
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:59,280
was done by YouTube.
Matt Baum, who does like queer

716
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,120
history in film and television,
has a really good kind of

717
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,280
biography of him on his his
channel that he did a couple

718
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,280
years ago that is really, really
incredible and kind of tracks

719
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,360
his queer journey a little bit
more, which is is very

720
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,840
interesting so.
Yeah, throw us a link.

721
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,880
We'll maybe even put that in the
notes here as well.

722
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,320
Sure, I'll look for that right
now.

723
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,000
So when Perkins initially says
no, and the idea is like, well,

724
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,280
it's going to be a cable movie
anyway, Christopher Walken is

725
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,280
approached to take over the role
of Norman Bates, which

726
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,680
fascinating.
It's.

727
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,240
Fascinating.
I kind of wonder if he would

728
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,040
Telegraph, but he is capable of
playing.

729
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,320
I mean like in the dead zone.
For example, he's coming off the

730
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,160
dead zone.
Yeah, yeah, I, I was very.

731
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,120
Sympathetic in that film, yeah.
Absolutely.

732
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:54,360
So, you know, it's a he's, he
has not yet sort of become what

733
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,440
we think of when we think of
Christopher Walken.

734
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,200
Right, I think.
Well, Perkins does.

735
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,440
They get him a copy of the
script and they're like, just

736
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:03,880
read it.
Just like, tell us what you

737
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,800
think and consider it.
And he reads it and he loves the

738
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,040
script.
He sees what Holland is going

739
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,920
for in the portrayal of Norman.
And he sees it like that

740
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,920
sympathy for Norman is coming
through.

741
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,160
That struggle that he's going to
face in this film is coming

742
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,120
through.
So he signs on board.

743
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:24,600
He's like, you know what?
I'll do it.

744
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,760
I'll come back.
I'll play the role in Universal

745
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,320
Shifts.
They're thinking they're like,

746
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,320
you know, instead of making a
super cheap made for cable TV

747
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,000
movie, what if we made a super
cheap theatrical movie instead?

748
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,240
Like we will release this in the
theaters.

749
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:44,240
Basically, yeah, yeah.
To the point we'll talk before

750
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:46,960
we talk about the house and in
the motel again.

751
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,480
Now they need to find their Co
lead casting Mary and there's a

752
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,000
pretty wide search for this role
like Linda Hamilton who was then

753
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:59,800
unknown auditions for it,
Kathleen Turner audition and the

754
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,720
thought was like she's great,
she's amazing.

755
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,800
She's way too strong a presence.
Like they could not.

756
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,840
Kathleen Turner.
Really.

757
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,040
Yeah.
No one could see Kathleen Turner

758
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,920
falling for Norman Gates in this
movie, which is fair.

759
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,360
I mean, yeah, I think that's a
fair.

760
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,840
It would be a much different
movie.

761
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,600
Carrie Fisher auditioned as
well, and they liked her enough

762
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,160
where they were going to offer
it to her.

763
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,360
I think Holland says that, like,
Fisher talked them out of

764
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,280
offering it to her, like after
the audition and he's like.

765
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:37,240
I think she was busy.
She also might have been

766
00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,640
shooting Return of the Jedi.
Like, he's like, I think she had

767
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,080
something else.
And I'm like, well, the times

768
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,160
line up where she has to go back
and do Princess Leia.

769
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,880
Yeah.
Both movies come out in 83, so

770
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,800
yeah, tracks.
Right at the same time too,

771
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,640
like, yeah, Jedis and theaters
when Psycho 2 comes out.

772
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,400
Holland says he's like Fisher
mentioned Meg Tilly to him and

773
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,400
Meg Tilly like she had been a
dancer who suffered like a

774
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,440
career ending injury, so she
turned to acting instead, which

775
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,960
one does Like I'll just take on
this completely unrelated thing.

776
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,720
And at that time, she's unknown,
but she had drawn some praise

777
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:16,640
for her work and thumb.
Mclaughlin's one dark night.

778
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,360
McLaughlin would go on to do
Jason Lives Friday the 13th Part

779
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:25,240
6, IE the funny one, IE maybe
the second best one in the whole

780
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:28,800
series behind Part 4I.
Come on, you're raising your.

781
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,560
I actually look, I actually put
part. 6 #1.

782
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,480
I don't 6 is my favorite.
I don't, 6 is my favorite.

783
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,640
What?
We've Mike, We've discussed my

784
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,120
controversial Friday the 13th
takes on this podcast.

785
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,080
Remember.
I like 7 sevens, the one I like.

786
00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:47,240
Sevens not good.
That's what I keep hearing, and

787
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,120
yet I disagree.
Well.

788
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:51,840
Meg Tilly was good.
Good enough?

789
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,720
My.
The ranking is the only correct

790
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,440
ranking of Friday the 13th
series, so you know.

791
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,640
You and everyone else, Brian.
Yeah, but three of your movies

792
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,200
are Nightmare on Elm Street
movies like there's. 3 like.

793
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,800
Brian Wes Craven did not direct
Friday the 13th like this false

794
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,920
you.
Guys just like to fuck with me.

795
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,440
#3 people under the senior
tracks number. 4.

796
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,320
Anyway, Tilly's hired on board
and, you know, she's going to go

797
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:21,520
on to, like, earn an Oscar
nomination in a Golden Globe

798
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,400
Award for Agnes of God.
The same here, I think.

799
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,760
Yep.
Like, soon after.

800
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,560
Like, they get her pretty early.
They're in.

801
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,480
Yeah.
Why did she leave acting?

802
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,440
I mean, she goes on to become a
writer.

803
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,200
I do not know.
Like I don't have a lot of She's

804
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:41,360
the the younger sister of
Jennifer Tilly who would go on

805
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,560
who we love was not performing
at this point, who no one has

806
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,160
ever looked better in a movie
than she does in Bride of

807
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,760
Chucky.
I love Jennifer Tilly so much.

808
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,840
Have you ever seen the movie Let
It Ride with Richard Dreyfuss?

809
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,320
I have not.
Jennifer Tilly is.

810
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,600
Richard Dreyfuss.
Movies.

811
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,200
Fair enough.
Jennifer Tilly is in that,

812
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,280
though, and she might be in
competition with herself.

813
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,120
OK, fair enough.
She Yeah.

814
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,240
So I that's that's a that's AI
haven't seen bound.

815
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:12,880
Bound is really, yeah, bound.
So great.

816
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,160
There's a lot of great Jennifer.
Tilly material out there?

817
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:21,600
Meg Tilly, I think kind of
transitions to writing and she's

818
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:23,800
she's written several books
actually.

819
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,840
So there you go.
I think that's why she kind of

820
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,960
left acting.
My wife is just sending me

821
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,920
random furniture as we record
which she knows I hate.

822
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,400
Just those that I hate.
Like just text me random.

823
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:38,840
Random ferm, yeah.
Just something that she does.

824
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,240
I'm like, please stop.
And she'll just keep keep doing

825
00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:42,280
it.
Stress like around your

826
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,400
apartment or just while she's
out and about somewhere?

827
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,920
No, just like I'm like, hey, I'm
looking.

828
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,720
From the Internet.
And she'll just send me like 30

829
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,760
different things to consider and
I'm like, this is stressful.

830
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,280
I know you're not doing anything
right now, but talking about

831
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,440
movies, yeah.
So here's 50 pictures of

832
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,800
furniture.
It's just, yeah, I'm not

833
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:03,440
kidding.
Like, here's the side table.

834
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,240
And then she sent my daughter
vanities.

835
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,680
This is very fascinating and
fascinating for our listeners,

836
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,200
the psyche.
Behind the curtain like.

837
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,120
This is what happens.
I've I've like, hey, just stop

838
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,160
texting our kid random furniture
because it stresses us out and

839
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,440
she's like, no, I'll just send
it to you now.

840
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,520
So took a bullet for the kid.
Well, Perkins, like, tries to

841
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:28,840
have Tilly fire twice on set,
like they did not get along with

842
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,480
one another.
I think Vera Miles also had some

843
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,720
issues with her as well.
Holland wrote about it and he

844
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,800
spoke about it a little bit.
He kind of dances around it.

845
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,080
But I think the feeling was like
Tilly had not seen the original

846
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,240
Psycho.
And I think at one point, like

847
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,800
asked out loud, why is everybody
treating Anthony Perkins like

848
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,000
he's the star of this movie?
Like she just didn't get it.

849
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,400
Wow.
That was one of the things that

850
00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:59,640
came out and that's.
Amazing.

851
00:47:59,720 --> 00:48:01,680
That's amazing.
I love that so.

852
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,280
Much.
And she pushed back on him a

853
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:04,760
little bit.
Like, good for her.

854
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,040
Like she kind of holds her
ground.

855
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,160
Sure.
Yeah, it's going to be.

856
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,160
Interesting, that's your answer
as to why she left acting.

857
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,960
Maybe.
You know, maybe just some bad

858
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,280
experiences.
Maybe I like writing better.

859
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,600
It's going to be interesting
talking about Perkins,

860
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,360
especially in the later mood
when you get to Part 4.

861
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,640
He like, really gives Mick
Garris a hard time over like

862
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,800
every little thing.
Like he basically.

863
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,080
Richard Dreyfuss.
Yeah, you know, that sort of

864
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,800
thing.
Yeah, he basically Richard

865
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,920
Dreyfuss's Mick Garris during
that.

866
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,760
I just don't like Richard
Dreyfuss.

867
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,040
I.
Don't even know what that means,

868
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,080
but I'm not sure.
He's just being a Dick.

869
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:45,960
You know, I, I had my, my, my Co
host holy terrors Pat one day,

870
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,960
he said.
You know, I just watched Jaws

871
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,800
and it's almost a perfect movie
except Hooper should die at the

872
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,040
end.
Yeah.

873
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,160
So like.
Anyway.

874
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,360
I mean.
So he's like, there's no like,

875
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:00,760
there's no reason why Hooper
should live in this movie.

876
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,360
I do like that anyways, I'll
disagree with your Co host

877
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:04,960
there.
Yeah, yeah, I, I do.

878
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,400
I was just.
Because I think that little

879
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,160
moment at the end that Brody and
Hooper have is really good.

880
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,120
I agree.
But you know, if Richard

881
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,640
Dreyfuss were to drown, then you
know Pete, no big deal.

882
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,760
Hooper should survive Hooper.
Should serve Richard Richard

883
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,280
Dreyfuss, but Rich Dreyfuss
should right at the the.

884
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,440
End of Jaws if I don't know
who's the guy that plays Khan in

885
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,520
Star Trek 2?
Ricardo, Ricardo.

886
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,080
Makarov if he pops up at the end
of Jaws and it's like it.

887
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,680
Like like.
Cooper, it's you.

888
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,440
Like that would have been
absolutely amazing.

889
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,200
That is a moment.
That was a moment.

890
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:49,360
That would have been Jaws.
Six stars.

891
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,160
That would have been amazing.
All right, I do want to say the

892
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:56,920
the remaining cast and crew,
Holland and and Franklin, they

893
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:58,960
do speak very highly of Meg
Chili.

894
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:00,680
Like they had no issues and they
fought.

895
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,600
They're like, no, we're not
firing her and not replacing

896
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:04,400
her.
Like absolutely.

897
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,400
She's very good in this.
Movie till he's very good in

898
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:09,360
this movie as well like she's
perfect for the role that's

899
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,920
written here.
Sarah miles comes back as Lila

900
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:16,040
Loomis and I have an ick there
for the Loomis part of it.

901
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,680
It's like that we'll talk about
that.

902
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,960
She had been semi retired by
then but she was on board for

903
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,400
the heels right.
I think when she read the

904
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,440
script, she's like, I get to do
this, like just RIP lung darts

905
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,640
and try to drive a man crazy.
Absolutely sign me up for this.

906
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,960
And she basically would regale
the crew with like shit talk

907
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:36,920
about Alfred Hitchcock and John
Ford.

908
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:38,280
I mean.
Really.

909
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,400
Which I'm sure they were all
there for.

910
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,840
She's like, you know, John Ford
was such a bastard.

911
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,800
You know, I'm sure that there
was plenty of time.

912
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:49,040
Yeah.
There was this one time, you

913
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:50,040
know.
Yeah.

914
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,240
And I think it was like
good-natured, but there was some

915
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:55,960
intent behind it.
It's like those between the

916
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,520
lines there other cast members a
note like a young Dennis Franz

917
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,000
looking like us.
The second runner up for Ron

918
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,680
Jeremy look alike contest.
Yes, Sheboygan County Fair.

919
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,480
It looked like he just ate an
entire plate of Polish sausages

920
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,960
and then came to set Just.
Yeah, it's just like.

921
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,600
Meat sweats pouring off, Yeah.
And they, Franklin and Holland,

922
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,360
they credit, they do credit
Brian De Palma for like

923
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,440
discovering France, like he had
done some work on body double.

924
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,160
And oh, yeah, they were like
really happy to get him on.

925
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:30,080
You know, he just, he's sweaty
his hair, like he's just like,

926
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:32,120
give me a.
He's so perfect for that role.

927
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,800
He gives.
He's actually, he might be.

928
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:36,280
He might be my favorite thing
about this movie.

929
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:39,000
He's something, you know,
depending on the day.

930
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,400
I'm like, man, he's so
entertaining.

931
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:46,120
Just that Dick, unapologetic
Chicago accent, like Oh my God,

932
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:47,800
it's amazing.
So perfect the way he.

933
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaks the title of the movie
into like every.

934
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,320
Other psycho.
Pick it up.

935
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,480
Come on, psycho.
Yeah, he just.

936
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,600
Like, was it like screwing that
psycho?

937
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,800
Yeah.
Like what kind of were the kind

938
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:04,360
of motel that makes money just
like you know?

939
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:06,240
Yeah.
They come here.

940
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,880
Fire me.
They come here to screw, you

941
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,120
know, and have a good time.
Yeah.

942
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,080
Love it.
He's really fun of this.

943
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,080
The other cast ever a note Mr.
Robert Loja.

944
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,160
So we need to talk about Mr.
Robert Loja a bit.

945
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:24,240
Robert Loja.
To to the rest of the show in

946
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:26,280
that you're Robert Loja voice
so.

947
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,560
Hi, Mike.
It's me, Robert Loja.

948
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,920
One of the great character
actors.

949
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,560
You know, a real 100.
Percent.

950
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,160
Yeah, he's.
Basically any, but also.

951
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:41,000
Capable of like really deep
sensitivity too.

952
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,560
Like I saw him last year in the
M Night Shyamalan film Wide

953
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:48,840
Awake and he is like really like
sweet and sensitive and

954
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,360
sentimental in that too.
Like he's just able to make

955
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,280
these wild swings in his acting
persona and it I think that's

956
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,600
what makes him so great as an
actor.

957
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,880
He's the toy, the toy store.
The toy store.

958
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,480
Dancing.
The big Yeah dance dancing on

959
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,360
the pants.
That's where I first knew of.

960
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:10,600
Robert Loja I mean, I.
First saw him as the asshole

961
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,480
grandfather in Over the Top,
which I did see in theaters.

962
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:19,440
I did see that theatrically.
I have still not seen that, but

963
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:20,600
it's.
Awesome.

964
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,800
It's like Rocky 4 but with arm.
Wrestling.

965
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,680
If you only.
The Russians.

966
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,880
One arm?
No, but it's against like King

967
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,520
Hippo and the Mike Tyson punch
out like that is dude.

968
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,240
OK, got.
It with muscle.

969
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:42,080
OK, Brian, if you only watch one
movie about competitive arm

970
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,560
wrestling this year, you have to
make it.

971
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:46,880
Make it over to the top, yeah?
It's isn't it?

972
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,000
Isn't it?
Aren't there semi trucks in that

973
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,000
one as well?
There are.

974
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:51,240
There's like a semi trucks.
Yeah.

975
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,320
I think I caught like 5 minutes
of it on on like TNT when I was

976
00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,240
a child.
How do you only watch five?

977
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,720
You see Stallone driving an 18
Wheeler doing this?

978
00:54:00,720 --> 00:54:04,640
I was like, I'm gonna do the.
Oh, he's turning around the hat.

979
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:08,920
He's turning the hat around.
Backwards like is a young 12

980
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,360
year old Steven sees that you
how are you not in for the.

981
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:14,480
Rest of that I was much younger
than that.

982
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,880
I was probably like 8 or 9
honestly.

983
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,560
Like still.
I don't know.

984
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,920
I was, I was.
I was trying to find cartoons,

985
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,320
Mike.
That's what I was.

986
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,800
Into it's pretty much a cartoon.
It's pretty much a cartoon.

987
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:31,080
Over the time as a certified
Stallone fan, I I'm gonna have

988
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:35,480
to catch up on this one.
OK, not a not a big fan of the,

989
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,560
you know, latest, you know,
political.

990
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:44,760
Stances of the man.
But yeah, as the icon, Sylvester

991
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:48,760
Stallone, I love the man.
I love the pose, the actor.

992
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,640
We do over the top as a watch
along for the Patreon page, but

993
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:55,720
you guys, it has to be your
first.

994
00:54:55,720 --> 00:54:58,200
Time it has to be.
Our first yes, I'm you know

995
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,240
what?
I'm in for that.

996
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,320
I would do that.
We'll.

997
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:06,000
Set that, Brian.
Not as excited, Steven.

998
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:10,440
Yeah, I'm in, Brian.
OK, if I have to, I'll do it.

999
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,320
Sure.
Who, if we ever have like a pod

1000
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,640
and pendulum gathering, like we
just meet somewhere in the

1001
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:18,360
country?
I would love that, yeah.

1002
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,280
Which we need to do.
We need to maybe do a

1003
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,240
competitive arm wrestling which.
What are you trying?

1004
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:29,800
To do to me, Mike.
We should just like find a I.

1005
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,840
Haven't been to the gym like all
year.

1006
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:33,120
Same.
Well, I mean.

1007
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaking of him not shopping a
lot.

1008
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,440
Here is all like that guy in
that movie, but just.

1009
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,640
Working out the one arm so I can
win this thing.

1010
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,960
I mean all school year, so, you
know, it's been a few months so

1011
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,080
you know, every day.
Yeah, yeah.

1012
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:47,760
So I yeah, I'll just do the one
arm thing.

