A Prelude To PSYCHO: Alfred Hitchcock in the 50's

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None.
Hey everyone and welcome to the

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pod and the pendulum, the horror
movie podcast that covers all

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the franchises one movie and one
episode at a time.

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I'm your host Mike Snoonian and
today I'm joined by my Co host

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who was up bright and early like
it is crazy early where he is at

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always a trooper from Bloody
Disgusting and the upcoming

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podcast Holy Terrors.
Brian Kiper.

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Brian, how are we?
I'm doing OK.

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My voice might sound a little
lower today.

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I It's just one of those things.
I feel like we should move to

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recording to later in the day
just so I can say good evening.

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But yeah, no, it doesn't.
Good morning.

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Doesn't have quite.
Doesn't have.

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Ring to it.
It really doesn't.

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It really doesn't.
But hey, glad to be here anyway.

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I've got my second cup of coffee
so I should be good.

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I am very caffeinated as well.
Been up early.

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The dogs won't let me sleep at
this point.

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The dogs are like, oh, the sun
is up somewhere you can get up.

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We'll stay in bed however you
can get up.

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So we are doing something a
little different.

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It's our first like real episode
of the year and we are going to

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be starting on Psycho as our
next franchise.

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Just kind of like planning for
that episode and knowing how

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much we typically do with like
the background.

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Just thinking about it's our
first time we've ever covered

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Alfred Hitchcock and he's a
director that looms so large,

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not just with Psycho, but really
like with suspense, with

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thrillers.
Like his imprint is still felt

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to this day.
We're not going to cover his

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whole career on this episode
because like, honestly, you

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could just do a, a podcast on
Alfred Hitchcock himself in his

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films, which others have done.
And I highly recommend Talking

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Hitchcock from Rebecca McCallum,
who I think is one of the

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foremost Hitchcock scholars.
And she does an incredible job

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on the podcast Talking
Hitchcock.

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I love her show in just the way
she talks about Hitchcock.

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I think if you go to the site
Moving Pictures, like she has a

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column on like women in
Hitchcock films as well.

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I believe the site's
movingpictures.com.

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Anyway, just a plug for our
friend because she's amazing,

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but we're just going to kind of
do a brief overview of Hitchcock

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in the decade leading up to
Psycho.

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And the neck is it's his most
prolific span of films where he

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does like 11 movies in 10 years.
It is probably at the point

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where he's at his creative apex
as well.

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Like he breaks off from sells
neck and forms his own

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production company.
And now it's really Hitchcock

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getting to be Hitchcock.
So, you know, I think not

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everybody, but many would argue
like that is like the, you know,

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the period from between like the
early 50s through Psycho our,

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our Hitchcock's creative peak.
So we were just going to do a

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little bit of a, a background on
that decade just as a primer

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leading up to Psycho.
Just also so we can kind of

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clear the deck a little bit for
the background.

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And Brian, I guess we'll start
with here is like what your

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relationship is with like
Hitchcock in his films.

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Yeah, one of my first memories
of being frightened is actually

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an episode of the reboot of
Alfred Hitchcock Presents in the

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sort of early 80s and just being
scared by a piece of media, I

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guess.
And it was this episode that was

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actually a remake of one of the
classic episodes where this

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woman creates A scheme to escape
from prison with the coroner of

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this prison.
And he's going to put her in a

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box and bury her and then, you
know, dig her up and get her

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out.
And then at the end, she

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discovers that the body that is
in a spoiler alert, the body

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that's in the coffin with her is
the body of the person who's

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supposed to come dig her up.
Oh, boy.

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So that scared the hell out of
me at age, you know, 5 or

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whatever it was.
And so I've always associated

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Alfred Hitchcock with really
cleverly frightening me from

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those early ages.
So when I finally did see a

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Hitchcock movie, I remember
specifically it was my grandma

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was a big Alfred Hitchcock fan
and that obviously heard the

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name but was not that familiar
with his movies.

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I knew about Psycho because it
just sort of was always being

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discussed for some reason, it
seems like, and The Birds.

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So those were the ones that I
knew about.

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And so the first one I saw was
The Birds and it was at my

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grandma's house.
We had gone to Blockbuster and

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rented a couple of movies.
The Dead Zone was the other one,

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I think, which is interesting.
So my first Cronenberg and my

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first Hitchcock in the same.
In the same day.

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Wow.
Yeah.

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And how old were you?
I must have been, you know, 11

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or 12, I think, when I actually
finally saw. 12 years old.

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Yeah, yeah.
And you know, I mean, the dead

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zone is pretty mild.
Cronenberg it's not.

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It's true.
It's a pretty like.

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It's probably his most
accessible work, right?

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Yeah, yeah.
And so and I was, I was enough

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into horror at the time to to be
OK.

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But The Birds was interesting
because what I didn't expect was

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it to take so long to get to
where it's going because it's a

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lot of character development in
that movie before there's much,

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you know, actual bird attack
going on.

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And but I still was fascinated
by it and intrigued by it.

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I don't remember.
The next one I'm sure was

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Psycho.
It wasn't really until later

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that I really got into Hitchcock
movies.

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I it was in college.
Vertigo had been restored and

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came out on video.
And so I saw a bunch of his

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movies just around that time.
So a lot of them from the 40s

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and, and, but then also sort of
the big tentpole films that

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we're going to discuss in this
particular conversation.

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What I find interesting about
the 50s is a lot of it is yes,

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it's his creative peak.
It's his.

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It's the period where he was the
most successful just

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financially.
I think he could do just about

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anything he wanted to and no one
would mess with him.

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He had created a pretty airtight
contract after leaving Selznick

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because Selznick was kind of a
nightmare for him.

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And a lot of the movies that he
did though are sort of the

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ultimate version of the kinds of
movies he was making in England

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in the 30s.
And we'll talk about that.

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I think.
Oh, I, I don't think I can talk

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about by Northwest without, you
know, referencing the earlier

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sort of versions that he made of
that movie, you know, and that

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movie is just sort of like the,
I think the, the biggest,

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grandest, most expensive,
star-studded version of that

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movie he could make and well.
It's funny, it's almost like he

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remade it twice because he did
the 39 steps.