1013
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,440
Yeah.
There we go.

1014
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,120
That's it.
I'll just one dumbbell and just

1015
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,440
keep going all.
Right now she's just emailing

1016
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,080
the whole thrift stores.
Just thrift stores.

1017
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:01,680
This is a.
Really exciting subplot.

1018
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,560
Psycho.
Psycho too.

1019
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,360
Well, the other thing Robert
Loja I think might be best known

1020
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,520
for is this little commercial
from the early 90s.

1021
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:16,360
I present to you guys Robert
Loja, orange juice pitchman.

1022
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:19,960
And we're going to play that for
you here folks, cuz I've

1023
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:24,840
listened to this, no, no lie,
like 100 times over the

1024
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:27,960
preparing for the show.
This is, this is what we say.

1025
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,880
It sparks joy.
So let me just give me the

1026
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,360
thumbs up if you guys hear it on
the feed, all right?

1027
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,200
Try some new minute made orange
tangerine.

1028
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,960
It's got calcium.
Then I'm not drinking it.

1029
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:40,720
Oh no, it's sweet.
You'll like it.

1030
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:42,840
I don't believe you.
Well then, who would you

1031
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:44,640
believe?
I don't know Robert Loja.

1032
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,480
Really.
Your mother's right.

1033
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:53,840
No Minute Maid Orange tangerine
tastes great.

1034
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:55,560
This got as much calcium as
milk.

1035
00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,360
If you say so, Mr. Loja.
Yeah.

1036
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,560
This is great.
Enjoy your breakfast.

1037
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:02,720
New Minute Maid Orange tangerine
with calcium.

1038
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:08,440
Yeah, no Robert Loja.
It's that last yeah, for me.

1039
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:13,120
Yeah, yeah, a couple of things.
Because like, this is an audio

1040
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,840
medium, would you and I, I
strongly encourage every

1041
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:20,080
listener pause the show, go
watch this commercial.

1042
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,880
Like just put the link.
In the show, you might as well.

1043
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,400
Might as well a when he walks in
for the first time, like the

1044
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,960
mom's face, like she's like
knows that someone's getting

1045
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,960
laid and it's mom.
Like she looks psyched, like

1046
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:37,800
Robert Loesch is about to lay
some pipe, you know?

1047
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:40,360
Robert Loesch is going to plow
Mom later.

1048
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:42,720
The your.
Mother's right.

1049
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:48,080
Dad looks like a a young Elias
Cateus as well like character

1050
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:51,800
actor Elias Cateus.
But what do you think goes

1051
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:57,360
beyond in like a pitch room in
the 90s where you're Don Draper

1052
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,880
of whatever of, of Coca-Cola
products is like, we what we

1053
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:06,560
really need to sell this orange
juice to kids is character actor

1054
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,720
extraordinaire Robert Loja.
Or Loja, I think you work

1055
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:12,200
backwards.
Like Robert Loja is wanting to

1056
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,280
pitch something.
What do we have, I don't know,

1057
00:58:15,400 --> 00:58:17,360
orange juice.
How do we pitch orange juice

1058
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,920
with Robert Loja?
And they, they craft the most

1059
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,600
absurd scenario possible.
And it's that.

1060
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,600
Yeah, like, that's that's the
only way.

1061
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,080
I think you have to reverse
engineer that shit in my mind.

1062
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,520
And the kids performance is
like, it's Emmy worthy, like.

1063
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,760
It makes it work, you say?
So, Mr. Lotia.

1064
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Because his face really makes
cheeks puff out when he like

1065
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,600
sees and like just the kids
react.

1066
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,600
Here's some orange juice.
And the kids like, it's like it

1067
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:46,040
has calcium.
It tastes great.

1068
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,280
He's like, I don't believe you.
Like, what kid says that?

1069
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,800
And it's the 90s.
So that commercial could have

1070
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,120
gone a lot different way where
the next thing you hear is just

1071
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,280
some kid getting like smacked
across the face and it's APSA

1072
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,760
for like, not beating your kids
at the breakfast.

1073
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,160
Table.
I learned it from watching you,

1074
00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:05,640
dad.
I learned it from watching

1075
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:10,680
Robert Loja.
You know who but like who would

1076
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,720
you but the dad like bargaining?
Like who would you believe?

1077
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,320
And, and just I just love that
you speak his name and Robert

1078
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,840
Loja appears much like Joe
Hendry.

1079
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,880
Just would that it?
Would that it?

1080
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:26,280
Still happened because like
Robert Loja busting through the

1081
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,880
door, like Oh my gosh it.
Yeah, it's.

1082
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,320
That is a piece of outsider art.
It really is that.

1083
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,600
That's not a commercial.
That's a piece of outsider art.

1084
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:37,000
I'm just going to play it one
more time, then we'll move on

1085
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:41,360
because it's just believe you.
Try some new minute made orange

1086
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,320
tangerine.
It's got calcium.

1087
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:45,960
Then I'm not drinking it.
Oh no, it's.

1088
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:47,760
Sweet, you'll like it.
I don't believe you.

1089
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,080
Well then, who would you
believe?

1090
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,680
I don't know Robert Loja.
Whoa.

1091
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,120
Your mother's right, Minute
Maid.

1092
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,240
Orange tangerine tastes great.
This got as much calcium.

1093
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:07,560
As milk.
Breakfast.

1094
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:13,160
The ground.
Yes, is what does it also how?

1095
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,960
Say so, Mr. Loeschow.
How like he steps on Billy's

1096
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,040
line like, right away.
Like, Oh yeah, he's just like

1097
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:23,640
Billy, you listen to your mom's,
right?

1098
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,720
The steps on the kids line, like
giving no quarter whatsoever.

1099
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,440
I love it.
Petition to add your mother's

1100
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,000
right to the recurring
soundboard on this podcast.

1101
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,680
He'll be chopping.
We'll be particularly for the

1102
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:39,960
rest of this franchise, Yeah, in
particular because.

1103
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:44,280
Yeah.
Unfortunately, yeah, Robert Loja

1104
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:48,360
is only in Psycho 2.
Well, I know, but the mother,

1105
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,120
the mother element.
And we also need Frank, too.

1106
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:54,280
Oh my groin.
Hard work.

1107
01:00:54,680 --> 01:01:01,200
I mean, we've, we've, yeah, a,
a, a rap battle with like the

1108
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,640
Oh, my groin from George C Scott
and Robert.

1109
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,280
Loja, Loja.
We need some sort.

1110
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,440
We need some sort of mash up,
all right?

1111
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,960
Yeah, your mother's right.
Oh, my groin.

1112
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:15,480
Yeah.
I mean, you know what's going.

1113
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,120
On It's a trap.
I can't think of.

1114
01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:22,400
Anyone I want to be in an orgy
with less than like George C

1115
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:30,440
Scott and Robert Loja Dennis.
Franz, the sweatiest origin

1116
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:31,440
would.
Ever be there?

1117
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:36,480
He would just be there watching.
Just munching on Polish sausages

1118
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:37,720
in the well, great.
God.

1119
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,520
Oh my gosh.
All right, well, just wait until

1120
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,000
we add Jeff Fahey to the Mix and
Psycho.

1121
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:44,320
I love Jeff Fahey.
Love.

1122
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,040
Jeff, he literally does sit in
the corner and watch in that

1123
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:50,920
movie.
Jeff Fahey can do no Rd.

1124
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:52,600
Spoils.
Brian, Yeah.

1125
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:57,080
Sorry.
Well, well, who would watch on

1126
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,040
the set of?
Trashy, trashy movie.

1127
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,560
Frank.
And I love it so much.

1128
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,560
Franklin.
He goes on to populate the is

1129
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,000
cutting right back in now like
nothing has happened.

1130
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,000
Franklin goes on to populate the
crew with a number of

1131
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:17,360
Hitchcock's former crew who, in
his words, like they spoke

1132
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,640
respectfully but not
particularly warmly about Alfred

1133
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:26,680
Hitchcock in their experiences.
They did try to get his personal

1134
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,160
assistant to come on board.
She politely declined.

1135
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,560
Edith Head, who'd done all the
costuming for Hitchcock

1136
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,880
throughout the 50s.
She had an office like right

1137
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:40,080
next to the production on the
lot as well.

1138
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,520
One thing to note, the Psycho
house and the motel are like,

1139
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:48,160
they're not there when they
start production like they had

1140
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:52,720
been, You know, we think of like
the Universal tour and like, you

1141
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,280
know, vans going by, like the
buses going by.

1142
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,160
Like that's such a staple of the
back lot tour.

1143
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,440
It had been torn down like a few
years.

1144
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,840
Like I think by like 63, the
hotel is gone.

1145
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,800
It'd been repurposed for other
sets.

1146
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:12,600
The Bates home is gone.
So they have to recreate both.

1147
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:16,520
And it's at a point in history
where you can't just pick up

1148
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:21,160
like a DVD and like, counts,
Like, they have to, like, get

1149
01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:23,840
prints of the work and go
through, like, books on the

1150
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:28,600
making of Psycho just to count
how many stairs were used in

1151
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:33,080
order to create this set.
So there were no blueprints for

1152
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:38,160
the house or the motel either.
So they're kind of like running

1153
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,640
on like, well, let's, you know,
the Franklin and and Holland,

1154
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,680
like, grab a lot of Hitchcock's
old films and they're trying to,

1155
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,000
like, faithfully recreate it as
well.

1156
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,240
So after this movie, yeah, these
things would stay up for good.

1157
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:54,800
And I think it's fair to say,
like, the movie's a success, but

1158
01:03:55,120 --> 01:04:00,400
they've probably made its money
back like 10 times over just on

1159
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:04,400
people taking like the back lot
tour specifically to go see the

1160
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,600
Psycho house, right?
Yeah.

1161
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:09,800
Yeah.
Another person who doesn't

1162
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:13,400
return was composer Bernard
Herrmann, in part because he had

1163
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:18,400
died on Christmas Eve 1975
shortly after turning in his

1164
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:23,360
score for Taxi Driver.
So one of the producers that

1165
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,320
they do suggest John Williams
because like every movie, like

1166
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:28,520
who do you like?
Who should we get?

1167
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:32,440
John Williams.
But Franklin's first choice was

1168
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,480
composer Jerry Goldsmith, who
had scored the Star Trek films

1169
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:39,600
Alien.
He does Kremlins like it's

1170
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:41,960
basically it's Williams and
Goldsmith are.

1171
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,120
Like the two?
Like they're the the gold

1172
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,720
standards, right?
And Brian, maybe you can speak a

1173
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:51,520
bit more of like what makes him
such a a respected composer?

1174
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,080
Goldsmith is interesting because
he, he's kind of more of a

1175
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:01,200
chameleon and then like Williams
is you instantly recognize a

1176
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:04,320
Williams score.
I, I think they're very

1177
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,760
thematically based for the most
part, with few exceptions.

1178
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:13,120
So I mean, Williams is known for
memorable themes.

1179
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:18,000
I think Goldsmith is more than
he's got some memorable themes,

1180
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,600
like, you know, the Star Trek
theme, for example.

1181
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:27,320
But he's more known for just
like creating the right mood.

1182
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:34,160
Yeah, he, he can just nail it
with the mood every time, doing

1183
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:38,520
things as diverse as, you know,
something dark like this or

1184
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:40,320
Poltergeist.
But then, you know, like the

1185
01:05:40,320 --> 01:05:43,320
burbs or gremlins, which you
know, right.

1186
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:45,720
And then that's staying in the
horror sphere.

1187
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,360
And I mean, he's Dante's guy.
Like Dante uses him on every

1188
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:52,880
movie.
Dante uses him on everything,

1189
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:57,840
used him on everything.
And there's another one who

1190
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,200
there's another director.
He used him all the time too.

1191
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,080
I can't, I'm spacing.
But yeah, he's sort of.

1192
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:09,280
I remember, you know, in college
people were like, oh, Williams

1193
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:14,720
is is the epitome.
And Goldsmith is like, he's

1194
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,600
good.
But you know, now as I've gotten

1195
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,120
older, I actually have kind of
flipped that.

1196
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:25,360
I think that Williams is, like I
said, memorable themes,

1197
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:32,160
unforgettable music.
But at the same time, it's as

1198
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:36,720
far as musicality.
I mean, just like throwing it on

1199
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,480
the turntable and listening to
things.

1200
01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:44,200
I think that Goldsmith is more
complex, is a little bit more

1201
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,320
able to do a broader variety of
things.

1202
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:52,840
And this is not to disparage
John Williams in any sense.

1203
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:56,440
I they're, they're not rivals.
I mean, there was sort of this

1204
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,040
fake rivalry, no Beatles versus
The Rolling Stones thing with

1205
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:02,560
them.
But it's not really the case.

1206
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:04,480
I mean, they were colleagues and
they respected each other.

1207
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:13,160
But I've really grown to
appreciate Goldsmith so much

1208
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:17,560
more than I ever did before.
I think he's, he was, he was

1209
01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:23,480
brilliant and underrated in a
lot of ways because he didn't,

1210
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:27,520
you know, have Star Wars and
Indiana Jones and Superman and

1211
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:35,440
Jaws and you know, you know, he,
he, he worked with, he didn't,

1212
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,760
he worked with the journeyman
more than he worked with the

1213
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:42,000
otters, you know, and that's
kind of the way it was so.

1214
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,520
So many of Spielberg movies were
so big, and Williams literally

1215
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:47,880
does.
All of those, exactly.

1216
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:51,280
Like he he and and he's the king
of the light motif.

1217
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,200
So like the the thieves are the
big thing.

1218
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:57,760
And his themes are so very like
Marian, exactly.

1219
01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,360
Recognizable, instinctive.
Yeah.

1220
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:01,600
So those are the things that
people latch onto.

1221
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,800
I mean, there's a handful of
Jerry Goldsmith's themes that I

1222
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,200
think most people know, like the
Star Trek 1 and the Gremlins

1223
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:09,960
rag.
And like, there's there's stuff

1224
01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:12,800
that he's done that people know,
but it's not because of the

1225
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:14,760
popularity and the ubiquity of
Spielberg.

1226
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,520
I don't think he's he's not the
household name that Williams

1227
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,120
became, right?
Exactly.

1228
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:23,880
It feels like Brian, like what
you just said, like persons who

1229
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:29,359
love film and love composing
have a slight preference to

1230
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:33,120
Goldsmith over Williams.
Like more so than just your

1231
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:37,800
casual movie watcher for like
the reasons you expressed, which

1232
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:41,720
is that versatility that you
can't necessarily pick out like

1233
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:46,600
a Jerry Goldsmith theme, like
you or sound so much as like he

1234
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:51,960
can do a lot more.
And he tends to work in a

1235
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:56,200
variety of genres where, you
know, Williams is like the key,

1236
01:08:56,240 --> 01:09:00,240
the king of like making that
recognizable theme, like that

1237
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:02,279
thing that you're going to be
humming when you walk out of the

1238
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:05,120
movie theater.
Like he is the king of that.

1239
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:08,439
And I love it when Williams was
able to sort of stretch away

1240
01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,359
from that, you know, like
something like Catch Me If You

1241
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:13,920
Can, Yeah, which is a really
unique score.

1242
01:09:14,319 --> 01:09:16,520
But he didn't get to do that as
much.

1243
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,200
He was sort of the big IP guy,
right?

1244
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:26,640
And so when Williams was always
able to, or I'm sorry, Goldsmith

1245
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:31,359
was always able to do stuff,
that was the first because he

1246
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:33,960
wasn't always the big IP guy,
right?

1247
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,200
As they're getting ready to
like, wrap this movie up, one of

1248
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,640
the things that Franklin and
Holland do, which I found really

1249
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:47,160
fascinating, like they knew they
may be in for like a tough ride

1250
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,640
critically because they're doing
something that so many critics

1251
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,600
would have thought of
sacrilegious, like making a

1252
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,280
sequel to a Hitchcock film like
Psycho.

1253
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,040
And one of the things they did,
which I found really kind of

1254
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:04,040
fascinating, to kind of like
steel themselves against that

1255
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:09,440
because they gathered a lot of
the reviews and clippings when

1256
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:14,280
Psycho was initially released.
And we talked about this last

1257
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,240
week.
Like Psycho would go on to be

1258
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:21,760
seen as a classic in one of the
more innovative films that

1259
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:27,640
Hitchcock crafted, as well as
one of the real like tent poles

1260
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:31,600
of of modern horror.
But on his initial release, I

1261
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,240
don't want to say that it was,
like, savaged by critics.

1262
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:38,400
There were a few that really
hated it, but it got mixed to

1263
01:10:38,440 --> 01:10:41,560
middling reviews.
And Franklin and Holland, like,

1264
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:45,560
gathered all those clippings and
read them and re read them to

1265
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,520
remind themselves.
Like, critics don't always get

1266
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:51,720
it right right away.
And if they were confident in

1267
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:57,200
the film that they created, they
would they could be happy with

1268
01:10:57,200 --> 01:10:59,160
the end result.
And I really like that detail.

1269
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:00,840
I thought that was a good.
Yeah.

1270
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:04,760
Well, you were talking about
when you talk about sequels, the

1271
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:07,240
sequels you mentioned were all
of movies that had come out

1272
01:11:07,240 --> 01:11:09,640
recently.
You know, The Godfather Part 2

1273
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,600
is 2 years after The Godfather,
you know, I mean, so the

1274
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:17,680
Godfather hadn't become the
Godfather yet.

1275
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:25,000
You know, when Part 2 came out,
this psycho had become psycho.

1276
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:32,200
So to do a sequel to something
that was so monumental is really

1277
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,480
daring, and I think that I have
to give those guys credits for

1278
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:41,840
for, for being brave enough to
really take this on.

1279
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,360
Is.
And for it to turn out as well

1280
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:47,080
as it does is pretty
astonishing.

1281
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,600
Is this the first legacy legacy
sequel?

1282
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:51,640
Like is this like I was one or
one of?

1283
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:55,400
I was thinking the same thing
and I can't think of another

1284
01:11:55,400 --> 01:12:00,920
one, but I dare not say that it.
Right until we've done the.

1285
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,920
Research, right?
Yeah, but it.

1286
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,680
Returned to Oz must be after
this, correct?

1287
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,640
It was later.
I've never seen OK cuz that

1288
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:11,120
would be a longer one that would
jump up.

1289
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:15,840
Absolutely mortified me as a
kid.

1290
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,960
Yeah, that's one of the absolute
kinder trauma movies.

1291
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:20,520
It's a.
Yeah, it's a Gen.

1292
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:23,080
X millennial fever dream, like.
Yeah.

1293
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:26,920
Like that it or like 2 of the
tent poles for that generation

1294
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:28,960
of things that freaked them the
fuck out as kids.

1295
01:12:29,280 --> 01:12:34,080
Yeah, I was a little too old to
be freaked out by it, but return

1296
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,080
to Oz.
Poltergeist 2?

1297
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:40,000
Absolutely.
Just Star Trek 2?

1298
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,080
Absolutely.
Star Trek 2.

1299
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:44,800
Messed me up.
When I was young and saw them

1300
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,800
too young so because in the
Black Cauldron that was another

1301
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:50,000
one with.
Disney.

1302
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,320
Disney's like, hey, let's put
out this creepy fantasy movie

1303
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:56,200
with a Witch King, you know?
I mean, it's like, OK.

1304
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,040
Kids all over America just
terrified.

1305
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:03,040
Absolutely.
I mean, that was a wild time.

1306
01:13:03,440 --> 01:13:06,040
We're kids just made of tougher
stuff back then.

1307
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,000
I can't imagine a studio
releasing a movie now that would

1308
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:13,680
try to like, traumatize kids
like that.

1309
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,360
I know, I mean, it's, it's wild
because I, I did a piece on this

1310
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:21,520
too, because I mean like even
Ghostbusters and Gremlins.

1311
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,040
Had some.
They were PG ES and they had

1312
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,400
these like really scary elements
to them.

1313
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,400
So, and that's The thing is
these were all PG movies.

1314
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,400
Maybe a better question, Were
parents made of tougher stuff?

1315
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:38,240
I, well, I think parents didn't
care as much.

1316
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:40,880
They were kind of ignorant in a
lot of ways.

1317
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,440
But also I think there was this
magical thing that Hollywood

1318
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:48,240
executives had that kind of gave
them the, the, the cojones to

1319
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:49,680
put this stuff out.
And I can't.

1320
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:51,680
Let me just check my notes here.
I think it was called cocaine.

1321
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:53,080
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

1322
01:13:54,120 --> 01:13:55,840
You beat me to my punchline,
Mike.

1323
01:13:55,840 --> 01:13:58,160
Yeah, damn.
You beat me to my fucking

1324
01:13:58,160 --> 01:13:59,440
punchline.
How dare you?

1325
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,640
My.
Goodness, I am so sorry I did

1326
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:02,880
not.
Yeah, that's hilarious.

1327
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:04,240
I thought you were going to go
somewhere.

1328
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:04,880
Else.
Rules.

1329
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:08,200
No, no.
I was 100% landing on cocaine.

1330
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:10,360
Where else am I going to land?
Mike, come on.

1331
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:18,280
I apologize.
Holland and Franklin were

1332
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:23,240
rewarded for their dairy not
with cocaine, but with a maybe.

1333
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:25,920
Cocaine.
Maybe cocaine, I don't know,

1334
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,760
Like we didn't talk about that
in the book at least like last

1335
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:30,200
we have.
To assume there was probably a

1336
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:33,160
little bit of cocaine.
Last chapter of the making of

1337
01:14:33,160 --> 01:14:38,720
book is like we got so fucked
out of our Gordon Coke after I.

1338
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:42,240
Love the Danny DeVito story.
I love this.

1339
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:43,920
The Danny DeVito story.
When he and Arnold

1340
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:46,880
Schwarzenegger go to a party and
they have their last name

1341
01:14:46,880 --> 01:14:49,920
spelled out in cocaine on the
tables and I'm still like,

1342
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:52,280
Danny, look how much I have.
Yeah.

1343
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:56,600
Dear God.
It's such a funny story and

1344
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:58,480
Danny's like, why don't?
Why is this all I get?

1345
01:14:58,480 --> 01:15:05,560
Like come on, don't be cheap.
I would think that if DeVito did

1346
01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:08,640
all of the coke that Arnold he
might die like he wouldn't be.

1347
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:12,720
Right.
The 80s all right.

1348
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:15,840
The Why do we look back on you?
Fondly.

1349
01:15:16,120 --> 01:15:20,400
Released June 3rd, 1983 / 1000
Screens.

1350
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,120
It comes in second at the box
office for the weekend behind a

1351
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:26,200
little movie called Return of
the Jedi.

1352
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:28,760
Not sure if you guys heard.
Of that, I don't know what that

1353
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:32,920
is about, yeah.
It makes about 8 million over

1354
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,800
its first three days, which
basically double S and almost

1355
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:41,120
triples the production cost.
And it's just shy of like $35

1356
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:45,960
million domestically, which is,
again, not bad for a movie that

1357
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,200
Universal wanted and dump.
Like straight to cable

1358
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:52,640
television.
I think like Holland writes

1359
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,240
about the marketing campaign
where he's like, nobody knew how

1360
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:58,680
to market this movie.
It has a great tagline that

1361
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:02,920
Franklin took authorship of
saying it's 22 years later and

1362
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:05,360
Norman Bates has come home.
And like, that's that's all you

1363
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:06,760
need.
Like that's the hook that and

1364
01:16:06,760 --> 01:16:10,960
the the one sheet of Norman and
silhouette against the house on

1365
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,120
the poster.
It's like, boom, there you go.

1366
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:15,560
And they are.
Struggling.

1367
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:18,080
Very evocative of Halloween.
Yep.

1368
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,120
Yeah, which we'll talk about the
Halloween comparisons here.

1369
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:25,400
Oh, I should have mentioned they
did want at one point they

1370
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:30,320
wanted Jamie Lee Curtis to play
the role of Meg as well.

1371
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,840
And she was like, no, thank you,
I do not want to like that would

1372
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:37,120
have been.
At that point she was kind of, I

1373
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:38,680
think that's the same year as
Trading Places.

1374
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:41,400
So she would have been like
leaving the scream Queen persona

1375
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:43,480
behind for good at that point.
Yeah, but I.

1376
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:46,760
I.
Could foresee her careers going

1377
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:47,680
up.
In Scream.

1378
01:16:48,240 --> 01:16:50,360
Yes.
And did the other thing too that

1379
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,680
they mentioned.
What's that, Brian?

1380
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,880
Tell me.
She didn't show her tits till

1381
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:57,880
she went legit.
There we go anyway.

1382
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:00,080
He did it.
He said the thing.

1383
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,480
Yay.
Yeah.

1384
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,200
All right.
I was quoting a movie.

1385
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:07,400
Everybody remember that.
Thank you.

1386
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,480
Just yeah, Brian, is is not the
filthiest member of our crew.

1387
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:15,840
I'll say this, Brian.
Is our not hardly.

1388
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:19,280
I'm sorry I'm such a prude.
Not a prude, I'm.

1389
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:20,600
Not saying I wouldn't say that
either.

1390
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,760
I haven't been to as many orgies
as you guys, so I mean, I can't

1391
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:26,080
even say orgies, Brian said.
Orgies.

1392
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:27,920
It's like.
Trying you have been to.

1393
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,120
Let me tell you something.
Look at me.

1394
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,600
Look at me right now, Brian,
lock in.

1395
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:33,960
You've been to exactly as many
orgies as I have.

1396
01:17:34,280 --> 01:17:36,080
Excellent.
And it's been, I just want to

1397
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,640
say it's been many, many decades
since for me, so.

1398
01:17:40,480 --> 01:17:42,520
Just to clear the.
Air, just to clear up.

1399
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:45,560
Nobody, I said.
However, that could all change

1400
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,720
if you pay us $8 a month at
patreon.com slash on the

1401
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:52,840
pendulum.
Like I said during our Eyes Wide

1402
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:56,000
Shut episode, the people you
want to go are never the people

1403
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,560
that go.
And I include, I include myself

1404
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:00,360
in that.
Mix.

1405
01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:05,560
That is a line directly from our
Eyes Wide Shut episode.

1406
01:18:06,160 --> 01:18:10,040
Imagine me in an orgy playing
the Robert Loggia commercial.

1407
01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:14,120
I'm Dennis Strong's in the
corner with the plate of

1408
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:16,400
sausage.
Let me get in the mood.

1409
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:20,560
And then over and over, just
hitting the George C Scott man

1410
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:25,560
smash.
Admiral Akbar would indeed be

1411
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:27,360
there.
That's right, absolutely.

1412
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:33,760
It absolutely is a trap.
Oh.

1413
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,880
God.
Where do we want?

1414
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:40,800
First trap, hey?
Hey, where do we want to go?

1415
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,360
Let's talk about this.
I don't know my.

1416
01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,240
God, yeah.
At this point, where do we

1417
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,640
start?
The orgy scene, Yes.

1418
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,960
No, there's no orgy scene.
I mean, let's start at the

1419
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,720
beginning with the the opening,
the basically the Friday the

1420
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:02,280
13th style previously on Psycho.
Yeah, just replaying a scene

1421
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:04,360
from the first movie and being
like, hey, you guys remember

1422
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,400
this, Remember this better movie
that we're making a sequel to.

1423
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,960
Buckle up guys.
It is a little interesting that

1424
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:12,320
they start with the shower
scene.

1425
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,000
It almost feels like Universal
said, Okay, we gotta start with

1426
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,280
this.
So shower scene and the house

1427
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:21,080
and switch to color.
I do like the switch to color.

1428
01:19:21,480 --> 01:19:24,160
I think that is a that is a cool
effect.

1429
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:28,040
I think it works really well and
it's just like denotes the

1430
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:33,120
passage of time, you know, if
nothing else, I mean, it's and

1431
01:19:33,120 --> 01:19:36,680
it's a really cool shot.
I mean, it's a great evocation

1432
01:19:36,680 --> 01:19:39,720
of the original without being an
exact copy of it.

1433
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:43,560
Right.
What?

1434
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,320
Are we making credits?
Of Norman being let go, like

1435
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:51,640
being found not guilty.
Like famously like Ed, Ed Gein

1436
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:55,360
was considered not guilty by
reason of insanity, which is a

1437
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,880
very difficult plea.
Like I think you see it work in

1438
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:02,880
movies with a far higher success
rate than it does.

1439
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:07,560
Like it's a very difficult thing
to prove this, but it speaks.

1440
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:09,840
Literally just watched a movie
about that last week.

1441
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,120
I watched Friedkin's.
I watched Friedkin's rampage.

1442
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:16,320
That's AI would say one of one
of Friedkin's.

1443
01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:19,720
It's impossible to find, like
you can't find it anywhere.

1444
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:25,680
It was just it was just released
by Kino Lorber on 4K.

1445
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:29,200
OK, buying that because I need
to watch that in better quality

1446
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:32,240
than I did because I had to dig
to find that one and it was a

1447
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,080
really shitty transfer.
So I'll I'll have to check that

1448
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,320
out.
Yeah, but it is largely about

1449
01:20:37,320 --> 01:20:40,600
the insanity plea.
And in fact, like the insanity

1450
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:42,840
plea is too easy.
We don't want this guy to get

1451
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,160
off for reason of insanity, you
know?

1452
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:47,000
Right.
It's so it's it, that's what

1453
01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:49,600
it's going for.
And so, yeah, the movies would

1454
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:52,320
lead us to believe that that's
the way that all juries are

1455
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,120
going to go.
So.

1456
01:20:55,960 --> 01:20:56,760
It's an.
Seriously.

1457
01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:59,280
The reality?
It's an interesting dilemma in

1458
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:04,600
this movie because like you,
Vera Fields as Lila here, you do

1459
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:08,520
feel for her, like she's lost
her sister, like she's never

1460
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,000
going to get her back.
And it feels like no one's at

1461
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:16,600
least even listening to her or
entertaining the idea of like

1462
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:18,600
putting the brakes on this
thing.

1463
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:21,800
And it's a bit accompli, as a
matter of fact.

1464
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:25,880
Like she, I mean, she's
chastised by the judge in the

1465
01:21:25,880 --> 01:21:29,840
case for overstepping her bounds
and interrupting the

1466
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,680
proceedings.
But on the other hand, like if

1467
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:36,840
Norman was really like out of
his mental capacity, if he was

1468
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:41,800
really, you know, not able to
like understand or comprehend

1469
01:21:42,080 --> 01:21:46,800
his actions and he's received
proper care and treatment for 22

1470
01:21:46,800 --> 01:21:49,360
years.
Like do we believe in the idea

1471
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:53,720
of like rehabilitation in that?
So like, I, I think it's an

1472
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:57,800
interesting and it's not
necessarily explored with a lot

1473
01:21:57,800 --> 01:21:59,640
of depth.
It's more of like this is the

1474
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,320
inciting incident, but it's an
interesting concept to explore.

1475
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:05,800
Yeah, and go ahead, Steven.
Oh.

1476
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,280
No, I was just gonna say, yeah,
no, I I think it's very

1477
01:22:08,280 --> 01:22:10,880
interesting, but the movie
doesn't seem all that interested

1478
01:22:11,080 --> 01:22:14,280
in it.
Like it, it's like this is what

1479
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,920
needs to happen so the rest of
the movie can happen.

1480
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,080
And so we kind of put it into
play.

1481
01:22:19,080 --> 01:22:22,080
But I mean, you could build an
entire movie just around that

1482
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:26,360
question, and probably a very
effective one as well that, you

1483
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,840
know, I, I, I I was about to say
it would be very interesting to

1484
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,560
see this movie from that
character's perspective.

1485
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:35,560
But given what that character
does later in the movie, right?

1486
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:40,560
Maybe not, maybe not, but yeah.
Where do your sympathies lie

1487
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:43,560
this early in the film?
Like as you see these two

1488
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:47,440
arguments made.
The interesting thing for me is

1489
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:51,440
at one point I paused the movie.
It was shortly after Lila goes

1490
01:22:51,440 --> 01:22:54,040
to the to the police station to
yell at the sheriff.

1491
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:57,600
I paused the movie to like get
up, get a drink, and I said to

1492
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:01,520
my partner, it's kind of amazing
how she's right.

1493
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:04,840
Like she's got a point, but no
one's listening to it and she

1494
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:06,680
just come.
Everyone's just treating her

1495
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,640
like a shrill bitch.
And it reminded me of like the

1496
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:12,040
the Skylar White thing from
Breaking Bad where it was like

1497
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:15,280
that she sucks and she's the
she's the only character that's

1498
01:23:15,280 --> 01:23:16,800
acting rationally in the entire
fucking.

1499
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:18,240
Exactly.
Right.

1500
01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:21,200
And I'm just and then I'm and so
and then I plus play and then

1501
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:23,920
like the twist happens like 10
minutes later and I'm like, Oh

1502
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:26,800
no, she's she is a shrill bitch.
OK, OK, OK.

1503
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:31,040
Like, but I'm just like, it was
kind of weird how like that in

1504
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:35,560
that thing, that twist kind of
recontextualizes the first half.

1505
01:23:35,560 --> 01:23:38,560
But no, in the first half of the
film, I'm kind of right there

1506
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:40,520
with her.
I'm like, yeah, this makes a lot

1507
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,560
of sense.
You are absolutely correct to be

1508
01:23:42,560 --> 01:23:46,840
suspicious of this man given
what has happened to your entire

1509
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,880
family.
That makes a lot of sense to me.

1510
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:52,280
Like you were kind of thrust
into the middle of this thing

1511
01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:55,880
that happened is obviously very
tragic and very traumatic for

1512
01:23:55,880 --> 01:23:58,120
you.
And then the man who killed your

1513
01:23:58,120 --> 01:24:02,600
family is being set free and no
one is listening to your very

1514
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:07,520
reasonable and rational issues
with that thing happening.

1515
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,840
Everyone is dismissing you as a
shrill badge and then surprise,

1516
01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:12,400
you are a shrill bitch.
And I'm just kind of OK.

1517
01:24:12,440 --> 01:24:15,360
All sympathy gone at that point.
Like, the writers don't want you

1518
01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,080
to really take her side.
So I think they write her that

1519
01:24:18,080 --> 01:24:20,280
way.
And then so it's maybe less of a

1520
01:24:20,480 --> 01:24:25,080
of a blow when she does end up
being, you know, the shrill

1521
01:24:25,080 --> 01:24:27,920
bitch.
I think my sympathies pretty

1522
01:24:27,920 --> 01:24:30,200
much go to Norman right away in
this one.

1523
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:33,240
I don't know that I've ever
thought about it, though.

1524
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:35,480
Why?
It's just kind of, you know,

1525
01:24:35,480 --> 01:24:37,560
he's Anthony Perkins and he's
mild.

1526
01:24:37,560 --> 01:24:40,080
He's the hero of the movie.
He's no longer, you know,

1527
01:24:40,120 --> 01:24:44,800
speaking in his mother's voice
and he's he's just, he's

1528
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:49,400
apparently been at least, you
know, maybe even 20 years that

1529
01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:54,880
he hasn't slipped back into this
other persona.

1530
01:24:55,600 --> 01:25:01,120
And so but you know, like the
doctor says at the end of the

1531
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:03,200
first movie, he's never all
Norman.

1532
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,360
I think that is true.
And you have always have that

1533
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:09,680
sense of awkwardness with and
that's part of, you know,

1534
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:14,480
Perkins portrayal of of Norman
is very nuanced and you know.

1535
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:16,920
He's a great actor.
Yeah.

1536
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,480
And and so I think there's I
think that there's a lot of

1537
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:24,280
empathy that he is able to
project right away from that

1538
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:27,680
character.
And so I find myself almost

1539
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:32,040
immediately just jumping to
Norman's side at the beginning

1540
01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:33,360
of this movie.
So.

1541
01:25:34,040 --> 01:25:37,480
I don't think the writers want
you to side with Lila, to be

1542
01:25:37,480 --> 01:25:40,440
clear, like they want you to be
on Norman's side.

1543
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:42,520
But it's just bringing up the
question.

1544
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:45,120
I think it's very it's, it's an
interesting thing to consider.