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Yep, and then he does saboteur.
Saboteur.

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But there's also before that
there's blackmail.

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There's these other versions of
it where he the the original man

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who knew too much, you know,
where you always where you end

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up at this sort of big monument
of some sort.

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You know, the wrong man gets
considered.

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Oh, he's must be a spy, but he's
not a spy.

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He's just a regular Joe, and he
ends up getting caught up in all

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this mess.
A girl comes along that he gets

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involved with, and then they end
up at this giant monument at the

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end.
And that's sort of that movie.

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And it's a great movie.
And so we've made it like 5

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times.
But yeah, so that's a lot of

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fun.
It's funny because it ends up

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being like in a lot of ways,
like, you know, we're jumping

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ahead here.
I'll just say briefly.

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Like he he spoofs the spy genre
before the spy genre has even

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been created.
Like he can just see see where

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it's going to end up going at
some point.

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And he's like takes the piss out
of it like right away and

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creates one of the best
thrillers of all time and what

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probably maybe his most
entertaining movie as well.

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Just closes the decade with
that.

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Yeah.
It's interesting like a yeah.

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Oh, go ahead.
I was going to say, well, the

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start of the decade's a little
shaky, even.

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Yeah.
I mean, the first movie that he

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makes in the in 1950 is Stage
Fright, and it's still sort of,

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he's experimenting a little bit
now, though, and he tries

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something that doesn't entirely
work and he's like, Oh, well,

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there's another picture.
Yep.

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And he moves on and Stage Fright
is is one of those movies that I

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like.
I think it's interesting, but

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it's also, I think he's right.
I think the false flashback

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doesn't work, but it's an
interesting movie anyway.

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It's one of the films from this
decade I haven't seen.

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I think it's part of like the
there's like 4 films on a set

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from Warner Brothers that has
like, I confess, no, I'm sorry.

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It's not, it's, it's left out of
that set.

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But it's his only collaboration
with Marlene Dietrich, the

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famed, like, German actress.
And it's like one of the few

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that it's kind of considered
like minor Hitchcock in a way.

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But coming from a decade for
what I've read, like, everything

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is watchable.
I came to Hitchcock, like, super

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late, like heading into 2023,
the only Hitchcock I think I had

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ever seen was Psycho.
And I just knew he was like a

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huge blind spot in like my
director filmography for no

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other reason that like I just
never got around to watching his

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his work.
That's like one of those things

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were like, yeah, I'll get to it
someday.

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I know when I was growing up,
like the Birds played on TV all

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the time, but it's just not
something that I watched.

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Then in 2023, I'm like, all
right, this is the year I take

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the plunge.
I had bought the Hitchcock

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Blu-ray box set.
Like Universal put out like a

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gorgeous set of like 14 movies
on Blu-ray.

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I picked up a couple other
things.

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And like, I talked to Rebecca
from Talking Hitchcock.

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Like, where should I start?
And like she was like literally

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my like a Sherpa for me
throughout that year and ended

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up watching I think 20 of his
movies just like that year,

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including seeing like Vertigo,
rope and rope and Rear Window on

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the big screen, like North by
Northwest on the big screen at

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the Brattle in Cambridge and
kind of became obsessed.

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And now like I tend to revisit
like Vertigo once a year.

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Rear window.
It lets maybe my favorite of his

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overall like once a year and
I've just like kind of fallen in

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love with his his movies and
just the way he builds.

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I mean, this is, you know,
shock, the way he builds his

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fence, the way he creates
tension, but also just how

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cheeky a lot of his movies are,
just how damn funny a lot of his

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films are.
Like the humor.

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There's almost like a Three
Stooges level of puntery at

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times.
Like when people think of the

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Three Stooges, they think of
like the slapstick humor, but a

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lot of their humor is derived
from like the word play in some

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of his films.
There's almost a level of that.

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Obviously, there's the tropes of
like the Hitchcockian blonde.

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The man loves trains.
Like, almost like he does.

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All the great ones are like, set
on a train or a train plays in

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And for his time, like a just a
very sexually charged director

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as well, like someone that could
go right up to the line and push

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the envelope during the haze
code.

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So yeah, it's going to be
fascinating to, like, really

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dive into one of his movies next
week.

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Yeah.
And hopefully in the future and

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maybe a different project, we
talk a few of others, including

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some of these.
So can you speak to why the

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relationship with David Selznick
fell apart so spectacularly?

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Well, I think with Selznick, the
issue you have is Selznick

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wanted to be the author of his
own movies too, but that's

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Hitchcock as well.
He would like with Rebecca.

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That's the first film they did
together.

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Hitchcock insisted on pretty
much shooting it the way he had

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always shot things, which was
have the idea in my head of how

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this is going to go together, so
I'm not going to shoot a lot of

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coverage.
So there was only one way for

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the movie to cut together.
And that just kind of pissed

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Selznick off saying, you know,
I, you need to have alternate

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00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,800
ways to make this happen.
But, you know, that's just not

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00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,520
the way he worked.
I think it also it, it just

225
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:57,120
ultimately came down to control.
You know, they're both very

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00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,720
headstrong men who wanted to
have the ultimate vision.

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00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,040
Their ultimate vision hit the
screen.

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00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,200
And I think one of the one of
the worst things that happened

229
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,960
with their relationship early on
was that Rebecca won the Oscar

230
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,840
for best picture, which means
Selznick won the Oscar.

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00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,200
Not Hitchcock.
Hitchcock famously never wins an

232
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,160
Oscar.
Never won a.

233
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,320
It's the lifetime achievement
award, right?

234
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,600
Yep, that's right.
That's right.

235
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,880
And his acceptance speech was
thank you.

236
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:30,560
And he left the stage.
Yeah.

237
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:32,880
Yeah, and he was very old by
then.

238
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:34,680
I mean, he was very old.
He was.

239
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,400
It was 19.
But he was bitter as well. 80 I

240
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:38,880
think he was.
He was not.

241
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,960
The Academy had had ignored him
for a very long time by that.

242
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,120
Point I mean, famously he
snubbed Steven Spielberg coming

243
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,320
off of Jaws like they were at
the same restaurant in Spielberg

244
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,080
just wanted to to yes, just to
but Spielberg wanted just to

245
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,480
meet him and just like, you
know, basically pay homage to

246
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,240
him, just say, you know what his
work had meant to him and and

247
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,240
Hitchcock like declined the
invite to have Spielberg come

248
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,920
over like he and I think in a
lot of ways felt maybe better.

249
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,800
You know, there's obviously the
the push in, zoom out shot from

250
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,200
Jaws, which Spielberg lifts like
directly from some of.

251
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,240
The trucks so to go somewhere.
To go and you know, I don't, I

252
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,800
swear some directors might say
that's great.

253
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,600
It's good to see that, you know,
folks are, are, are still paying

254
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,680
tribute and I'm still relevant.
I think Hitchcock took a lot of

255
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,920
umbrage to stuff like that.
You're right, Like, and I to me,

256
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,640
Rebecca is the best like
Universal monster movie.

257
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,040
That's not a Universal monster
movie in terms of what the tone,

258
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,760
the look, the aesthetic.
Like remember watching that for

259
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,920
the first time and just the
opening shots over like over the

260
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,200
banner.
And I'm like, oh, this could be

261
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:56,840
the Wolfman or Frankenstein.
And those movies had a budget.

262
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,480
Like if you had like a someone
aside from James Whale, if he

263
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,120
had an A list director, like
making these movies.

264
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,280
Yeah, so.
I I agree, yeah.

265
00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:12,000
And it's Rebecca's an
interesting movie to me because

266
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,240
I like it.
But I kind of get Hitchcock's

267
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,120
point that it's not Hitchcock's
movie.

268
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,800
Yeah.
That it's sort of, you know,

269
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,400
this is what this is.
It's not the kind of thing he

270
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,520
did.
He did.

271
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,120
He did modern movies.
He didn't do period pieces very

272
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,640
often.
And when he does, they're kind

273
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,560
of stodgy.
I mean like under Capricorn for

274
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,640
example, this just kind of OK.
It's pretty lifeless.

275
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,360
I just don't think he was
interested.

276
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:41,920
No, yeah.
He was someone that always was.

277
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,000
Like he was reading, he was
scouring, like looking for new

278
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,640
material.
You know, he mentioned he

279
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:52,040
remakes himself a lot, but when
he remakes himself, he does it

280
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,360
in much different ways.
Like he doesn't really want to

281
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,920
make the same picture twice.
And I think especially when you

282
00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,360
get into like this decade, all
of like the movies that he's

283
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,880
most remembered for, like they
feel so much different from one

284
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,960
another.
Even when he's like

285
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,800
collaborating with like persons
that he would use or PE like

286
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,680
Grace Kelly, the Grace Kelly in
like Dial M for murder is much

287
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,040
different than the Grace Kelly
in Rear Window.

288
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,800
Rear window, Yeah, for sure.
He gets gets like shades of

289
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,839
Jimmy Stewart that I don't think
you see in any other movie.

290
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,640
Like this isn't like Frank
Capra's Jimmy Stewart.

291
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,360
And I think you get some of like
Stewart's best work in movies

292
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:33,880
like Rope, which predates the
deaths.

293
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,520
Rope is his first film when he's
out from under Selznick, I

294
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,840
believe 9 and then culminating
in Rear Window and Vertigo.

295
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,000
So you get just these phenomenal
collaborations, like Cary Grant

296
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,880
was another one who he worked
with through the 40s and 50s as

297
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,520
well.
But I think you'd get that

298
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,440
dashing Cary Grant for the most
part in each of his films,

299
00:17:57,440 --> 00:17:59,520
although he could be a bit of a
cat.

300
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,920
And, you know, Suspicion is
another one that sell that was

301
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,160
famously, like, tampered with by
the studio.

302
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,480
Where?
Yeah, I think the quote I

303
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,160
remember from Suspicion is
Hitchcock made the film and then

304
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,080
he bitched about the ending for
the rest of his life, which,

305
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,600
yeah, when you watch that movie,
you're like, you can't really

306
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,120
blame him.
Like, no way.

307
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,240
That was taken away.
I mean, there was something I

308
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,080
saw recently where it was like,
oh, this movie is basically

309
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:30,120
suspicion if Hitchcock had
gotten that, if Cary, granted,

310
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:31,560
turned out about to be the
murderer.

311
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,760
Yeah.
And it was like, that's that.

312
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,560
That's pretty good.
So I don't even remember what

313
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,720
the movie was, to be honest.
So I'm not hopefully spoiling

314
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,400
anything for anyone.
But it was 40s really do set the

315
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,120
stage for what happens here.
And I think, you know, there's

316
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:52,920
some real high points in the 40s
like Notorious, which I think is

317
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,960
probably it's one of his best.
Still.

318
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,080
Yeah, I think rope, I don't like
rope as much as a lot of people

319
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,200
do.
A lot of people place it as his

320
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,200
very best and I'm kind of like,
it's good, but his very best, I

321
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,440
don't know.
I think it's a bit of a, a

322
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,160
technical exercise is like, can
I, can I do this one shot thing?

323
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,720
And it's very compelling the way
it's done because it's like he's

324
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,720
editing in camera, which is an
interesting thing that happens

325
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,280
in that movie.
And I like it a lot.

326
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:35,080
And but I think the very best
stuff that he does is later in

327
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,160
the 50s in particular.
It's one of his queerest films

328
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,400
as well, I think, along with
Rebecca and Strangers on a

329
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,200
Train.
Like there's a lot of queer

330
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,560
undertones to it as well, which
is fascinating.

331
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,360
Like playing with that, you
know, Hitchcock is a guy that

332
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,920
you know, is that a bit of like
AI don't want to say sexual

333
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,880
deviant side to him, but I don't
really know another way to put

334
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,200
it.
Certainly devious.

335
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,440
Yes, he.
Yeah.

336
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,320
If Houch, if Alfred Hitchcock
was alive and making films

337
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:14,640
today, like I think he would be
under a lot of scrutiny and it'd

338
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,880
be a much different reckoning
like his film he would be for

339
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,040
some of the behavior.
And I don't know how much of

340
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:21,840
that we're going to touch on
here.