1545
01:25:45,120 --> 01:25:47,600
Yeah, One thing I was thinking
about, like the re watching

1546
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:51,120
this, I watch it like a few
times ahead of recording, just

1547
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:54,400
like tend to do that is it's a
little bit further ahead.

1548
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:58,040
Like when Norman is sitting at
the table with Mary and he's

1549
01:25:58,040 --> 01:25:59,600
like, do you know why I was
locked up?

1550
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:03,640
You I was locked up because when
I was a boy I poisoned my

1551
01:26:03,640 --> 01:26:06,400
mother.
And what I don't hear Norman in

1552
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:11,120
that moment say is he doesn't
talk about how I also, you know,

1553
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:13,960
murdered a woman that stayed at
my hotel.

1554
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:17,960
And I don't I murdered the man
who was investigating her

1555
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:21,760
disappearance.
Like, he never mentions Marian

1556
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:26,000
Crane or Arbor Gas at all.
He solely focused on the murder

1557
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:27,360
of his mother, right?
And.

1558
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:29,640
Or the two other missing girls.
Before that, two other.

1559
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,840
Mr. mentioned, I think.
She says there's like 7 total.

1560
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:36,800
Yep, which I can only do 6 in my
head so there's one.

1561
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:41,440
It's the mother, her lover, the
2 missing girls, Arbogast,

1562
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:47,000
Marian Crane and I don't know
who the 7th would be so maybe

1563
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:47,840
her I.
Mean they did.

1564
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:49,760
Maybe they did drag this?
Wrong person.

1565
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:50,280
True.
Right.

1566
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:54,680
Yeah.
No, I work in this field and I

1567
01:26:55,040 --> 01:26:57,960
nothing to this extreme.
Like, I don't work as as an

1568
01:26:57,960 --> 01:27:01,720
inpatient coordinator or
inpatient clinician, but I work

1569
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:05,400
with people that, you know, have
been fairly traumatized by

1570
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,400
things that have happened to
them in life.

1571
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,520
You know, there's the adage like
hurt people hurt people.

1572
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:14,840
Like these persons have gone on
to do great damage to like

1573
01:27:14,840 --> 01:27:19,160
relationships in their life have
hurt other people.

1574
01:27:19,160 --> 01:27:23,560
And you know, one thing is like,
you're responsible for your

1575
01:27:23,560 --> 01:27:27,200
actions no matter what.
Like if you're harmed in some

1576
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,480
way, like you need to take some
accountability.

1577
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,560
And there's not much like Norman
can do to kind of repair the

1578
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:36,440
damage that's been done from the
events of the first movie.

1579
01:27:36,440 --> 01:27:40,640
But there's that lack of
accountability saying like, I

1580
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:43,840
almost like he's still saying
like, well, it was my mother and

1581
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,720
not him.
And I said this on the first

1582
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:50,880
Psycho episode.
We don't know anything about

1583
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,200
Norma Bates and how she treated
Norman, right?

1584
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,280
Everything is from his
perspective.

1585
01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:58,360
I've always kind of even
wondered if her name was

1586
01:27:58,360 --> 01:28:02,320
actually Norma.
Think it is because other people

1587
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:04,720
in the town.
Say other people refer to her

1588
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:07,560
that as that.
What a weird thing to name your

1589
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:12,560
kid Norman if your name is
Norma, you know, so So if there

1590
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:16,200
hadn't been those sort of
exterior comments about her

1591
01:28:16,200 --> 01:28:19,640
first name, I kind of because
there's not in the first movie.

1592
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,440
There's only him coming in and
screaming.

1593
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,000
I'm Norma Bates.
Yeah.

1594
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:29,720
And, and so that that's one of
those things that I if you just

1595
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:33,360
had the first movie where I
would wonder if that was even

1596
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:37,320
her name, because everything we
know about his mother is from

1597
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:41,160
his perspective, so.
Maybe not this episode, but

1598
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:45,400
maybe like we do Psycho 3, I
kind of want to ask, did Psycho

1599
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,080
ruin the name Norman?
Potentially.

1600
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:51,640
And I'm not joking.
I'm actually like, is it one of

1601
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:56,680
those names now that like he was
so associated with the character

1602
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:01,040
that like you don't see a lot of
Normans that are out there at

1603
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:02,960
this point?
To be to be fair, you don't

1604
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:04,400
really see a lot of Freddies
either.

1605
01:29:06,480 --> 01:29:08,200
That's true.
Interesting.

1606
01:29:08,440 --> 01:29:11,440
Or a lot of pin heads, which I
don't know anything.

1607
01:29:11,440 --> 01:29:12,920
Yeah.
That is a name that is

1608
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:14,600
tragically dropped off.
I agree.

1609
01:29:14,720 --> 01:29:18,200
Leatherface, a certain name that
has been lost in the sands of

1610
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:19,320
time.
No, you're right.

1611
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:22,200
Like Freddie is not.
But Jason still fairly.

1612
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:25,240
Jason and Michael both fairly.
Popular, very popular names, I

1613
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:30,400
think like why this works and
why my sympathy is like

1614
01:29:30,640 --> 01:29:34,760
subconsciously drawn immediately
to Norman.

1615
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:38,000
It's not just because he's our
point of view character, because

1616
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,360
you can have a point of view
character and be like, Nope,

1617
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:43,320
this person just makes me.
I don't trust them.

1618
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:48,760
I think you trust Norman
implicitly watching his journey

1619
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:52,760
here, and it's because of
Anthony Perkins portrayal.

1620
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:56,320
It really hasn't lost a beat
like a lot of those.

1621
01:29:56,320 --> 01:29:59,600
And the other thing is like he's
still fairly young, like he's in

1622
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:03,240
his 40s when he films this.
But it looked like the year,

1623
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:07,440
like it was a little bit of a
weathered 22 years and Perkins

1624
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:10,440
went through.
Like you see, he's aged in the

1625
01:30:10,440 --> 01:30:12,720
22 years in between movies.
Yeah.

1626
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:14,440
He's lived a whole life.
For sure.

1627
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:18,280
So thin.
And he's, yeah, he's, he's just

1628
01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:22,680
got, yeah, that look of lived
life for sure, which also does

1629
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,000
add to the performance, yeah.
You know.

1630
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:29,400
Perkins is no I, I think his,
his performance is heads and

1631
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:33,080
shoulders, the thing that makes
this movie as good as it is.

1632
01:30:33,800 --> 01:30:38,600
He's so, so incredible.
I think because he got so

1633
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:41,320
pigeonholed into this role and
so associated with this role,

1634
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:45,960
it's easy for us to forget how
good an actor he is and how

1635
01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:51,600
effective he is at the nuance
and just being able to carry

1636
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:55,000
those emotions in just the
slightest movements of his face

1637
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:57,960
or the slightest little waiver
of his voice.

1638
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:01,760
And there seems to be a great
deal of intentionality, like

1639
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:03,600
he's like, if I'm going to come
back to this character, I'm

1640
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:05,960
going to do it right.
And he does to his grand.

1641
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:09,480
He really brings it.
If this movie could have been so

1642
01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,200
abysmal had they not, had they
had to go with someone else, had

1643
01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:18,000
Perkins actually said no,
because I don't think anyone

1644
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:21,880
else would have done, would have
taken it as seriously as he

1645
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,000
takes it here.
Even someone as sorried as

1646
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:27,400
Christopher Walken, frankly.
I think that's probably the

1647
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:31,800
biggest weak point in Three is
Anthony Perkins is distracted by

1648
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:34,280
directing the movie, so his
performance isn't as strong,

1649
01:31:34,480 --> 01:31:37,040
especially at the beginning.
About halfway through, I feel

1650
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:41,960
like he settles into it again,
but the first, first part of it

1651
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:45,000
is a little bit rough.
But this performance is probably

1652
01:31:45,040 --> 01:31:49,200
very nearly, if not as good as
the one in the original.

1653
01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:53,240
It's just he really understands,
like we said, those those

1654
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:57,640
nuances of, of what's going on
inside of Norman's head.

1655
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,120
And I think that's why
Hitchcock, you know, cast him in

1656
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:03,720
the 1st place because he's just,
there's something about him that

1657
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,000
is a little bit like he's
wearing a mask.

1658
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:06,840
Yep.
Yeah.

1659
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:08,760
You know, well, like he's hiding
things.

1660
01:32:08,760 --> 01:32:10,480
And obviously he was.
Right.

1661
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:12,960
Living as a closeted man in
Hollywood, obviously hiding

1662
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:14,360
things.
Yeah, yeah.

1663
01:32:14,360 --> 01:32:18,240
Perkins friends and lovers like
do talk about that about him a

1664
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:21,480
bit when they talked about
Anthony Perkins, this idea that

1665
01:32:21,480 --> 01:32:25,080
like Perkins like did present
himself as like an aw shucks,

1666
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:28,520
like hands in his pocket, not
quite knowing how to act like a

1667
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,560
little bit of like socially
awkward, but in an endearing

1668
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:34,760
way, not in a you're going to
eat your face way.

1669
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,360
And his friends would say like
some of that was an act like he

1670
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:43,880
knew that he could he could
garner sympathy for himself in

1671
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:45,960
in that way.
And there's a little bit of like

1672
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:50,600
of a show that's put on there in
that portrayal of like, and some

1673
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:54,400
of his his partners would say
like, they don't know if Anthony

1674
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,080
Perkins like knew who he really
was as well.

1675
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:00,400
Like he was always trying to
find some identity.

1676
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:02,760
And I think you, I think you see
that here.

1677
01:33:02,760 --> 01:33:06,160
I think like this is a Norman,
like half of his life has been

1678
01:33:06,160 --> 01:33:12,840
spent behind bars trying to get
himself out from under this

1679
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:16,520
persona that he had developed
out of guilt.

1680
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:22,120
Yeah, absolutely.
And so, yeah, that that I think

1681
01:33:22,160 --> 01:33:25,920
uniquely makes him a unique
individual with regard to the

1682
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:30,720
role and the character.
And he and again, it it, it kind

1683
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:34,400
of sucks that he got so
associated here because he's

1684
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:36,880
capable of so much more than
just this.

1685
01:33:37,240 --> 01:33:39,040
But this is all.
And it was, you know, do the

1686
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:40,920
thing, say the thing.
This is all.

1687
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:42,440
And and that's kind of what
Hollywood does.

1688
01:33:42,440 --> 01:33:44,240
Like you, they find a thing
you're very good at and then

1689
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:47,360
they make you do it till you're
90, to quote Ryan Reynolds.

1690
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:52,680
And and he was so much bigger.
I mean, it's why Mark Hamill

1691
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:54,040
went to Broadway for so many
years.

1692
01:33:54,040 --> 01:33:56,680
He's like, I don't want to keep
playing you, Luke Skywalker,

1693
01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:59,480
until I'm 70.
And then he ended up playing him

1694
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:01,440
when he was 70.
But it's neither here nor there,

1695
01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:03,760
I suppose.
Well, it's interesting that, you

1696
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:07,680
know, I mean, to break the
typecast is real challenging for

1697
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:09,760
a lot of people.
Mark Hamill has had kind of an

1698
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:13,600
interesting, you know, sort of
third act here where he's in,

1699
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:18,480
you know, I mean, he's in life
of Chuck and he's in long, long

1700
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:21,920
playing, playing really, really
different characters than Luke

1701
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:24,480
Skywalker.
And he wrote the House of Usher.

1702
01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:28,440
He's great villain.
So it's and I think and and

1703
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:31,800
that's why I, I also just
encourage people to check out

1704
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:35,720
Perkins other stuff because he
really did have a great range

1705
01:34:36,080 --> 01:34:38,160
and some really interesting
roles he played.

1706
01:34:38,760 --> 01:34:41,880
But I mean, I think the one, I
think we also understand why

1707
01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:47,040
this one has lived on is because
it's so he's just so damn good

1708
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:49,960
in this role.
I mean, I think we may have a

1709
01:34:49,960 --> 01:34:53,800
project somewhere down the road
in the near future to look at

1710
01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:56,480
some of Perkins other work as
well and we'll.

1711
01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:58,560
Put that in there.
I think that would be fantastic.

1712
01:35:00,040 --> 01:35:03,480
The other thing that stood out
to me as well in the early parts

1713
01:35:03,480 --> 01:35:08,800
of the film is how there is no
social safety net for Norman as

1714
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:11,320
well.
Like his Doctor Raymond drives

1715
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:15,560
him home, drops him off, says
phone is hooked up, call me if

1716
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:17,360
you need me.
And like, Doctor Raymond is like

1717
01:35:17,640 --> 01:35:21,440
literally all the support that
Norman's going to get.

1718
01:35:21,440 --> 01:35:25,440
Like there's no one a like to
immediately release him and just

1719
01:35:25,440 --> 01:35:29,400
send him to his old home where
all this trauma has happened to

1720
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:31,880
him, right?
And I get it.

1721
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:33,960
It's a movie.
Like I understand that.

1722
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:38,560
But it does like stand out that
he's not in a halfway house

1723
01:35:38,840 --> 01:35:41,920
getting like proper supervision,
getting clinical care.

1724
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:46,160
And there doesn't seem to be any
follow up visits that are like

1725
01:35:46,160 --> 01:35:49,440
scheduled on the regular.
There's like no team around him.

1726
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,560
It's like, oh, and by the way,
you're going to go out and work

1727
01:35:52,680 --> 01:35:55,640
this fairly public facing job as
well.

1728
01:35:55,640 --> 01:35:58,000
Like you're going to be out
where all the townspeople, like

1729
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:01,880
the one diner in town.
In the town that all this shit

1730
01:36:01,880 --> 01:36:04,480
happened and not like 2 towns
over where no one knows who you

1731
01:36:04,480 --> 01:36:07,880
are like this is.
Probably the diner that Norman

1732
01:36:07,880 --> 01:36:11,360
recommend Marion goes to.
When?

1733
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:15,600
She said she was hungry, and he
was like, oh, that's a diner.

1734
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:17,880
Like right down the road,
probably that diner where

1735
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:22,200
everyone gathers and it's like
the Cheers Bar of Fairvale.

1736
01:36:22,200 --> 01:36:25,280
It's like everyone knows
everyone's name in this town.

1737
01:36:25,560 --> 01:36:29,600
Everyone's familiar with it.
The town sheriff is like, yeah,

1738
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:32,440
I was on the force 22 years ago
when this occurred.

1739
01:36:32,440 --> 01:36:37,240
Like, even though like a whole
generation has come and gone,

1740
01:36:37,560 --> 01:36:42,360
everyone is still intimately
familiar with, like, what has

1741
01:36:42,360 --> 01:36:47,160
taken place at the motel and at
the Bates home and like to go

1742
01:36:47,160 --> 01:36:48,360
home to that.
Like it.

1743
01:36:48,360 --> 01:36:51,800
You can't blame him for being
off kilter.

1744
01:36:52,640 --> 01:36:56,280
Yeah, And you know, when people
are like, oh, so you're Norman.

1745
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:00,040
They all know who he is, and
they all know you know

1746
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:03,280
ostensibly what he did.
It's the Michael Myers thing.

1747
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:06,400
Like he's he's basically become
a an urban legend around the

1748
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:14,320
town, like a local folk figure.
Yeah, I do love like the

1749
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:18,640
especially these early scenes
with Meg Tilly and Anthony

1750
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:23,360
Perkins as well, where he
convinces her and I'll put

1751
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:27,280
convinces and quotes to come
back to the home with her with

1752
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:30,280
him.
And it's alternately like,

1753
01:37:30,280 --> 01:37:37,040
charming but also a little bit
sinister in his persistence

1754
01:37:37,600 --> 01:37:41,880
because you know his history.
And even without that, like

1755
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:47,920
watching it in 2026 terms, like
his insistence that she come

1756
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:51,560
home with him and him trying to
convince her to like stay

1757
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:55,720
despite her multiple times, like
saying that she doesn't want to.

1758
01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,720
But you get down to that the
discussion around the table with

1759
01:37:59,720 --> 01:38:01,480
them, like there's a sweetness
to it.

1760
01:38:01,480 --> 01:38:06,240
And it gives you some nice like,
visual insight as well to like

1761
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:07,840
the struggles he's going
through.

1762
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:12,840
And there's a certain amount, of
course, we know because of what

1763
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:15,680
happens later in the movie.
There's play acting going on.

1764
01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:20,400
She has to resist a certain
amount and make it seem real and

1765
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:23,280
all of that.
But there's this, I think this

1766
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,760
is starting to play up.
But the sinister angle that you

1767
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,560
were discussing, Mike, I think
is playing up.

1768
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:30,240
The question for the audience
is, is he relapsing?

1769
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:33,280
Is he slipping back?
And I think we were talking

1770
01:38:33,280 --> 01:38:36,320
earlier about the not
recognizing the murders that he

1771
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:37,560
committed.
Oh, the reason I was locked up

1772
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:39,160
is because I poisoned my
mother's tea.

1773
01:38:39,160 --> 01:38:42,920
That I think plays into that
sinister nature as well because

1774
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:46,320
he's he's only revealing part of
it to her.

1775
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:49,080
And so it feels like he's
intentionally keeping something

1776
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:53,360
back in order to, again, kind of
lull her into a false sense of

1777
01:38:53,360 --> 01:38:55,560
security.
And so I think that's definitely

1778
01:38:55,560 --> 01:38:57,760
part of the trick the writers
are playing on the audience to

1779
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:02,160
try to get us to maybe start to
question whether or not Norman

1780
01:39:02,160 --> 01:39:05,640
is in fact healed, for lack of a
better term.

1781
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:10,320
And they're a little, you know,
throwbacks or, you know, Easter

1782
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,080
eggs, I guess, from the first
movie in that sense.

1783
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:17,960
Kind of serves the same meal to
her, except it's in the kitchen

1784
01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:22,080
instead of in the parlor.
And the milk and using the big

1785
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:24,440
knife to cut them.
Heat the.

1786
01:39:24,440 --> 01:39:27,160
Sandwich and have.
He still can't say bathroom and

1787
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:28,840
I think that was a nice.
Can't say bathroom.