341
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,560
But like some of his behavior
was like not above board and

342
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,480
definitely would not, would not
stand scrutiny today.

343
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,400
And he's a guy that could hold a
grudge.

344
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,640
Like he could hold grudge Vera
Miles, who appears in Psycho.

345
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,040
Like he famously held grudges
against her for the crime of

346
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,760
getting pregnant when he wanted
her to star in Vertigo.

347
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,640
And he felt like he had spent a
lot of time and money and energy

348
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,160
grooming her to be his next
Grace Kelly.

349
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,000
And she wasn't necessarily
interested in that.

350
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,760
And she felt like one of the few
that could stand up to him and

351
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,240
say, like, I'm not dealing with
your bullshit.

352
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,920
Yeah, Vera Miles is interesting
because she worked with probably

353
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,360
the two toughest Oturs in
Hollywood, Alfred Hitchcock and

354
00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,080
John Ford.
And she didn't take shit from

355
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,600
either one of them.
And, you know, she may have in

356
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,280
her, in the long run of her
career, paid a price for it.

357
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,680
But I think she stands up as
being, you know, one of those,

358
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,440
one of those starlets who are
just said, no, no thanks.

359
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,240
I'm going to be, you know, a
healthy person instead.

360
00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,640
And I think good for her
ultimately.

361
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,920
And when we talk about Vertigo,
I don't, I don't know.

362
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,120
I don't know exactly.
I, I kind of wonder if he used

363
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,360
that as a bit of an excuse at
the whole pregnancy thing,

364
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,440
because I, I've, there's a book
that I've read about the making

365
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,440
of Vertigo, which I can't, first
of all, I can't picture Vera

366
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,000
Miles in that movie for the life
of me.

367
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,520
And it doesn't sound like
there's some behind the scenes

368
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,240
memos and stuff that suggests
that neither Jimmy Stewart or

369
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,360
Alfred Hitchcock wanted her for
Vertigo.

370
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,760
So it may have been like, you
know, this was the official

371
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,960
story, but the actual story is
something else.

372
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,200
I don't.
Find there's a lot of mystery

373
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:15,000
about it.
No, I don't I because I mean we

374
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,680
talked about the second-half of
psycho.

375
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,800
I don't think it's as boring as
a lot of people say it is, but

376
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,320
because when I saw it this last
time I I was like, you know, it

377
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,360
moves, it clips along.
I think Martin Balsam has a lot

378
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,920
to do with that and some of the
other sort of secondary

379
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,280
performers, you know, like the
the police chief and stuff like

380
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,840
that.
But the and of course Anthony

381
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,720
Perkins is in the second-half a
lot.

382
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,200
So I think.
A lot.

383
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,680
We'll talk about John Gavin next
week.

384
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,800
Oh good Lord.
Hitchcock famously referred to

385
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,680
him.
As the stiff which?

386
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,800
Is just great, yeah.
I don't know what's a.

387
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,280
Better burn like that.
Or Bill Murray calling Chevy

388
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,640
Chase medium talent to his face.
Like I'm not sure what's a

389
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,040
better burn.
Yeah.

390
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,320
So anyway, I just don't.
But I don't see Vera Miles.

391
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,920
I don't see myself being or
Jimmy Stewart being as

392
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:17,320
mesmerized in the moment she
appears on screen by Vera Miles

393
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,200
as he is by Kim Novak.
Sure.

394
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,320
But you know, maybe that's just
me.

395
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:25,880
Maybe.
Maybe.

396
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,840
So.
Go ahead.

397
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,480
You mentioned like Hitchcock
shooting like usually when

398
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,360
what's the ratio people would
typically shoot like?

399
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,200
Was it like 6 feet of film per
like second on screen?

400
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,800
Like you would get like a six to
one or like a 12 to one like

401
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,200
shooting ratio where you would
have enough to like do coverage

402
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,760
to look at different angles to
put it together.

403
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,920
And I think Hitchcock was like
half of that, like he was 2 to

404
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,920
one or three to 1.
And he was someone that

405
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,000
basically found the act of
actually filming the movie The

406
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,240
most boring part of it.
Like he was so meticulous in

407
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:09,400
planning every detail,
everything going his

408
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,080
collaborations with Edith had on
in terms of costuming in the

409
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,520
50s.
He starts working with Saul base

410
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,960
in in terms of the title
designs, like things that were

411
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,080
never seen before, in terms of
just like the opening credits.

412
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,400
He was so enamored by all of
those things, his relation with

413
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,600
Herman scoring his films, that
by the time he got to actually

414
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,720
making the movie, he kind of
dreaded it.

415
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:37,160
He was already had made the
movie in his head and now he was

416
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,480
just wanted to move on to the
next project.

417
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,520
He was already looking for the
next thing to make.

418
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,640
Yeah, I think that's very true.
He and if he wasn't interested,

419
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,280
particularly in a movie, he was
known to fall asleep on set.

420
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,560
Yeah.
And so and you can see that in

421
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,960
some of the movies, if there's a
movie he's not particularly

422
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,280
interested in, it's probably the
energy is different in the final

423
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,800
project, it's and you know,
that's OK.

424
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,160
Yeah.
And they're the ones that really

425
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,000
stand out, are the ones that he
was intrigued by, the ones that

426
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,360
excited him all the way through
the process.

427
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,280
Well, let's talk briefly about
some of the ones that stand out

428
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,480
from this decade.
Like I said, there's 11 movies,

429
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,560
and we're not going to do a deep
dive on any of these because

430
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:28,840
we'd be here for a week.
But you will want to touch on

431
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,400
some of them and like why
they're so special.

432
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:38,160
I would say that in this decade
he has at least four real

433
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,400
masterpieces, this being one of
them, like 1951 Strangers on a

434
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:49,440
Train, which Co written by
famous detective novelist, hard

435
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,120
boiled detective novelist
Raymond Chandler, the man who

436
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:57,000
gave birth to Philip Marlowe,
The Long Kiss goodbye, one of

437
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,840
the greatest writers of
detective fiction of all time.

438
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,720
Don't think he had a very good
time working with Alfred

439
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,040
Hitchcock.
Hitchcock had a way of kind of

440
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,920
like chewing up and spitting out
writers.