1788
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:32,800
A nice little call back and my
question for you both was can he

1789
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:37,800
not say bathroom because there's
something lurid about it or can

1790
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:42,760
he not say that because like
that is where his crimes took

1791
01:39:42,760 --> 01:39:44,720
place?
Like, you know, it's, it's

1792
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:49,120
hinted at in the first psycho.
Like he pauses before he gives

1793
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:53,520
Marian room key #1 because
that's the, I would say that's

1794
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,040
the killing room.
Is that because there's like

1795
01:39:56,040 --> 01:40:00,440
that residual trauma, that
residual memory of like this is

1796
01:40:00,440 --> 01:40:06,040
where the bad things happen?
Or is it just bathrooms are so

1797
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:09,040
private?
I think it's his mother, you

1798
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:12,440
know, I mean, it's probably
going back to the Freudian stuff

1799
01:40:12,440 --> 01:40:15,760
of, you know, Stefano from the
first script.

1800
01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:19,720
It's it's just like, you know,
that's where you know, poop is

1801
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:23,080
and that's where, you know,
nakedness is and that's where,

1802
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:25,680
you know, all of these Freudian
things are.

1803
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:32,400
And so his mother, I imagine
there's still just trauma of the

1804
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:34,960
naughty boy.
You know, that's that's where

1805
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:38,960
you have private stuff and I'm
sure that you do naughty things

1806
01:40:38,960 --> 01:40:41,360
in there.
That's at least what Norman

1807
01:40:41,360 --> 01:40:44,240
thinks his mother thought of it
all.

1808
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:47,840
And so he still has that
lingering in him.

1809
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:50,760
And I don't know if that would
ever go away because I mean,

1810
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:56,880
psychophor, I mean, is going to
show its hand as to what Norma

1811
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:00,640
was really like, but which is
probably too much.

1812
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:04,520
But our perception at least is
that Norman has been abused by

1813
01:41:04,520 --> 01:41:11,200
this woman for many, many years.
And so I think that it's I think

1814
01:41:11,200 --> 01:41:13,200
it's all linked to that.
I think it's all linked to

1815
01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:17,840
childhood trauma that he can't
say things like bathroom or

1816
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:21,160
even, you know, referring to
beds and stuff like that.

1817
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:26,360
I mean, I think he has just a
lot of all of that just pent up.

1818
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:30,800
And no matter how much
psychological, you know, therapy

1819
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:34,280
and all the stuff he's gone
through, he can't really get

1820
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,600
over that.
It's my perception at least.

1821
01:41:37,120 --> 01:41:39,600
And I mean, I kind of got the
implication that there was

1822
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:44,000
perhaps a kind of a sexual abuse
nature in that relationship as

1823
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,560
well.
Like it seems kind of, if not, I

1824
01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:49,800
mean, it's obviously not overtly
stated, but it feels almost

1825
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:53,560
inherent within the thing.
So I have to wonder if the

1826
01:41:53,560 --> 01:41:56,320
bathroom's not part of that.
Sure.

1827
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:59,480
The note I made, you know, we
get a replay.

1828
01:41:59,600 --> 01:42:01,120
We get another shower scene
here.

1829
01:42:01,120 --> 01:42:03,960
And obviously this one plays out
differently.

1830
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:07,720
But there is the peephole.
Like, there, the peephole is now

1831
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:12,600
like directly peers directly
into the bathroom, not the hotel

1832
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,160
room itself.
And you know, we talked a lot

1833
01:42:15,160 --> 01:42:19,680
last time about how Norman had
kind of carved a hole into the

1834
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:23,680
wall so his face could get as
close to the peephole as

1835
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:25,400
possible.
Like, we knew it wasn't his

1836
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:26,880
first.
We're even doing this a long

1837
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:30,600
time.
The peephole being in Norma's

1838
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:36,920
bedroom I thought was a really
it was a really disturbing idea.

1839
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:40,400
Definitely.
It's in the house it's in.

1840
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:41,760
Guests would not be in the
house.

1841
01:42:41,760 --> 01:42:44,600
Right.
That he would be peeping on his

1842
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:46,160
mother or.
Because it was horrible.

1843
01:42:46,160 --> 01:42:47,720
I thought it was the other way
around.

1844
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:50,480
I.
Or I like Norma was peeping on

1845
01:42:50,480 --> 01:42:52,920
him.
To see The Dirty things he's

1846
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:56,480
doing in there, right?
That's how she knows The Dirty

1847
01:42:56,480 --> 01:42:57,160
thing.
She's doing.

1848
01:42:57,160 --> 01:43:01,640
There you go.
So I don't and that that opened

1849
01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:05,240
up like a lot of like the psyche
of like what's actually going on

1850
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:06,600
here.
But there was just something

1851
01:43:06,600 --> 01:43:09,920
really disturbing about thinking
about because like part of it,

1852
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:14,480
like Norma, it wouldn't shock me
if she just was like literally

1853
01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:17,880
pull up a stool and sit next to
him and watch Norman as he would

1854
01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:20,320
bathe.
But part of her knowing, like

1855
01:43:20,560 --> 01:43:24,800
knowing that's wrong and like
hiding that and repressing that

1856
01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,920
part of herself as well.
And and.

1857
01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:33,440
Then punishing him for her own
guilts and perceptions about

1858
01:43:33,440 --> 01:43:35,520
that.
I haven't watched part 4 yet,

1859
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:39,920
Brian does that play into?
I know that Stefano says he

1860
01:43:39,920 --> 01:43:44,640
ignored 2 and 3.
Yeah, it's been a very long time

1861
01:43:44,640 --> 01:43:48,400
since I've seen 4, but I
remember that there's some, you

1862
01:43:48,400 --> 01:43:52,280
know, sexual elements to it,
like being punished for getting

1863
01:43:52,280 --> 01:43:55,240
an erection at one point.
That's what I that's, I don't

1864
01:43:55,240 --> 01:43:59,120
remember a whole hell of a lot
about it though, so it'll be

1865
01:43:59,120 --> 01:44:02,840
interesting to revisit it.
I mean my perception of cycle 4

1866
01:44:02,840 --> 01:44:04,960
is that maybe reveals too much.
Sure.

1867
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:09,000
You know that that's my sort of
thought, whereas where we're

1868
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:10,560
having conversation rights.
Yeah.

1869
01:44:11,080 --> 01:44:14,120
Right, exactly our conversation
here and about first film,

1870
01:44:14,480 --> 01:44:18,080
there's a lot of like maybe this
is the case, maybe this is the

1871
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:20,520
case.
And when those holes are filled

1872
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:23,000
in, I think it becomes
infinitely less interesting.

1873
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:26,960
So but I mean, we'll we'll see
when when we revisit 4.

1874
01:44:27,040 --> 01:44:29,880
I mean, I, like I said, it's,
it's been so long since I've

1875
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:33,560
seen it that I don't know if I
can speak to it, you know,

1876
01:44:33,560 --> 01:44:36,600
definitively right now.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to

1877
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,840
like pulling that one off the
shelf and watching that for the

1878
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,960
first time.
It's it's a bit of a curiosity,

1879
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:46,760
I think for me more than a one
that I ever really watch very

1880
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:48,240
much.
So.

1881
01:44:48,640 --> 01:44:53,560
It's a weird franchise that you
have, like this one, cultural

1882
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:55,560
touches.
It's it's like one of the most

1883
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:59,840
culturally relevant movies of
the past 75 years in one that

1884
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:02,520
like you still feel it's, I
mean, even in things like

1885
01:45:02,760 --> 01:45:06,120
Seymour Skinner from The
Simpsons is basically like.

1886
01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:07,240
Yeah.
Is Norman.

1887
01:45:07,240 --> 01:45:08,200
He's Norman.
Yeah, right.

1888
01:45:09,480 --> 01:45:11,840
Yeah.
How like that you know, how many

1889
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:15,920
times like you would get like a
reference of like Herman's score

1890
01:45:15,920 --> 01:45:19,080
and the strings and like a
shower scene and like different

1891
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:21,280
pop culture events, so.
It's Wayne's World.

1892
01:45:21,280 --> 01:45:26,920
Yeah, he's stabbing the.
It it's still so relevant today.

1893
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:30,680
And then you get 2, which is
better than it has any right to

1894
01:45:30,680 --> 01:45:33,440
be, but it doesn't have any real
lasting impact.

1895
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:36,920
It's really more of A and we'll
you know, and we'll talk about

1896
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:38,520
it in a minute.
When we talk about two me, it's

1897
01:45:38,520 --> 01:45:40,600
a product if it's time in some
ways.

1898
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:44,640
And three feels like the
contractually obligated 1, like,

1899
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:48,640
well, 2 was a hit, we have to
make three and then 4 is just

1900
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:51,360
dumped on the cable, right?
Yeah.

1901
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,360
And then it gets.
Three really, you know, gets

1902
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:57,760
more of the slasher thing going.
And I think that was studio

1903
01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:00,720
insistence, a lot of it.
There are two, two or three

1904
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:02,960
scenes in that.
That is like, yeah, the studio

1905
01:46:03,480 --> 01:46:06,960
probably demanded this, but you
know, hey, we'll talk about

1906
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:09,000
that.
And then you get a remake about

1907
01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:14,520
six or seven years before
remakes are really a thing,

1908
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:16,400
right?
You know, And you get it from a

1909
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:20,400
director that is like coming at
his like commercial and creative

1910
01:46:20,400 --> 01:46:22,840
peak in dust.
So it's a really interesting.

1911
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:24,640
That's how he cashes his blank
check.

1912
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:25,880
That's wild.
To me.

1913
01:46:26,000 --> 01:46:32,320
Wild to me and to not only to
not only do a remake, but to do

1914
01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:34,160
a shot shot.
Shot.

1915
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:39,000
Remake is and when you're Gus
Van Zandt, I mean a notor in

1916
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:44,280
your own sense, you know, is
very strange and so I'm not sure

1917
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:47,960
I mean that is what I will find
interesting to talk about with

1918
01:46:47,960 --> 01:46:50,200
Psycho remake, to be honest,
it's.

1919
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:52,520
Real.
It's why I'm interested to.

1920
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:55,000
Watch.
So this is like The Exorcist in

1921
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:59,320
terms of yes, except that much
The Heretic falls on its face.

1922
01:46:59,920 --> 01:47:00,840
Right.
Yeah.

1923
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,720
Immediately out of the game.
Yeah, yeah.

1924
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:08,840
OK, so to me the scenes with
Perkins and and France are

1925
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:13,560
fascinating because France is at
11 and is just like.

1926
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,240
Playing it so cool.
Yeah, and you just see the two,

1927
01:47:17,280 --> 01:47:22,880
the contrast between the two and
Perkins like Norman asserting

1928
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:27,080
himself saying like, yeah, I'll
just call the police and and him

1929
01:47:27,080 --> 01:47:29,000
when France is like, well, go
ahead.

1930
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:31,520
You know, like I was hired to
work here.

1931
01:47:31,520 --> 01:47:34,200
He's like by the state.
He's like the state has no hold

1932
01:47:34,200 --> 01:47:36,240
on me at this point, like I'm a
free man.

1933
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:39,240
And him recognizing that in this
calm way.

1934
01:47:39,520 --> 01:47:44,200
But how that carries over, you
can see how the tawdriness of

1935
01:47:44,200 --> 01:47:47,200
what's going on, like the fact
that people are going to the

1936
01:47:47,200 --> 01:47:51,000
hotel now to fuck, that there
are drugs everywhere.

1937
01:47:51,600 --> 01:47:56,600
That like, there's something so
unseemly about this Toomey

1938
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:00,040
character that it really gets
under Norman's skin in a way

1939
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:02,920
that he can't process.
And then when that's thrown in

1940
01:48:02,920 --> 01:48:09,640
his face again the next day, how
hard it is for him to like, keep

1941
01:48:09,640 --> 01:48:12,720
his grip on sanity.
And this kind of idea that it

1942
01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:15,720
was like, it was my mother that
did all these things.

1943
01:48:15,720 --> 01:48:19,120
I slipped into that persona.
Maybe that's just a bunch of

1944
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:21,120
horseshit.
Right.

1945
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:25,480
Well, I think one of my favorite
lines in this movie is when he's

1946
01:48:25,680 --> 01:48:29,840
he says, I think to Robert Lojo,
he says they're they seem to be

1947
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:33,760
turning this into what they call
an adult hotel town.

1948
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:36,720
That that is one of the funniest
lines.

1949
01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:40,960
The way that Perkins delivers
that is is just kind of

1950
01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:43,880
brilliant.
And I just because I mean,

1951
01:48:44,040 --> 01:48:48,320
honestly, what I mean, a motel
like that out in the middle of

1952
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:52,040
nowhere, what else is gonna
happen there in the early 80s?

1953
01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:53,920
I'm sorry.
That is like.

1954
01:48:54,040 --> 01:48:56,040
And Logan's reaction too, is why
house.

1955
01:48:56,440 --> 01:49:00,920
Yeah, place, you know.
Lois like I got a room booked at

1956
01:49:00,920 --> 01:49:03,120
3.
Your mother's right with Billy.

1957
01:49:03,160 --> 01:49:05,600
Mother's right.
Billy's mother, she's going to

1958
01:49:05,600 --> 01:49:08,080
cover me in tangerine orange
juice and.

1959
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:11,560
Lick it off my body.
So, well, I.

1960
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:14,520
Like his Coteous look alike sits
in the cup chair in the corner.

1961
01:49:16,320 --> 01:49:18,960
Again, I don't want to run into
Robert Lozier at the Orchie.

1962
01:49:20,160 --> 01:49:24,320
I like how it like how it plays
into kind of the what becomes

1963
01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:27,600
the slasher trope of the guilty
get punished.

1964
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:31,920
Like the slasher is there to
punish the guilty, but I feel

1965
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:36,440
like, and I don't consider
Norman a slasher per SE, even

1966
01:49:36,440 --> 01:49:40,320
though knives do slash and he
Franz's face does get slashed in

1967
01:49:40,320 --> 01:49:44,240
this movie too.
But the the notion that it is

1968
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:48,480
his sense of morality that is
leading him to to punish the

1969
01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:51,880
wickedness in people, that
becomes a slasher trope for good

1970
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:53,760
or ill.
And I like how that has kind of

1971
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:56,200
evolved and been played with
over the years and the decades

1972
01:49:56,200 --> 01:49:59,640
since Halloween, which is not
something that Carpenter was

1973
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:01,440
going for, but we've talked
about that before.

1974
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:04,720
But but that that that is
Norman's perspective or the

1975
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:07,320
perspective of Norman's mother,
however we want to frame it.

1976
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:10,720
And I, I find that very
interesting that that kind of is

1977
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:14,200
one of the few kind of slasher
slashery elements that kind of

1978
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:19,320
pops up in this in this movie.
I think the movie's at its best

1979
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:23,880
when it does its own thing and
it's not leaning into the slash

1980
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:25,480
of tropes.
And I agree.

1981
01:50:25,840 --> 01:50:28,600
Franklin and Holland talked
about they kind of had to do it

1982
01:50:28,600 --> 01:50:30,680
because it was the time, yeah.
I did.

1983
01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:35,040
Sequence where the kids, that
scene where the kids break into

1984
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:39,920
the basement, the cellar.
Yeah, it feels a little bit

1985
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:42,160
tacked in there.
It's a fun scene though, yeah.

1986
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:44,000
It's a fun scene.
Very Friday the 3rd.

1987
01:50:44,480 --> 01:50:47,800
But it is like you have a pair
of kids that like they break

1988
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:51,880
into a home, roll a joint and
they're getting ready to have

1989
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:55,920
underage like premarital sex.
It's like there's just these

1990
01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:57,840
neons on.
The rolled up mattress that was

1991
01:50:57,840 --> 01:50:59,400
just laying down there.
Who right?

1992
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:03,600
I can't think of any
circumstance you think of like

1993
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:07,360
I'm thinking of Salems Lot and
the Marsters home where the idea

1994
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:10,760
was like kids would break in and
steal a trinket and run out and

1995
01:51:10,760 --> 01:51:14,480
how hard that was.
Like I can't think of like any

1996
01:51:14,480 --> 01:51:18,800
situation where I and there's
like a $5 motel, like right,

1997
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:21,920
right at the bottom where you're
gonna like, but it's.

1998
01:51:22,080 --> 01:51:25,600
It's the thrill, it's it's the
it's not, it's not just the

1999
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:28,520
illicitness of like we can go to
this motel and do this.

2000
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:32,640
We could go into this place
where like people got straight

2001
01:51:32,640 --> 01:51:35,840
up merked and we can do it on
the in the floor of the fruit

2002
01:51:35,840 --> 01:51:37,760
cell.
Like the mattress has been down

2003
01:51:37,760 --> 01:51:40,160
there.
How many teenagers have like

2004
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:41,920
fucked on that couch or on that
mattress?

2005
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:44,280
Like how often?
And Toomey says it at the

2006
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:46,880
beginning too, when when there
was, you know, two kids that

2007
01:51:46,880 --> 01:51:50,560
just broke in the other day and
did it on the basement of your,

2008
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:51,720
you know, the floor of your
basement.

2009
01:51:51,720 --> 01:51:54,760
Like this happens.
This is a thing that has recurs

2010
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:57,200
in this town because there's
nothing else to do in the middle

2011
01:51:57,200 --> 01:51:58,880
of nowhere.
So why not break into the

2012
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:01,400
haunted house on the Hill and
fuck on the floor?

2013
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:06,400
Yeah.
You're not wrong.

2014
01:52:06,400 --> 01:52:09,640
I get where you're coming from,
but maybe at 20 that would have

2015
01:52:09,640 --> 01:52:11,320
had like a certain illicit
thrill.

2016
01:52:11,320 --> 01:52:12,880
And when you're 20, I was going
to say.

2017
01:52:13,240 --> 01:52:15,760
Yeah, when you're, when you're a
teenager or a college age, like,

2018
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:18,840
yeah, it that is, you know,
that, that, that that's a

2019
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:19,640
thrill.
That's something.

2020
01:52:19,640 --> 01:52:23,360
But you know, for for us in our
in our 40s, we're all yeah, no,

2021
01:52:23,360 --> 01:52:25,560
thank you.
That's why they call it misspent

2022
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:28,240
youth.
Right there, there he is.

2023
01:52:28,480 --> 01:52:31,280
There he.
Is sorry I was distracted for a

2024
01:52:31,280 --> 01:52:33,800
minute.
I was plunking down my $8 to buy

2025
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:36,840
the remake of Psycho.
Ryan, there you go.