441
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,160
It's really like Joseph Stefano,
who might have had like the best

442
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,800
relationship with Hitchcock
overall.

443
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,040
And a lot of that, I think is
'cause he just kind of kissed

444
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Hitchcock's ass, the whole.
Time.

445
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,880
Yeah, I think Ernest Lehman, who
worked with him on North by

446
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,120
Northwest, had a good
relationship too, as I

447
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:28,800
understand.
But yeah, a lot of it wasn't

448
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,680
great.
I mean, it's one of the things

449
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,960
about strangers on a train.
It probably has one of the

450
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,000
better pedigrees as far as
original source material, too.

451
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,000
Based on a novel by Patricia
Highsmith.

452
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:46,800
So it's got it's got something,
you know, at its base that's

453
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,840
really strong as well.
I love strangers on a train.

454
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,560
I think it's it's probably top
five for me.

455
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,720
And I I've seen, I've seen both
cuts.

456
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:02,320
I used to watch the the preview
cut, not really knowing,

457
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:04,280
thinking, Oh, this is the more
complete.

458
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,960
Actually, it wasn't the the the
theatrical cut is, is the one

459
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,320
that's the real director's cut
of this movie.

460
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,240
And it's it's got a better
ending.

461
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,960
It's got it's a little tighter,
moves a little faster.

462
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,400
They're not that different from
each other though.

463
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,520
But what a great setup.
You know, the idea of swapping

464
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:27,160
murders, that's just like,
that's a very, that's a great

465
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,640
Hitchcock setup.
You know, it's almost that

466
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,840
Twilight Zone setup that you get
sometimes.

467
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:39,880
And you know, the casting of
Robert Walker as Bruno Anthony I

468
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,000
think is brilliant.
He's so funny.

469
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,760
And so I love the Hitchcock
villain probably most of all

470
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:52,720
because he's always suave and
funny and probably the most

471
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,160
entertaining person to watch in
the whole movie most of the

472
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,040
time.
Well, we talked about we talked

473
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,560
about del Toro's Frankenstein
and we did our like best movies

474
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,520
of the year.
And we talked about how del Toro

475
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,440
has much more sympathy often for
the monsters than like the human

476
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,800
protagonist and his films.
And you see, I think shades of

477
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,040
that with Hitchcock, where he
has a lot more interest in his

478
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,080
villains and the heroes of his
movies very often like Anthony

479
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,440
Perkins and Psycho, like Norman
Bates is the most compelling

480
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,120
character on screen.
They could like James Mason in

481
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:33,240
North by Northwest, who's every
bit as every bit is like

482
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,480
compelling to watch Claude
Raines, like he makes Claude

483
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,240
Raines like a sympathetic Nazi
and notorious like someone who

484
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,840
at the end of that film, when
you know what his fate's going

485
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,440
to be, you actually feel sorry
for him.

486
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,760
Like a release.
I do at the end of that movie.

487
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,120
And Robert Walker here, you
know, I, I think it's a a nice

488
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,920
bit of casting and I think that
it's, you know, you have the

489
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,920
character Bruno Anthony kind of
like talking circles around like

490
00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,400
kind of a hapless guy in this
movie.

491
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,760
And I think that you not only
see that play out on screen, you

492
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,560
see in the performance, like
Walker is kind of acting circles

493
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,960
around Farley Granger.
And it doesn't, it's like every

494
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,400
moment he's on screen, he's the
most compelling person to watch.

495
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,000
And like, Ranger's kind of
struggling to keep up with him a

496
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,920
lot of the time, it feels like.
And I don't think that's

497
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,760
accidental.
No, well, and it's funny because

498
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,560
I mean that Farley Granger's
character is guy is his name is

499
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,560
really funny too.
I I think that's actually an A

500
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,560
legitimate joke that Hitchcock
is putting in there.

501
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:44,200
It's like it's just a guy, you
know, who happened to run afoul

502
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,640
of this other person.
It's it's just got so much in

503
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,400
it.
I that is very Hitchcock.

504
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,840
You have the the mother issues
and the father issues are always

505
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,640
very funny.
And you know, Hitchcock was a

506
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,160
Freudian, so he liked to slide a
lot of that kind of stuff in.

507
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,560
And just one of the most, some
of the most memorable moments in

508
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,680
any movie.
Just like everyone watching the

509
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,760
tennis game and their heads are
moving back and forth.

510
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,840
Except, except for Robert
Walker's head is standing still

511
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,640
and just staring directly at
him.

512
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,120
It's unnerving.
It's so unnerving.

513
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:29,680
And that sequence at the
carnival where where Bruno

514
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,280
kills.
Miriam.

515
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,080
The wife, yeah, is, that's just
stunning.

516
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,280
They talk.
The whole pure cinema idea is

517
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,880
very much there.
It's just there's not a lot of

518
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,400
dialogue.
It's just image and you follow

519
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,560
it entirely without any issue at
all.

520
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,720
And there are these shots like
the shadows, his shadow

521
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,480
overtaking her shadow, and then
the, the light in the glasses

522
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,640
and then the then the reflection
of him strangling her in the

523
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,600
glasses on the ground.
Yeah.

524
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,000
What a what a picture, as they
say, Steven would say.

525
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,080
What a.
Picture and just the some of the

526
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,920
word play in here is so good
like the the you're mesmerized

527
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:21,160
by the scene of the merry go
round at the end, like the

528
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,000
climax taking place on the
children's merry go round.

529
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:29,280
But there's some moment when the
backup like ride operator is

530
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,960
like, I'll fix it.
And one cop is like, wait, don't

531
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,640
do that.
And the other cop is like, well,

532
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,280
do you want to go crawl under?
He's like, Nah, I guess he'll be

533
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,280
all right.
Like that's what I mean by that

534
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,560
Stooges level of humor.
There's so much queer subtext in

535
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,880
this as well.
When a guy gets in the cat or

536
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,760
when the cop gets in the car,
he's like, I'm chasing a man.

537
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,040
And the wealthy socialite lady
is like, oh, how thrilling.

538
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,120
Just like there's just so much
there.

539
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,120
What struck me because I just
rewatched this like literally

540
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,960
ended my rewatch about 1/2 hour
before we hit record the kid on

541
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,040
the merry go round who's having
the time of his life as it's

542
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,640
like speeding out of control and
these two men are fighting to

543
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,280
the death and like then he's the
kid starts joining in and like

544
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,360
bopping them like it's so great.
It's just absolutely hilarious.

545
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,160
But then you get these moments
of tension like with Bruno

546
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,200
having the gun trained on guy is
guy is like walking slowly down

547
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,760
the steps and out of Bruno's
home and you like, I don't know

548
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,560
what's going to happen here.
Like even re watching it, you're

549
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,160
like get that feeling.
I think one thing with

550
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:41,360
Hitchcock's movies throughout,
I'd say like this decade all the

551
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,960
way through the birds is there
is at least like one shot or

552
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,280
image in each of like his best
films that even if you've never

553
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,680
seen the movie, you know exactly
where it's coming from.

554
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,680
Like the carousel scene here for
sure.

555
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:01,400
He tennis crowd, like you said,
like their heads in perfectly in

556
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:07,560
unison going back and forth
while walkers is just like dead

557
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,680
still.
It's so unnerving.

558
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,680
Like, you can just see that
image and know immediately where

559
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:14,920
you're getting.
And this is one of his, you

560
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,320
know, like I, I, I'm not sure
it's in my top five, but I think

561
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,720
it's like, right, skirting the
edges of it.

562
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Like if there's a evolving slot
in #5 this might make it right

563
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,000
sometimes.
But just like a really thrilling

564
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,360
piece.
And again, Hitchcock just loves

565
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,920
trains, just absolutely adores
them going on from there.

566
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,440
And I'm trying to think of how
successful this film was.

567
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,440
I think this is one of his
larger commercial successes of

568
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,720
this era.
Yeah, my understanding is

569
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,920
Strangers was a was a hit.
The next one, I confess was not

570
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,800
I confess is an interesting
setup.

571
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:54,160
I think it's dives.
It's very it has a unique look

572
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,280
for a Hitchcock film.
It's it's set in Montreal, I

573
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,080
think.
And it has a very noir ish look,

574
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,720
which isn't something that
Hitchcock really did.

575
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,840
But I mean, all the streets are
always wet and there's just sort

576
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,880
of that very wide and high
angles, and the church is kind

577
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,199
of always somewhere nearby.
There's a sense of a lot of that

578
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,199
going on.
Montgomery Cliff I think is

579
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,920
really good, though I don't
think he and Hitchcock got along

580
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,920
very well because Hitchcock did
not like method acting at all.

581
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,120
Right.
And so, and he was sort of an

582
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,560
early example of that as film
actors go.

583
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,040
But, you know, it's an
interesting movie, you know,

584
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,040
where someone confesses a murder
to a priest and the priest is

585
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,880
bound by, you know, the cloth to
not divulge that.

586
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,639
So there's some interesting
things going on, but ultimately

587
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,360
it's not one that most people
latch onto, I think, but it's I.

588
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,880
Have yet to see this one.
This is what I haven't seen.

589
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,920
Yeah, it's one I haven't seen.
It's not one I've watched very

590
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,760
often.
It's been a while, yeah.

591
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,120
Next one is what I've watched
watch it once.

592
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,440
I don't know if I'll return to
it.

593
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560
Like dial M for murder.
His like next to last

594
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,680
collaboration with like Grace
Kelly, someone that like the

595
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,320
when you think of like the
prototypical, like Hitchcock

596
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,920
blonde, like it's Grace Kelly
and it feels like after she

597
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,160
exits after rear window, like
he's always like chasing that

598
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,200
again, like trying to develop
his next Grace Kelly.

599
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,000
And he's someone who I think, I
don't think it's unfair to say

600
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200
he was probably like secretly in
love with her.

601
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,760
Oh, I think that's true, yeah.
Right.

602
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,000
He's someone that he lavished a
lot of praise and attention on

603
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,280
her, but also didn't overstep
bounds like he would go on later

604
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,440
do with like folks like Vera
Miles and famously like Tippy

605
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,520
Hedren.
Tibi Hedren.

606
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,640
Yeah.
Yeah, where I think he kind of

607
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:47,960
knew he could not do that with
Grace Kelly.

608
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,800
But this is not one of my
favorite Hitchcock's.

609
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,440
I think it's a lot of persons
really rated highly and it's

610
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,240
him.
It's based on a stage play.

611
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:00,400
I think he did it in 3D as well.
Like there were like certain

612
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,920
theaters in Philadelphia where
it's 3D.

613
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,520
It definitely has that much like
rope.

614
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,520
It has that stage play feel to
it.

615
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,520
I just feel like it lacks a lot
of propulsion to you get to that

616
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,800
third act of the attempted
murder like up and to them.

617
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:21,760
It's like to me a bit of a drag.
Well, it's a very talky movie.

618
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,040
They're spending a lot of time
explaining what they're going to

619
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,360
do, which is important, you
know, to the ultimately what

620
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,520
happens because it goes wrong,
right?

621
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,440
You know, what's supposed to
happen.

622
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,840
And then when it doesn't happen
and it goes a different way,

623
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,200
that's sort of the point of it.
I guess this is, I agree with

624
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,760
you, this is a movie that is for
me, it's kind of OK.

625
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,360
I like it well enough, but I
don't revisit it very often.

626
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,400
I think it's fine.
It's an example of the single

627
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,000
room thing that he does, single
location thing, which he did in

628
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,600
Rope, which he did in Lifeboat.
And it's it's a pretty good

629
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,760
version of that.
But the best version is yet to

630
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:07,160
come with the next movie, which
is I think probably my favorite

631
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:08,920
Hitchcock movie, which is Rear
Window.

632
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,160
Like you said, you know, Grace
Kelly is sort of this is I, I

633
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,040
like Grace Kelly best in this
one of the three she did with

634
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,600
him because she did to catch a
thief after this too.

635
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:23,120
But Jimmy Stewart is just the
ultimate everyman for Hitchcock.

636
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,560
I think he's a he's perfect for
that.