2026
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:40,240
Geez, it's worth it.
I just got gonna be.

2027
01:52:40,240 --> 01:52:42,440
Worth.
I don't know if that's true,

2028
01:52:42,440 --> 01:52:45,960
Mike.
It's gonna see for. 8 bucks

2029
01:52:47,000 --> 01:52:50,800
listeners who have the choice,
you can either buy the Psycho

2030
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:56,040
remake on Blu-ray from Scream
Factory for $8 or join our new

2031
01:52:56,040 --> 01:53:01,280
orgy tier, which maybe we give
away a copy of this disc.

2032
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:02,680
Hey.
There we go.

2033
01:53:03,200 --> 01:53:05,480
Brian's not going to want to
keep his, so we could probably

2034
01:53:05,480 --> 01:53:07,160
give away his copy when we're
watching it.

2035
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:09,440
Three of us are going to own it.
Oh my.

2036
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:10,520
Goodness.
We'll have.

2037
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:12,120
At least one to spare.
That is.

2038
01:53:12,320 --> 01:53:16,360
You know, I don't know, do I
like the the tawdry thrill of

2039
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:20,400
like Vera Miles, like kind of
like a a starlet of yesteryear

2040
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:24,640
Hollywood taking a kitchen knife
through the face and then like a

2041
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:26,560
very.
Clear a very.

2042
01:53:26,920 --> 01:53:31,600
Clear like they did not have Tom
Savini doing the effects on this

2043
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:33,040
movie.
Very.

2044
01:53:33,040 --> 01:53:35,800
Clear dummy shot.
There is something kind of like

2045
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:41,160
about that and she was game for.
That's a great shot though.

2046
01:53:41,360 --> 01:53:43,640
I'm sorry.
I don't even care that it looks

2047
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:46,320
super funny.
It's like, it's amazing.

2048
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:50,440
So one of the first people to
see this, a rough cut of this

2049
01:53:50,440 --> 01:53:55,480
movie was Spielberg's editor on
Jaws, like Verna Fields.

2050
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:00,040
They sent it to her and she was
she like one of the first things

2051
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,800
that she watched, last thing she
watched before sadly, she would

2052
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:06,160
go into the hospital and she
would pass from cancer.

2053
01:54:06,480 --> 01:54:09,280
And when she was admitted to the
hospital, like she was giving

2054
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:14,840
them notes, they sent her a
sympathy card with the still of

2055
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:20,520
Vera Miles getting stabbed in
the face with the caption like

2056
01:54:20,640 --> 01:54:23,440
because they did not know how
serious it was, they said.

2057
01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:27,160
And it was like, cheer up, it
could be worse like that is.

2058
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:30,240
The Oh my God.
Which sounds like something I

2059
01:54:30,240 --> 01:54:33,840
would send all of you in a
similar situation.

2060
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:35,080
Absolutely.
They said they.

2061
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:37,560
Were.
Some real Mike Snoonian.

2062
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:41,160
Energy there, they were
mortified where they found out

2063
01:54:41,160 --> 01:54:43,880
like that is what she was in
for.

2064
01:54:43,880 --> 01:54:47,120
But they said like it got back
to them, like she had a great

2065
01:54:47,120 --> 01:54:49,520
big laugh about it, so.
She's.

2066
01:54:50,320 --> 01:54:53,600
Every everything I have read and
seen about her, the little

2067
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:57,680
documentary footage of her, she
seemed like just an amazing

2068
01:54:57,880 --> 01:55:00,200
person.
Loved working with young film

2069
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:03,040
makers too.
She helped Peter Bogdanovich get

2070
01:55:03,040 --> 01:55:05,320
his start help Spielberg on
Jaws.

2071
01:55:05,640 --> 01:55:11,160
I just one of those people that
the that film brat era just

2072
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:15,400
revered if I.
Remember it incorrectly that

2073
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:19,840
like the when they the scene in
Jaws are they actually filmed in

2074
01:55:19,840 --> 01:55:25,400
a pool which is the boat scene
when like Ben said was that her

2075
01:55:25,400 --> 01:55:27,120
pool?
Like do they not film that at

2076
01:55:27,120 --> 01:55:29,240
her home?
Am I misremembering that?

2077
01:55:30,760 --> 01:55:35,520
It was either her or his agent,
Spielberg's agent, who was like

2078
01:55:35,520 --> 01:55:37,640
a big name.
I and I'm Space.

2079
01:55:38,680 --> 01:55:40,160
Yeah.
It was one of those people,

2080
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:41,560
yeah.
Got it.

2081
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:43,680
OK, I.
I don't, I don't know if it was

2082
01:55:43,680 --> 01:55:46,960
hers, but it was.
It was Sid Sheinberg, I want to

2083
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:47,840
say.
This is the head of.

2084
01:55:47,880 --> 01:55:50,440
Universe, I don't know if the
head of University Studios is

2085
01:55:50,440 --> 01:55:51,920
letting.
It was something, no?

2086
01:55:52,320 --> 01:55:54,560
Shark after M, right?
Bruce.

2087
01:55:55,280 --> 01:55:57,640
Bruce.
Bruce what?

2088
01:55:57,960 --> 01:55:59,840
I can't remember.
The last OK we're getting.

2089
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:01,760
Well, now we're just making sure
we're two hours.

2090
01:56:01,760 --> 01:56:03,720
I should probably move on.
This would have been.

2091
01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:05,440
Getting so punchy.
If I didn't.

2092
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:08,920
So.
Mike had no Mike had to do a

2093
01:56:08,920 --> 01:56:11,720
half an hour on Robert Lozia's
orange juice commercial.

2094
01:56:11,720 --> 01:56:14,360
It wasn't 1/2 hour.
It was about worth it. 5

2095
01:56:14,360 --> 01:56:17,000
minutes.
And he kept it to 5 minutes and

2096
01:56:17,000 --> 01:56:18,240
it was worth it.
Damn it.

2097
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:21,000
It's my favorite.
Yeah, favorite. 5 minutes.

2098
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:23,000
Like don't make me play it
again.

2099
01:56:23,200 --> 01:56:26,520
Your mother's right.
Yes, OK, let's talk about.

2100
01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,880
It with all the with all the
tangents we've made, you could

2101
01:56:29,880 --> 01:56:33,760
probably cut this to a tight.
I think the tangents make it.

2102
01:56:34,560 --> 01:56:39,600
Let's talk about Lionel Loomis's
plot to drive Norman back to the

2103
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:43,000
to the madhouse.
Because it is, yeah, one of the

2104
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:46,720
most unhinged plot devices.
The mind.

2105
01:56:46,720 --> 01:56:50,000
Yeah, I'd love this.
Heel, But you know, I think I

2106
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:52,160
think as far as a twist goes,
this works for me.

2107
01:56:52,160 --> 01:56:56,080
Yes, I think this is this is the
thing that I think is fine.

2108
01:56:56,360 --> 01:57:00,720
It's a little confusing, sure,
but you know, to have them

2109
01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:03,720
dressing.
Up as mother and.

2110
01:57:04,360 --> 01:57:07,520
You know, putting the notes on
the wheel and all those sorts of

2111
01:57:07,520 --> 01:57:12,320
things I think is great.
You use the word over plot and I

2112
01:57:12,320 --> 01:57:14,600
think that's really what it
like.

2113
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:18,560
There's too much of it.
It does get a little bass

2114
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:24,880
ackwards for a while.
Sure, but I I I'm cool with it

2115
01:57:25,480 --> 01:57:28,120
up to this point.
I think where it falls apart is

2116
01:57:28,120 --> 01:57:32,040
when you add that other element,
which is Norman starts getting

2117
01:57:32,040 --> 01:57:34,240
calls from his quote UN quote
real mother.

2118
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:38,200
I think that's where it tends to
fall apart a little bit.

2119
01:57:38,600 --> 01:57:43,160
But the idea of like Mary, like
locking him in the attic,

2120
01:57:43,160 --> 01:57:46,880
setting up all the furniture,
taking all the furniture down,

2121
01:57:46,880 --> 01:57:50,760
like breaking it back down,
moving it to the fruit cellar,

2122
01:57:50,760 --> 01:57:54,960
like cleaning up in there, all
of that is kind of like, it

2123
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:57,960
doesn't make a lick of sense
from a logistics standpoint.

2124
01:57:58,200 --> 01:58:01,280
But God damn, that's the kind of
goofiness I'm here for.

2125
01:58:01,960 --> 01:58:04,920
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know, it does raise a

2126
01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:08,160
little bit of, you know, who's
doing the killing, right?

2127
01:58:08,320 --> 01:58:12,480
Which, honestly, even at the end
of this movie, I'm not always

2128
01:58:12,480 --> 01:58:15,800
entirely sure.
It it's not like Scream where

2129
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:19,040
you can go through and watch and
figure out which one killed who

2130
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:21,440
when.
This is not time to do that.

2131
01:58:21,480 --> 01:58:23,480
You're just like someone died.
Oh no.

2132
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:26,800
Did Lila and Mary kill anybody?
I don't think they did.

2133
01:58:27,600 --> 01:58:29,000
I don't think they did.
It's.

2134
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:31,680
That's the implication at the
end is like the.

2135
01:58:31,680 --> 01:58:38,200
Implication is that it is is
actually someone else, but it

2136
01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:41,400
doesn't really make sense
because to me, because she's

2137
01:58:41,400 --> 01:58:46,920
described as a big lady.
Yeah, she's not a big lady at

2138
01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:48,880
all.
And I'm just kind of like what?

2139
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:51,920
I think that like, you know,
eyewitness accounts are

2140
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:54,880
notoriously not the greatest
sure.

2141
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:59,360
And if someone's coming at you
with a giant knife, that person

2142
01:58:59,360 --> 01:59:03,200
might, you know, they didn't
hire like the little person who

2143
01:59:03,200 --> 01:59:06,760
mert who like stabs armed gas.
You know, it's not like.

2144
01:59:06,920 --> 01:59:08,440
No.
You're getting tattoo from

2145
01:59:08,440 --> 01:59:11,200
Fantasy Island coming in.
Yeah.

2146
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,600
Which would be another amazing
twist at the end of Like Ricardo

2147
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:19,720
Montavon.
Well, part of it was like, is it

2148
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:21,240
going to turn out to be Robert
Loja?

2149
01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:25,680
That's the killer, right?
You know, I because I don't know

2150
01:59:25,680 --> 01:59:29,000
if I should say, but spoiler
alert, the doctor is the killer

2151
01:59:29,000 --> 01:59:31,880
in the book.
You know, he's it turns out to

2152
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:35,560
be Norman's psychiatrist because
he's worked with him so long.

2153
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:37,080
He gets in his head and he
doesn't.

2154
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:38,960
He.
Wants his personality off.

2155
01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:41,960
He kind of wants it now.
Yeah, there's all of that.

2156
01:59:41,960 --> 01:59:44,440
I mean, there's a little bit of,
you know, you know, Halloween

2157
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:47,640
remake, Robert's Rob Zombie
Halloween, right?

2158
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:51,080
Sam Loomis wanted to cash in on
things and all that, but I mean,

2159
01:59:51,120 --> 01:59:54,640
it's.
Speaking of which, it's really

2160
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,280
gross that Lila and Sam get
married, right?

2161
01:59:57,640 --> 02:00:01,240
That like Sam's it's really
like, that's really gross.

2162
02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:06,320
That like Sam at.
The I can tell you stories.

2163
02:00:07,080 --> 02:00:12,480
They went through a great ordeal
and all of that, you know, drove

2164
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:16,600
them into each other's arms.
It's like, you know, Keanu

2165
02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:19,760
Reeves and Sandy Bullock and
Speed, You know, you go through

2166
02:00:19,880 --> 02:00:22,520
all this, this dramatic
experience together and you end

2167
02:00:22,520 --> 02:00:24,320
up together.
And then, of course, that didn't

2168
02:00:24,320 --> 02:00:26,240
work out.
And Jason Patrick ended up being

2169
02:00:26,240 --> 02:00:29,880
in the sequel.
But, you know, I digress.

2170
02:00:30,520 --> 02:00:31,880
I don't know where I was going
with.

2171
02:00:31,960 --> 02:00:35,240
I don't either.
I've heard of instances in real

2172
02:00:35,240 --> 02:00:40,880
life where a spouse dies and a
one of their siblings is there

2173
02:00:40,880 --> 02:00:44,960
to comfort the spouse, the
surviving spouse, and they end

2174
02:00:44,960 --> 02:00:46,640
up getting married.
That happened.

2175
02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:48,000
Isn't that thing that a
customer?

2176
02:00:48,000 --> 02:00:50,480
Lost it.
Is actually legitimately?

2177
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:53,800
I mean, yes.
Pretty sure if it's like in the

2178
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:56,920
Torah.
If a man dies and his his spouse

2179
02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:00,800
has not born a child, then the
brother must marry the spouse in

2180
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:04,880
order to have a child to be
reckoned unto the the deceased

2181
02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:08,040
spouse.
Yeah, that's not what's going on

2182
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:09,160
here though.
That's.

2183
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:12,680
Just.
Sam looking over at Lila going

2184
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:17,400
you'll do and I Lila.
I don't think it's that.

2185
02:01:17,560 --> 02:01:21,920
I think that Lila's cute.
He's like you remind me of your

2186
02:01:21,920 --> 02:01:25,240
sister.
You know your sister was hot.

2187
02:01:25,400 --> 02:01:28,800
And there's this thing that the
two of us can have experience

2188
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:30,880
that no one else is going to be
able to understand.

2189
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:33,160
We're always going to have this
shorthand from this thing that

2190
02:01:33,160 --> 02:01:35,040
happened that kind of
traumatized both of us.

2191
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:38,160
Let's heal together.
And that, ultimately, is the

2192
02:01:38,160 --> 02:01:40,160
thing that brings them together.
Part of me for.

2193
02:01:40,280 --> 02:01:44,880
John Gavin was also unable to
reprise his role, right?

2194
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:48,680
Because he had, I'm sure, passed
away by the time this movie came

2195
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:50,400
out, right?
Chances are.

2196
02:01:51,440 --> 02:01:53,640
Chances are.
I don't I can I can look into it

2197
02:01:53,640 --> 02:01:56,520
if you'd like.
Yeah, I'm curious either.

2198
02:01:56,520 --> 02:01:58,960
He turned it down.
Or he was the ambassador to

2199
02:01:58,960 --> 02:02:01,000
Mexico under the Reagan
administration.

2200
02:02:01,200 --> 02:02:03,400
Under the Reagan administration.
I'm not kidding.

2201
02:02:03,440 --> 02:02:06,760
Like that's what he was doing.
That's why he doesn't come back.

2202
02:02:06,800 --> 02:02:07,800
I know.
That's amazing.

2203
02:02:07,800 --> 02:02:09,960
Reagan and Reagan and Gavin were
friends.

2204
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:11,800
Yeah, I know that.
So.

2205
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:15,120
Anyway, I don't know, maybe the
stiff wasn't just what Hitchcock

2206
02:02:15,560 --> 02:02:19,600
called.
Maybe Sam Loomis also had the

2207
02:02:19,600 --> 02:02:26,000
stiff and I don't know.
Sorry, I apologize listeners, I

2208
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:29,200
apologize for nothing.
Sorry, I just found that like I

2209
02:02:29,280 --> 02:02:32,480
did wrong task and then.
MM, I'm about to tell you

2210
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:33,760
something really funny.
Do you?

2211
02:02:33,760 --> 02:02:36,520
Do you want to know what John
Gavin's last acting credit was?

2212
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:38,600
What?
Fantasy Island.

2213
02:02:39,040 --> 02:02:42,240
Love it, love it all comes back
to Ricardo.

2214
02:02:42,440 --> 02:02:45,240
Circle.
It's all time everything.

2215
02:02:45,240 --> 02:02:51,360
Everything is connected.
This is fantastic, Lila

2216
02:02:51,360 --> 02:02:54,280
recruiting her daughter Mary
into this scheme.

2217
02:02:54,280 --> 02:02:57,680
Like, I'm trying to imagine what
it was like growing up in that

2218
02:02:57,680 --> 02:03:01,200
household and all the stories
that she was filled with.

2219
02:03:01,240 --> 02:03:05,560
And you need to avenge your dead
aunt who you never even met.

2220
02:03:05,560 --> 02:03:07,720
Like how?
And I think, like, that's why I

2221
02:03:07,720 --> 02:03:11,400
think it's kind of great that
Mary pretty quickly has a lot of

2222
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:14,760
sympathy for Norman and tries to
like, extricate herself from

2223
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:17,600
this scheme this quickly.
Feels like she was probably even

2224
02:03:17,600 --> 02:03:19,400
married at or named after her
aunt, right?

2225
02:03:19,480 --> 02:03:20,280
Mary.
Mary, Yeah.

2226
02:03:21,240 --> 02:03:26,040
Well, Mary is the name of the
character in the novel, but

2227
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:31,560
there was a Mary Crane living in
Phoenix in 1960 or 59 when they

2228
02:03:31,560 --> 02:03:34,120
were shooting the film.
So for legal reasons, they

2229
02:03:34,160 --> 02:03:35,920
changed it to Marion Crane.
Yeah.

2230
02:03:36,320 --> 02:03:37,840
Gotcha SO.
OK.

2231
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:43,440
But it is a great and just like
thinking of all that goes into

2232
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:47,280
it, like having to make the
phone calls, leave the notes, do

2233
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:51,680
a little dress up, all of that.
Like setting up mother's room

2234
02:03:51,760 --> 02:03:54,760
and then like rolling everything
up again.

2235
02:03:55,280 --> 02:03:58,600
I don't know how that timeline
even works out, but it doesn't.

2236
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:01,920
But yeah.
Yeah, what Lila, she doesn't

2237
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:03,880
want justice.
She wants vengeance.

2238
02:04:03,880 --> 02:04:08,280
Because when Mary's like it
couldn't be Norman who killed

2239
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:12,360
this this kid, because this
young man because like he was

2240
02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:14,760
locked up in the attic.
I know he was locked up.

2241
02:04:14,760 --> 02:04:19,600
I put him there.
When that comes into play, like

2242
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:21,960
Lila's reaction is who gives a
flying fuck?

2243
02:04:21,960 --> 02:04:24,920
Like it just want him back in
the which I would have given a

2244
02:04:24,920 --> 02:04:28,560
lot for for here verifile.
It's like drop an F bomb in the

2245
02:04:28,600 --> 02:04:32,480
yeah while she's ripping like a
giant Virginia Slim just.

2246
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:35,200
Yes.
Yeah.

2247
02:04:35,480 --> 02:04:39,120
She's just.
You know, old Hollywood behind

2248
02:04:39,120 --> 02:04:41,320
the scenes, I'm sure.
Was just.

2249
02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:44,800
Incredible.
She's not like ridiculously old

2250
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:49,240
when she makes this movie.
She kind of looks it and maybe

2251
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:51,600
they age her up a little bit,
but man, you see.

2252
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:54,640
Haircut is not doing her any.
Favors not that is not doing

2253
02:04:54,640 --> 02:04:56,400
her.
No one's haircut in the 80s was

2254
02:04:56,400 --> 02:04:59,320
doing them any favors.
You ever see there's like these

2255
02:04:59,320 --> 02:05:02,400
videos of like high school
classes in the 80s and they all

2256
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:05,520
look like they're RH, right?
Just.

2257
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:06,720
Yeah, I know.
It's crazy.

2258
02:05:07,160 --> 02:05:10,840
Fucking nuts.
Yeah, and we are very far away

2259
02:05:10,840 --> 02:05:14,000
from our teen years.
But I do, you know, like I can

2260
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:17,080
see it being like The Who the
murderer actually is because

2261
02:05:17,080 --> 02:05:22,480
like she kills like a a scared
kid who slips and falls on the

2262
02:05:22,480 --> 02:05:26,440
log, the coal trying to get out.
And she murders Lila, who's.

2263
02:05:26,440 --> 02:05:29,080
Lila.
And she murders like Dennis

2264
02:05:29,080 --> 02:05:32,080
Franz, who's like coked out of
his mind and not expecting

2265
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:35,040
anything.
So there's not like a huge body

2266
02:05:35,040 --> 02:05:36,800
count.
And she has the element of

2267
02:05:36,800 --> 02:05:38,920
surprise the other deaths.
Like.

2268
02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:41,920
Mary is shot to death by the
sheriff.

2269
02:05:41,960 --> 02:05:46,000
Doctor Raymond is killed on
accident like Mary accidentally

2270
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:50,000
stabs him and then you have like
a great shot of him falling over

2271
02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:51,720
the.
That with the knife, the.

2272
02:05:52,360 --> 02:05:57,320
Knife that he just that he just
happens to hit the banister is

2273
02:05:57,320 --> 02:06:02,840
like kind of makes me laugh.
Yeah, that's one of those little

2274
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:06,000
reminds me of like that's,
that's a Friday the 13th kill

2275
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:10,320
right there stuck into a.
That's how you can that you can

2276
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:12,720
really see like, Oh yeah, this
is an early 80s horror movie.

2277
02:06:12,840 --> 02:06:13,840
Yeah.
Sure.

2278
02:06:13,960 --> 02:06:17,080
Yeah.
However, I mean, do we reveal

2279
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:19,640
the twist too far?
Let's go a couple more minutes.

2280
02:06:19,760 --> 02:06:22,520
We'll end with the last part of
it because I want to say like,

2281
02:06:22,640 --> 02:06:26,240
OK, maybe the last thing I have
is like, two things can be true.

2282
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:30,640
Norman is not responsible for
these murders, however, right?

2283
02:06:30,760 --> 02:06:33,040
Norman should not be out at this
point.

2284
02:06:33,640 --> 02:06:38,280
He is literally telling people
in the in the diner, my mother

2285
02:06:38,280 --> 02:06:41,160
left me a note.
My mother is still alive.

2286
02:06:41,480 --> 02:06:44,200
It's my mom.
And everyone is like, Norman,

2287
02:06:44,200 --> 02:06:47,800
you're fine.
They dig up the grave, which is

2288
02:06:48,320 --> 02:06:51,880
something which is something you
can do in movies, I think a lot

2289
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:54,680
easier again than in real life.
Yes, Yeah, Yeah.

2290
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:57,600
Well, it's a small town.
It's a small town, just hey.

2291
02:06:58,120 --> 02:07:00,560
And they're even talking.
Grave diggers come out here.

2292
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:02,480
They're even talking like,
normally we need like,

2293
02:07:02,480 --> 02:07:04,520
authorization from the coroner
and stuff like that.

2294
02:07:04,640 --> 02:07:07,240
That had the subtitles on.
That's what they were saying.

2295
02:07:07,240 --> 02:07:08,320
You're right.
Yeah.

2296
02:07:08,680 --> 02:07:10,520
Robert Loja, your mother's
right.

2297
02:07:11,160 --> 02:07:14,120
Another Back to the Future.
Is not alive, Norman.

2298
02:07:14,240 --> 02:07:17,960
Aside from Dean Cundy, that
brief scene where he tails when

2299
02:07:17,960 --> 02:07:22,560
Doctor Raymond tails Lila, that
is the downtown setting of Back

2300
02:07:22,560 --> 02:07:24,800
to the Future like.
Hill Valley.

2301
02:07:24,840 --> 02:07:27,640
Kingston Falls.
Very, very neat.

2302
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:30,680
You mentioned the laugh line.
The line that gets me is when

2303
02:07:30,680 --> 02:07:34,200
Norman thinks his mother is in
the fruit cellar and he's like

2304
02:07:34,200 --> 02:07:37,920
standing guard outside it and
he's like, they took away all my

2305
02:07:37,920 --> 02:07:41,240
memories except for the cheese
sandwiches that.

2306
02:07:41,240 --> 02:07:43,360
Is cheese sandwiches.
Amazing.

2307
02:07:44,120 --> 02:07:46,080
He does love cheese sandwiches.
Between.

2308
02:07:46,840 --> 02:07:50,080
The authenticity of Perkins's
performance there keeps me from

2309
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:52,600
laughing at that line, but I, I.
Absolutely.

2310
02:07:52,600 --> 02:07:54,480
I think on rewatch you would
laugh.

2311
02:07:54,480 --> 02:07:56,720
I mean.
Between, you're probably right.

2312
02:07:56,720 --> 02:08:00,960
Between the Psycho films and
like Thurman Merman in Bad

2313
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:04,840
Santa, the kid in Bad Santa,
like Santa just get done so

2314
02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:09,760
dirty in movies.
So yeah, he Norman at this

2315
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:14,960
point, like clearly he's if he
hasn't snapped yet, he's going

2316
02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:16,960
to.
And I think that's like kind of

2317
02:08:16,960 --> 02:08:20,760
the beauty of this film is like,
and I mentioned Tucker and Dale,

2318
02:08:20,760 --> 02:08:23,480
like all of this murders going
on around him.

2319
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:27,440
And it's not that he's oblivious
to it, but he's not responsible

2320
02:08:27,440 --> 02:08:31,080
for it, but he's like basically
saying, please lock me back up.

2321
02:08:31,520 --> 02:08:36,520
All right, Brian, let's talk.
We we get the Mary is like shot

2322
02:08:36,520 --> 02:08:38,920
to death by the sheriff because
you know all the.

2323
02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:42,760
Murders get pinned on her.
They get pinned on her in the

2324
02:08:42,760 --> 02:08:46,840
mom, and so that's going to be
like Lila's fate at the end of

2325
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:49,480
this as well.
She's going to be remembered as

2326
02:08:49,480 --> 02:08:53,160
like another mass murderer,
which is like kind of sad.

2327
02:08:53,520 --> 02:08:57,880
She married her dead sister's
beau and she's a mass murderer.

2328
02:08:57,880 --> 02:09:00,960
Not quite the legacy you're
going for.

2329
02:09:01,080 --> 02:09:04,200
Take the L.
No, it is tragedy.

2330
02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:10,520
I wish the film ended here or
you end with a shot of Norman

2331
02:09:10,960 --> 02:09:13,040
that you do.
The final shot we get is

2332
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:15,040
incredible.
Put that here.

2333
02:09:15,760 --> 02:09:21,480
But as much as I wish the movie
ended here, I kind of do love

2334
02:09:21,480 --> 02:09:24,400
this last scene.
The scene is great.

2335
02:09:24,520 --> 02:09:25,840
That's the.
Thing it's.

2336
02:09:25,920 --> 02:09:29,560
Wonderful implications of it
that are awful.

2337
02:09:29,880 --> 02:09:32,440
Yeah, it's sort of.
It's as bad as the sister twist

2338
02:09:32,440 --> 02:09:34,200
in Halloween 2 in my.
Opinion.

2339
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:37,840
It was like.
OK, OK, OK, maybe.

2340
02:09:37,840 --> 02:09:42,760
What if you ambiguously end with
Did Norman do it?

2341
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:48,080
No, we're going to have little
old lady Mrs. Spool, the

2342
02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:51,960
waitress from.
The owner Diner Diner.

2343
02:09:52,680 --> 02:09:55,680
The owner of the diner, yes,
she's sweet.

2344
02:09:55,680 --> 02:10:01,320
Little old lady is gonna come in
and have a seat and have a

2345
02:10:01,320 --> 02:10:05,920
little supper with Norman
sandwiches and milk, right?

2346
02:10:06,040 --> 02:10:07,480
But.
Toasted cheese.

2347
02:10:07,480 --> 02:10:09,560
Not cheese, cheese.
Toast.

2348
02:10:09,560 --> 02:10:12,440
Cheese, which is bizarre.
Yeah.

2349
02:10:12,480 --> 02:10:13,880
Is it OK?
Sorry, sorry.

2350
02:10:14,560 --> 02:10:16,200
No, you're right.
It is.

2351
02:10:16,320 --> 02:10:18,240
It is.
I mean, that just proves these

2352
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:21,440
crazy right there.
I'm I'm going to start calling

2353
02:10:21,600 --> 02:10:23,080
toasted cheese sandwiches.
Now please don't.

2354
02:10:23,160 --> 02:10:24,720
Yeah.
Please, please don't.

2355
02:10:24,720 --> 02:10:29,800
It's happening anyway, but she
lays out the fat, this idea

2356
02:10:29,800 --> 02:10:32,760
that, oh, you know what?
I'm your real mother, Norman.

2357
02:10:32,760 --> 02:10:37,400
And Misses Bates was my sister.
And I got sent away when I was

2358
02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:43,760
young after I had you and your
and my sister Norma raised you

2359
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:48,440
as her own.
So Norman, you killed the wrong

2360
02:10:48,440 --> 02:10:51,480
woman.
I don't know what it all, but

2361
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:53,840
he's like, OK.
But the implication, OK.

2362
02:10:53,880 --> 02:10:58,400
What this comes down to is
Norman has to kill his mother,

2363
02:10:58,400 --> 02:11:04,360
has to be dead, no matter who
she is, whether she had anything

2364
02:11:04,360 --> 02:11:06,560
to do with his life or not,
right?

2365
02:11:06,640 --> 02:11:09,840
So he just whacks her up that
side the head with a shovel,

2366
02:11:09,840 --> 02:11:13,160
which is amazing, I want to say.
Gives her the poison tea and

2367
02:11:13,160 --> 02:11:15,240
then that's not enough.
He's got a smack her in the head

2368
02:11:15,240 --> 02:11:18,000
with a shovel.
More movies need to end with old

2369
02:11:18,000 --> 02:11:20,240
people getting hit in the head
with a shovel.

2370
02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:24,760
And then writhing on the floor
as they as they breathe.

2371
02:11:25,080 --> 02:11:27,360
Think about the end of Sinners,
right?

2372
02:11:27,440 --> 02:11:34,040
You got Buddy Guy in the club.
Yeah, Michael B Jordan and they

2373
02:11:34,080 --> 02:11:37,440
walk into the club, they offer
buddy guys character like

2374
02:11:37,440 --> 02:11:41,280
eternal life.
He says no Michael B Jordan wax

2375
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:45,160
Buddy Guy over the head with a
shovel in Sinners ends there.

2376
02:11:45,800 --> 02:11:48,840
Then it's beating 1 battle after
another for best picture.

2377
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:51,480
OK.
Seven stars.

2378
02:11:52,440 --> 02:11:55,880
Exactly.
Every movie needs to end like.

2379
02:11:55,880 --> 02:12:00,360
That, yeah, you know, and The
thing is, it's, it's I I'm so

2380
02:12:00,360 --> 02:12:02,920
torn because I actually really
like this sequence.

2381
02:12:02,920 --> 02:12:06,120
It's really well filmed, like
it's really well executed.

2382
02:12:06,120 --> 02:12:09,520
The performances are great.
But it doesn't make a lot of

2383
02:12:09,520 --> 02:12:13,080
sense why he kills her.
No, to me, it's sort of like,

2384
02:12:13,160 --> 02:12:16,000
OK, my mother, if you're my
mother, my mother has to be

2385
02:12:16,000 --> 02:12:16,840
dead.
So I'm gonna kill.

2386
02:12:17,120 --> 02:12:21,160
It's just out of the blue.
I mean, I, I think, I think

2387
02:12:21,160 --> 02:12:24,520
ending with a little bit of
ambiguity probably would have

2388
02:12:24,800 --> 02:12:27,800
pissed off in the studio, but I
mean.

2389
02:12:28,080 --> 02:12:31,280
Well, and you can't make another
sequel if Norman's not a killer.

2390
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:34,520
Right.
But it just kind of muddies the

2391
02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:39,440
waters of the lore so much to
have it be this just

2392
02:12:39,600 --> 02:12:42,720
essentially, I'm sorry, random
woman.

2393
02:12:42,840 --> 02:12:47,600
Even if she was Norma's sister,
he had, she had nothing to do

2394
02:12:47,600 --> 02:12:49,360
with Norman's life other than
giving birth.

2395
02:12:49,360 --> 02:12:51,400
She had no interaction with him.
What?

2396
02:12:51,400 --> 02:12:53,640
Did not even know she.
Knows history of abuse.

2397
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:56,320
Abuse.
There's no history of, you know,

2398
02:12:56,320 --> 02:13:00,320
this tyrannical person, unless
it's because it's the one that

2399
02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:01,880
gave.
Him up to that abuse.

2400
02:13:02,400 --> 02:13:03,840
Right.
Well, that could be.

2401
02:13:04,080 --> 02:13:06,040
That's the only.
Thing I could possibly think of.

2402
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:10,600
You get the feeling that he is
going to be doing what we would

2403
02:13:10,600 --> 02:13:13,560
call some transference there.
So the end when he's carrying

2404
02:13:13,560 --> 02:13:17,000
her up the stairs and you hear
Mother's voice and she's like.

2405
02:13:17,240 --> 02:13:19,960
Yes.
Screeching at him to like, open

2406
02:13:19,960 --> 02:13:23,640
up the hotel.
How are we supposed to live that

2407
02:13:23,640 --> 02:13:28,280
he's just going to transfer all
of those issues from Norma onto

2408
02:13:28,280 --> 02:13:29,960
missus spool that?
She is the.

2409
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:33,400
Person that's done this to him,
you get the idea that it doesn't

2410
02:13:33,400 --> 02:13:35,160
really, like you said, Brian,
doesn't really matter.

2411
02:13:35,160 --> 02:13:38,120
Anybody will do.
Yeah, yeah.

2412
02:13:38,440 --> 02:13:41,600
And and I, I struggle with that
a bit.

2413
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:43,640
I do think it's a twist too far,
yeah.

2414
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:47,200
Yeah.
It's maybe not as damaging as

2415
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:52,360
the sister twist in Halloween
where you supply a motive to

2416
02:13:52,840 --> 02:13:54,800
Michael Myers, who's supposed to
be pure evil.

2417
02:13:55,080 --> 02:13:57,600
But because Norman does have a
motive.

2418
02:13:57,600 --> 02:14:01,680
Yeah, he, I mean, despite what
Billy Loomis says in Scream, he

2419
02:14:01,680 --> 02:14:04,400
does have a motive.
It's it's, you know, this, this

2420
02:14:04,400 --> 02:14:06,960
repression and all of there's a
reason.

2421
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:10,320
I don't know if it's a motive,
but it's a reason for for him to

2422
02:14:10,320 --> 02:14:13,160
be a killer.
I do think Psycho 3 went cons

2423
02:14:13,160 --> 02:14:16,400
and again, I think they're kind
of like actually and.

2424
02:14:16,480 --> 02:14:20,200
It does and it's and it's sort
of wrenches it back to where it

2425
02:14:20,200 --> 02:14:26,360
was, which I know, I know, which
is a spoiler alert, but it's but

2426
02:14:26,440 --> 02:14:29,800
even but in wrenching it back,
it's kind of annoying too.

2427
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:34,800
So it's just one of these these
things that you know, because

2428
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:40,280
basically in Psycho 3 they were
the writer was given the demand

2429
02:14:40,280 --> 02:14:43,720
that you make Missus Bates's
mother again, which, you know.

2430
02:14:44,400 --> 02:14:47,920
You can easily do you can just
say like this woman was also

2431
02:14:47,920 --> 02:14:52,440
like not of she invented this
fantasy that she's the mother.

2432
02:14:52,440 --> 02:14:54,440
It is.
And originally like, you know,

2433
02:14:54,440 --> 02:14:57,440
there's obviously there's like
this close up of like the tea

2434
02:14:57,440 --> 02:15:00,440
canister, like Chekhov's tea,
which is in there a couple

2435
02:15:00,440 --> 02:15:01,720
times, right?
Yeah.

2436
02:15:02,120 --> 02:15:05,200
To me, the implication that
like, this house has not been

2437
02:15:05,200 --> 02:15:09,120
lived in for 20 years and this
he poisoned his mother when he

2438
02:15:09,120 --> 02:15:12,120
was 12.
So for 30 years this tea has

2439
02:15:12,120 --> 02:15:14,520
been poisoned.
It's a bit silly, but that was

2440
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:18,120
going to be the original ending.
Like she was going to die from

2441
02:15:18,120 --> 02:15:20,560
poison.
And as an audience member, I

2442
02:15:20,560 --> 02:15:23,000
think maybe that's what you were
expecting because of the way

2443
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:25,600
it's shot.
And then you get that whack with

2444
02:15:25,600 --> 02:15:27,760
the shovel and.
Then he just comes in with a

2445
02:15:27,760 --> 02:15:29,920
shovel out of nowhere.
Yeah.