637
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,120
He's kind of a Dick, which you
would see in some of the other

638
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:35,160
versions of Jimmy Stewart.
And so Hitchcock was able to

639
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,280
bring that out of him and he was
able to and you know, I think

640
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,720
that actually helped Stewart out
too, because because he's able

641
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:45,680
to be a little bit more of a
rounded character and not just

642
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:51,160
an awe shucks, you know, Mr.
Smith type all the time.

643
00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,600
He's able to do things, you
know, like the Westerns he did

644
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,440
with Anthony Mann where he's
playing a very dark character.

645
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:01,960
And then, you know, like
Vertigo, you don't get Scottie

646
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,560
without getting this kind of
character.

647
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,280
I think in Rear Window where
he's he's darker, He's he's

648
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,560
telling Grace Kelly to shut up
and all of these kinds of

649
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,760
things.
But you know, it's all and when

650
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,760
you talk about Hitchcock humor,
this is filled with that.

651
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,600
I think Thelma Ritter is so
great as the sort of physical

652
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,960
therapist that comes in.
She's so funny and they just

653
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,120
drop these lines.
The script is so, so tight and

654
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,720
just the way that everything is
set up because you're confined

655
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:38,040
in this one room the whole time.
You don't leave it, though.

656
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:42,320
A lot of the action of the movie
takes place in all the other

657
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,800
rooms around the the complex, so
you don't hear anything really

658
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,840
that's going on even.
You just see it and that is,

659
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,040
it's brilliant.
I mean, this is just a brilliant

660
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,080
movie.
And try.

661
00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:01,920
It's often imitated and
sometimes to fun effect, but

662
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,400
it's never.
Yeah, this, you know.

663
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,480
Yeah, I know Disturbia is one of
your favorite movies of all

664
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,960
time.
You're a big Shiloh LaBeouf

665
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,760
stand.
I know that.

666
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:15,680
Sure, yeah.
So.

667
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,120
I think that movie's OK, but I
mean, there are even there,

668
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,560
there are even sort of, you
know, quotations of this movie

669
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,800
in like the burbs, you know, you
know, with Bruce Stearns

670
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,720
character sitting in the dark
smoking a cigarette.

671
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:32,640
You know, you just see the glow
of the of the cigarette in the

672
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,280
dark.
That's right out of this.

673
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:40,720
But, you know, there the and
just every, every character,

674
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,400
even though you don't have
intimate interactions with them,

675
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,240
every character is so fully
formed.

676
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,920
Yeah, in our, in, in the mind,
you know, even the married

677
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,120
couple that's got the shades
down the whole time and

678
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,000
apparently is having sex the
whole movie.

679
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,720
I mean, you just kind of know
everybody in this complex by the

680
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,240
end.
It's very entertaining.

681
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:05,960
Well, you mentioned it.
It's not like you said, like

682
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,280
here to Vertigo, like you don't
go from LB to Scotty.

683
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,280
Like they're very much
characters cut from the same

684
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,960
cloth in terms of like just
fully giving themselves over to

685
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,360
their obsessions and their
obsessive thoughts.

686
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,040
And the difference I think
between them is here, like LB

687
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:30,440
has like Sheila and has Tom and
has Lisa to kind of play off of

688
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,560
a bit.
So like he's able to kind of

689
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,600
like, and so having all of his
obsessions so acutely

690
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,880
concentrated and no outlet for
those really, he's able to kind

691
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,160
of diffuse them a little bit and
maybe be a bit more likable, be

692
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,520
a bit more.
Even though he's a bit of a Dick

693
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,840
in this movie.
Like the way he treats Grace

694
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,520
Kelly's Lisa is just stunning to
me.

695
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,760
Like, she's coming over and
making him steak and she's just,

696
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,720
I don't know if anyone has ever
looked better in a movie than

697
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:05,960
than Grace Kelly in this movie.
And it's like LB could be doing

698
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,200
anything with her, anything at
all.

699
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,600
And he's choosing instead to,
like, look out a window and

700
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,120
threw binoculars at Miss Lonely
Heart and the composer and

701
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:20,560
Raymond Burr's murderer.
But you can see like so much of

702
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,240
life can be boring sometimes.
And you know, LB is like a

703
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,560
thrill seeker like we and how
it's like played out in

704
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,560
photographs with like the car
craft with the racetrack scene,

705
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,600
like how that is just told in
just photographic detail.

706
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:40,200
Him being cooped up in confined
to one room is absolute hell for

707
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,400
him.
So you can see why he's so

708
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:48,120
intrigued by other people's
lives because it's taking his

709
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,800
mind temporarily off the
mundanity of his own for a bit.

710
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,760
And I, this is probably my most
beloved Hitchcock.

711
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,720
Like, I adore this movie.
I've had the chance to see it on

712
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,920
the big screen and like watching
it like that where where

713
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,400
everything plays out like so
vivid, it's so colorful.

714
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,840
It's just it's a real treat.
The performances are aces all

715
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,360
around.
And again, it was another huge

716
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:14,120
hit for Hitchcock.
It's him kind of getting to

717
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,640
write his own, getting to write
his own ticket because is he

718
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,960
made money for the student.
At the end of the day, he was

719
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,680
making money for the studio so
he could do whatever he wanted.

720
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,080
And that's what it comes down
to, really.

721
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,000
Now, I was lucky enough to be
able to see this theatrically

722
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,280
right after it was restored, it
kind of went on a national tour.

723
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,400
The movie did and I didn't see
it in a very big theater.

724
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,640
There's this little tiny indie
art house theater, but so the

725
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:50,080
screen, I think my TV and my
living room is probably feels

726
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,760
bigger than than the screen this
was projected on when I saw it.

727
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,600
But it was interesting seeing
this in the in a theater with an

728
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,960
audience, mostly people who were
much older than me.

729
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,520
But hey, it's OK.
One of the things is that was

730
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:10,320
striking, though, is that kiss
when she first appears, when

731
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,640
Grace Kelly's character first
appears, she just kind of

732
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,080
looming out of the darkness.
And then they like Hitchcock

733
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,680
double printed the her motion of
him of her moving in for the

734
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,640
kiss of of Jeffrey's.
And I've it's it's mesmerizing.