2446
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:33,600
It's a it's an awesome scene.
That is, that's the struggle

2447
02:15:33,600 --> 02:15:34,840
with it.
You know, it's.

2448
02:15:35,160 --> 02:15:40,320
It's absurd, but it what's damn
it like and that those are two

2449
02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:41,800
things we have to hold
intention.

2450
02:15:41,800 --> 02:15:43,760
Yeah.
As the audience, right so.

2451
02:15:44,160 --> 02:15:51,720
I do love the final shot, which
is Norman in silhouette standing

2452
02:15:51,720 --> 02:15:57,520
outside of the of of the home
and he's like looming so large

2453
02:15:57,560 --> 02:16:00,680
and it's framed for it's
basically it's like the poster

2454
02:16:00,680 --> 02:16:04,120
of Psycho or one of them, but
it's a shot that's never used

2455
02:16:04,640 --> 02:16:07,360
and it just becomes this iconic
shot here.

2456
02:16:07,360 --> 02:16:08,840
It's gorgeous.
It's a great job.

2457
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:10,400
Yeah, it's a it's a great
moment.

2458
02:16:11,760 --> 02:16:14,240
The filmmaking in this is really
just incredible.

2459
02:16:14,240 --> 02:16:17,680
Like I, I have it in my notes,
just like the the frequent and

2460
02:16:17,680 --> 02:16:21,600
effective use of like Dolly zoom
in this like paying homage to

2461
02:16:21,600 --> 02:16:25,480
Vertigo, particularly that last
one of Mary when it kind of like

2462
02:16:25,520 --> 02:16:30,760
flies up the ceiling is, is
really like across the like door

2463
02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:33,879
jam is really, really amazing.
Like that one.

2464
02:16:33,879 --> 02:16:36,879
I, my jaw dropped when I saw
that one like this.

2465
02:16:36,879 --> 02:16:39,320
This film is, like you said,
like better than it has any

2466
02:16:39,320 --> 02:16:42,639
right to be.
And so I recant my statement

2467
02:16:42,639 --> 02:16:46,360
about the psycho sequel sucking.
At least one of them is good.

2468
02:16:46,559 --> 02:16:49,680
I, I reserve my right to judge
the others until I've seen them.

2469
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:51,879
This is my penance.
Thus saith the Lord.

2470
02:16:52,840 --> 02:16:56,440
A couple little a couple little
notes, some of them like there

2471
02:16:56,480 --> 02:16:59,080
are a couple shots very
reminiscent of Hitchcock.

2472
02:16:59,080 --> 02:17:01,719
You have that overhead shot at
the top of the landing.

2473
02:17:02,719 --> 02:17:07,959
Franklin does a brief cameo and
he's the one playing the arcade

2474
02:17:07,959 --> 02:17:11,360
game when Norman first walks in
to the diner.

2475
02:17:11,360 --> 02:17:17,400
And the reflection of young
Norman in the door is Osgood

2476
02:17:17,400 --> 02:17:22,200
Perkins in that scene.
Couple little notes there.

2477
02:17:23,240 --> 02:17:26,520
Yeah, Psycho 2, like it's a lot
of fun and.

2478
02:17:26,840 --> 02:17:27,840
It is.
It is.

2479
02:17:28,120 --> 02:17:30,719
If listeners, if you haven't
watched it, if you've ignored it

2480
02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:33,160
for any reason, it.
Like I had.

2481
02:17:33,360 --> 02:17:36,920
It has that feel of an early 80s
horror movie.

2482
02:17:37,559 --> 02:17:42,320
It's not quite a slasher, kind
of like, again, the reveal takes

2483
02:17:42,320 --> 02:17:45,360
cues from Friday the 13th.
You know, I know, Steven, you

2484
02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:48,160
mentioned at the top, like,
we're going to do the replay of

2485
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:51,719
what happened in the last movie,
which was a very 70s and 80s

2486
02:17:51,719 --> 02:17:55,320
thing in sequels.
Because home movies, the home

2487
02:17:55,320 --> 02:17:59,320
media is not really a thing
unless the film's on television.

2488
02:17:59,320 --> 02:18:01,480
You're not getting to watch it
over and over.

2489
02:18:01,480 --> 02:18:05,719
But also the reveal of Missus
Spool at the end feels very

2490
02:18:05,719 --> 02:18:08,719
Missus Voorhees in Friday.
It does.

2491
02:18:09,040 --> 02:18:10,000
It does.
It's like.

2492
02:18:10,040 --> 02:18:10,959
So.
Sudden.

2493
02:18:11,520 --> 02:18:14,400
Kind of.
I've been here the whole time.

2494
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:18,120
A friend of the Christies.
Yeah, kind of love it.

2495
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:19,879
All right.
Just I wish he had said that.

2496
02:18:20,000 --> 02:18:21,879
Hi, Norman, I'm a friend of the
Christies.

2497
02:18:22,320 --> 02:18:24,879
Which do you think?
Like the Friday the 13th score

2498
02:18:24,879 --> 02:18:27,320
is so reminiscent of Bernard
Herman's score.

2499
02:18:27,320 --> 02:18:28,799
Psycho.
Yeah, everything.

2500
02:18:28,799 --> 02:18:30,360
Is such like that?
It's all a circle.

2501
02:18:30,559 --> 02:18:32,639
It's all.
Circle everything is old as new

2502
02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:36,160
again.
All right, gentlemen, we've done

2503
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:38,080
it.
You did it, guys.

2504
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:42,799
Yes, let's let's talk about
where y'all can find everybody.

2505
02:18:42,799 --> 02:18:45,920
Steven, what's going on?
Disenfranchised.

2506
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:49,639
We're on hiatus right now
because my life is crazy.

2507
02:18:49,639 --> 02:18:52,559
So we're taking this is this is
pretty much all I got going on

2508
02:18:52,559 --> 02:18:55,200
right now.
So but you can follow me at

2509
02:18:55,480 --> 02:18:57,879
Chewy Walrus on Blue Sky and
Letterbox.

2510
02:18:57,879 --> 02:19:00,160
Come get you some, I guess.
The takes are tepid and

2511
02:19:00,160 --> 02:19:01,680
lukewarm.
The water is fine.

2512
02:19:01,680 --> 02:19:04,879
Come on in.
But yeah, disenfranchised on

2513
02:19:04,879 --> 02:19:07,280
hiatus until further notice.
I think Tucker's still gonna do

2514
02:19:07,280 --> 02:19:09,920
like a couple one off episodes,
so the feed will still be open.

2515
02:19:10,760 --> 02:19:13,240
Hoping to get Tucker on next
week for Psycho 3.

2516
02:19:13,240 --> 02:19:16,000
It's a movie he really enjoys.
So hopefully we'll have a little

2517
02:19:16,000 --> 02:19:18,559
disenfranchised reunion on Pod
and Pendulum.

2518
02:19:18,559 --> 02:19:22,080
But yeah, that's that.
And Wells U is also kind of on

2519
02:19:22,080 --> 02:19:24,639
an indefinite hiatus until
again, I can figure my shit out.

2520
02:19:24,799 --> 02:19:26,280
That's that's really what it
comes down to.

2521
02:19:26,280 --> 02:19:28,639
Steven got to figure shit out.
And on top of that, I'm probably

2522
02:19:28,639 --> 02:19:30,480
going to be auditioning for
something in a couple weeks.

2523
02:19:30,480 --> 02:19:32,559
So maybe life will get even
crazier.

2524
02:19:32,639 --> 02:19:34,040
Like that?
Yeah.

2525
02:19:34,600 --> 02:19:38,360
Brian, what do you got?
All right, talk about holy

2526
02:19:38,360 --> 02:19:38,879
terror.
Well.

2527
02:19:39,480 --> 02:19:43,719
Please yes.
Holy Terrors podcast has finally

2528
02:19:43,719 --> 02:19:49,480
launched after much discussion.
So we we have a few in the bank.

2529
02:19:49,480 --> 02:19:51,800
So we've we're not necessarily
going to release them in the

2530
02:19:51,800 --> 02:19:55,800
order we recorded them because
there are things coming out that

2531
02:19:56,360 --> 02:19:58,960
that would fit good here.
So we're doing a little bit of

2532
02:19:58,960 --> 02:20:01,240
that.
We have our our.

2533
02:20:01,720 --> 02:20:07,520
Sort of pre prelude episode, I
call it our invocation Very,

2534
02:20:08,160 --> 02:20:13,720
very is is available where we
talk a little bit about the

2535
02:20:13,720 --> 02:20:16,720
show, a little bit about
ourselves and give some ideas of

2536
02:20:16,720 --> 02:20:19,760
some movies that we hope to
cover on the show.

2537
02:20:19,760 --> 02:20:26,040
And our first episode on Heretic
from 2023 is out.

2538
02:20:26,080 --> 02:20:28,560
And boy, that was a good one to
start with.

2539
02:20:28,560 --> 02:20:32,240
I think we we had a good time
talking with our guest, TJ

2540
02:20:32,360 --> 02:20:38,200
Tranchell on that, who is former
formerly of the LDS church and

2541
02:20:38,200 --> 02:20:41,720
was able to speak to all of that
with some nuance, which we

2542
02:20:41,720 --> 02:20:46,200
appreciated.
And yeah, so yeah, Holy Terrors

2543
02:20:46,400 --> 02:20:50,160
is going to be on.
It's on Instagram and Threads at

2544
02:20:50,160 --> 02:20:52,760
Holy Terrorspodcast.
It's on Blue Sky at Holy

2545
02:20:52,760 --> 02:20:55,440
Terrors.
I have a Facebook page, but I'm

2546
02:20:56,600 --> 02:20:57,240
not.
You're right.

2547
02:20:57,400 --> 02:20:58,360
I don't know.
I don't know.

2548
02:20:58,360 --> 02:21:00,600
No, you're right.
Don't know what to do about

2549
02:21:00,600 --> 02:21:03,640
that.
And so, yeah, I hope we get some

2550
02:21:03,640 --> 02:21:07,240
growth and get some listeners
and because I think it.

2551
02:21:07,880 --> 02:21:09,080
It's a really good show, you
guys.

2552
02:21:09,120 --> 02:21:10,320
Yep.
Well, thank you.

2553
02:21:10,320 --> 02:21:13,640
Strong recommend.
As soon as like Ariel let us

2554
02:21:13,640 --> 02:21:15,600
know that your show was out, not
Brian.

2555
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:18,600
By the way, Brian is just
listen.

2556
02:21:18,600 --> 02:21:21,840
Listeners like as much as we
joke and I think we all

2557
02:21:21,840 --> 02:21:25,200
understand, we kid.
Brian is like the most modest

2558
02:21:25,200 --> 02:21:30,520
person I might know, right?
It's Ariel who tells everyone on

2559
02:21:30,520 --> 02:21:33,000
the team slack.
By the way, Brian's show is up.

2560
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:35,840
You should listen.
By which point I had already

2561
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:38,280
downloaded and listened to the
episode and shared it across all

2562
02:21:38,280 --> 02:21:42,360
my social media platforms.
So I let my social following,

2563
02:21:42,560 --> 02:21:44,800
No, But I didn't let the pod
pendulum crew.

2564
02:21:44,800 --> 02:21:45,200
No.
Yeah.

2565
02:21:46,120 --> 02:21:51,360
It's also on the old Movies for
Life feed, so if you subscribe

2566
02:21:51,360 --> 02:21:55,000
to Movies for Life and it's
still in there for you, it's

2567
02:21:55,000 --> 02:21:57,880
switched over, but all of the
Movies for Life episodes are

2568
02:21:57,880 --> 02:22:01,040
remaining that way.
That's why we chose to do that,

2569
02:22:01,040 --> 02:22:02,480
because we didn't want to lose
those.

2570
02:22:02,520 --> 02:22:06,680
And so we're making it sort of
Season 2 of that is Holy

2571
02:22:06,680 --> 02:22:08,760
Terrors.
Which is also a great listen.

2572
02:22:09,040 --> 02:22:11,680
Your Eyes wiped shut episode in
particular is great.

2573
02:22:12,160 --> 02:22:14,160
You have one on Rocky.
We had a lot of fun with.

2574
02:22:14,160 --> 02:22:16,040
That kind of a clown, but.
Amazing.

2575
02:22:16,200 --> 02:22:19,000
So that was a blast.
That was a very fun show.

2576
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:21,600
We also have one on Citizen Kane
featuring.

2577
02:22:21,600 --> 02:22:23,800
Who'd you get on for that?
One guy I don't know.

2578
02:22:24,040 --> 02:22:25,840
So.
Yeah, found that real.

2579
02:22:25,840 --> 02:22:28,200
Jerk.
Listeners, you kid.

2580
02:22:29,320 --> 02:22:32,960
Listeners, you can find me at
Mike's Union on Blue Sky.

2581
02:22:33,280 --> 02:22:35,440
I don't know what everyone
else's feed looks like.

2582
02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:41,040
Like I, I'm trying to curate it
down to not eliminate political

2583
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:45,840
discussion there, but to like
reduce it because I agree with

2584
02:22:45,840 --> 02:22:49,560
99% of my feed.
There's just too much of it and

2585
02:22:49,560 --> 02:22:51,480
I just want more.
Like I need a.

2586
02:22:51,720 --> 02:22:54,880
Little bit of escapism.
My wife and.

2587
02:22:54,880 --> 02:22:56,920
I were talking today like.
So overwhelming.

2588
02:22:57,000 --> 02:23:00,400
What are we going to be doing
like when ICE comes in near us

2589
02:23:00,600 --> 02:23:02,680
very soon and I'm like, we'll be
in the streets.

2590
02:23:03,240 --> 02:23:05,960
Well, I will be.
My wife is an immigrant, so she

2591
02:23:06,480 --> 02:23:09,480
it will not be, but like I'll be
there because I worked in that

2592
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:11,560
town for six years protecting
kids.

2593
02:23:12,280 --> 02:23:15,960
Right.
Yeah, so we'll see.

2594
02:23:16,160 --> 02:23:19,720
We'll see what happens to me
because I have a big mouth

2595
02:23:20,440 --> 02:23:22,520
anyway.
Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

2596
02:23:22,520 --> 02:23:24,360
whoa.
This is new tonight.

2597
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:27,600
Hold on, you can't just drop
that at the end of the episode.

2598
02:23:28,040 --> 02:23:30,880
Holy shit you.
I know, but you can follow me

2599
02:23:30,880 --> 02:23:32,760
there.
Follow the show at Pod and

2600
02:23:32,760 --> 02:23:35,200
Pendulum on Blue Sky and
Instagram.

2601
02:23:35,200 --> 02:23:38,400
And again, promotion has slowed
down.

2602
02:23:38,400 --> 02:23:41,120
Just because it feels weird to
be promoting it.

2603
02:23:41,240 --> 02:23:42,840
So it just feels.
It just feels.

2604
02:23:42,840 --> 02:23:44,840
Gross.
I understand that person makes

2605
02:23:44,920 --> 02:23:46,240
sense so.
Odd.

2606
02:23:46,240 --> 02:23:48,360
So it's.
An odd time to try and grow an

2607
02:23:48,720 --> 02:23:53,920
audience, right?
At the same time, we need not

2608
02:23:53,920 --> 02:23:56,120
necessarily this show.
I'm not saying this is the show

2609
02:23:56,120 --> 02:23:59,680
that we we need art, we need
film, we need music.

2610
02:23:59,680 --> 02:24:01,520
We need absolutely.
That is the thing.

2611
02:24:01,960 --> 02:24:04,800
And we need this stuff that is
created by humans.

2612
02:24:04,800 --> 02:24:06,600
Please.
Yes, thank you.

2613
02:24:06,920 --> 02:24:11,320
Because I mean, we need to, I
feel like more it's so important

2614
02:24:11,320 --> 02:24:14,280
when there's just AI flooding
everything.

2615
02:24:14,640 --> 02:24:19,040
To have actual human response to
things is so vital.

2616
02:24:19,120 --> 02:24:23,960
And just, I'm serious, don't let
them take whoever they are.

2617
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:28,880
Take that away from us, please.
So it is, it's a wild time to be

2618
02:24:28,880 --> 02:24:32,080
alive and not always, not always
in the best ways, but it's

2619
02:24:32,120 --> 02:24:37,040
really important that we have
things to look forward to that

2620
02:24:37,040 --> 02:24:39,920
we.
Like Psycho 3 Psycho. 3 next

2621
02:24:39,960 --> 02:24:44,440
week you Brian, you said it
best.

2622
02:24:44,440 --> 02:24:48,600
I think the only person who
could say it any better than

2623
02:24:48,600 --> 02:24:50,400
Brian.
Whoops.

2624
02:24:50,800 --> 02:24:55,040
The only person who could say it
any better than Brian.

2625
02:24:55,680 --> 02:24:58,080
Oop.
I thought you could play both

2626
02:24:58,080 --> 02:25:00,600
together but.
You can't so well guess what's

2627
02:25:00,600 --> 02:25:01,680
just.
End with that.

2628
02:25:02,440 --> 02:25:04,040
No, I'm not.
Your mother's right.

2629
02:25:04,440 --> 02:25:05,280
Folks, your mother's.
Right.

2630
02:25:05,280 --> 02:25:07,720
Join our $8 tier for the orgy
tier.

2631
02:25:09,120 --> 02:25:10,960
We will.
We love.

2632
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:13,400
Y'all if I get a free copy of
the Psycho remake?

2633
02:25:13,480 --> 02:25:16,440
Hey.
Come for the orgy, stay for the

2634
02:25:16,440 --> 02:25:18,080
remake.
That is it.

2635
02:25:18,120 --> 02:25:21,160
Everybody, have a great week.
We're back next time.

2636
02:25:21,480 --> 02:25:24,480
Brian, Steven, thank you again
for putting up with me.

2637
02:25:25,520 --> 02:25:27,560
Love you dude, take care.
Everybody.

2638
02:25:28,040 --> 02:25:30,280
Fantastic.
We'll let the intro music play

2639
02:25:30,280 --> 02:25:31,960
us out.
Yeah.