735
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,360
And something about the
flickering of a projected

736
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:37,560
version of this made it even
more special than than like a

737
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,720
digital printer or whatever.
Yeah, it's, it was such a

738
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:45,040
moment.
And there's this is sort of a

739
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,200
Peter Bogdanovich called this
the Testament film.

740
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:54,120
This sort of his Hitchcock's
theory of film is in this movie,

741
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:01,240
you see someone looking at
something, you see what they

742
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,080
see, and then you see the
person's reaction.

743
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,320
And that's sort of the rhythm of
the movie for much of it.

744
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,560
And that sounds kind of dull
when you just spell it out like

745
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:19,280
that, but it remains so
intriguing and compelling and

746
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:20,920
propulsive from beginning to
end.

747
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,960
This was my grandma's favorite
as well.

748
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,680
This was the one she always
talked about as as being the

749
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,480
best.
For her.

750
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:34,000
So, so the next thing is a movie
that Hitchcock didn't make, but

751
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,360
one that he chased.
And it's it's a film that really

752
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,600
informed where he was going to
go with like the back half of

753
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,840
the decade and what he was going
to try to do at a time where

754
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,200
like, you know, Hitchcock even
by the he's like, he's already

755
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,880
been making movies since the
20s.

756
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:55,360
So he's in his fourth decade now
of making movies and others were

757
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:59,480
catching up a bit.
And you have like Henry Henry

758
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,960
yours Clouseau considered like
called the French Hitchcock

759
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,840
after he gets to make lead
Diabolique.

760
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,920
I'm going to mispronounce it.
Diabolique where Hitchcock

761
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,840
chased that movie didn't secure
the rights to it.

762
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:20,440
And then you know, that movie is
another kind of tawdry black and

763
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:24,000
white low budget thriller.
Yeah.

764
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,160
And even in the marketing of
that movie where close was like,

765
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,560
hey, you can't come in after the
picture starts, you know, we

766
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,360
think don't.
Reveal the ending.

767
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,120
Don't reveal the ending and
Hitchcock is going to take that

768
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:42,240
with to a an extreme level when
it comes to Psycho in about 6

769
00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,120
short years.
But it felt like, I don't know

770
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,800
if would you say Hitchcock was
more offended or maybe even a

771
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,000
little bit nervous after not
only seeing the end result of

772
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,120
Diabolique, but maybe also like
the positive acclaim that film

773
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:03,080
was getting.
I think maybe it was this sense

774
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,920
of, you know, they're on to me.
People have figured out what I'm

775
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,200
doing and they're able to
emulate that.

776
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:15,160
I think that maybe there was a
some element of that going on.

777
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:19,800
He didn't talk about it, but the
movie is clearly it's a great

778
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,360
movie too.
It is.

779
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:25,840
Clouseau and also in Wages of
Fear does a lot of a lot of

780
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,600
stuff that, you know, Hitchcock
would have done very similarly.

781
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,400
But you know, he wasn't
Hitchcock wasn't the only game

782
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,640
in town when it came to
suspense.

783
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:38,040
I mean, he had Fritz Lang and
others that were kind of doing

784
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,880
that, too, but, you know, not
exactly the same way.

785
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,320
And so for Clouseau to kind of
be able to not just do it, but

786
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,800
in some ways top it in sort of
its grittiness and sort of its

787
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,040
immediacy and modernity, because
he was a younger man than

788
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,400
Hitchcock by this time.
Hitchcock is getting old.

789
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,600
I mean, he's not able to give
the same kind of energy that he

790
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,880
was to his earliest films.
And, you know, obviously had

791
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,680
some health issues as well.
But you know, in the 50s he also

792
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:11,680
sort of trimmed up a little bit.
He was.

793
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,800
So by the end of the decade, you
see some of that energy

794
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,840
returning, which is interesting.
So but yeah, you're right.

795
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:22,440
Diabolique is is sort of a
shadow that casts across this.

796
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,160
Then you have sort of the knock
offs of Hitchcock, like William

797
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,040
Castle, who don't really have
the skills to pull off what

798
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,600
Hitchcock is doing but are still
very inspired by what he did.

799
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:38,560
And we'll definitely talk about
that when we talk about Psycho.

800
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,360
And yeah, Hitchcock's thinking
into going into making that.

801
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,880
Basically, it's a for Hitchcock,
a great what if.

802
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,520
Like what if you took these like
cheapo black and white horror

803
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,600
movies that are cleaning up at
the box office, but had someone

804
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:56,440
good to make one.
You know, it's like Wes, it's

805
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,280
it's Wes Craven returning to the
slasher sub genre to make Scream

806
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:06,080
after like a decade of really
bad knockoffs and saying, well,

807
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:11,080
what if a master makes 1 again?
You mentioned Clizzo and Wages

808
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,560
of fear.
When you think about the scale

809
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,520
and the scope of that movie and
what they were able, what he was

810
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,600
able to pull off with some of
the set pieces like the 18

811
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:25,280
Wheeler, like trying to not go
over the Cliff and what he could

812
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,520
do.
And then to go to like such a

813
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,440
small intimate film like
Diabolique.

814
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,760
And then you look at Hitchcock
at the end of this decade

815
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,960
back-to-back does North by
Northwest, which is a big

816
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,800
operatic like ends on Mount
Rushmore.

817
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,640
It's set in multiple places.
Go from that to Psycho, which is

818
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,000
set in like a couple small
locations.

819
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,880
It's much smaller in scale, much
smaller in budget.

820
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,040
It's him, you know, not only
topping what or trying to top

821
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:58,800
what a cluso deal with
Diabolique, but also topping

822
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,960
what he tried to do in Wages of
Fear in some ways which I find

823
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,760
fascinating.
Yeah, yeah, You know, and what

824
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,160
you're doing, what you see with
Hitchcock, you know, you have

825
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:12,440
two movies in a row, Dial M and
Rear Window, that are single

826
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,280
location movies.
And then his next movie, To

827
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:20,320
Catch a Thief, is sort of big
and broad outdoors, French

828
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,560
Riviera.
You have the helicopter shots

829
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:26,520
and everything.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really

830
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:28,560
work very well.
I don't know if you've seen this

831
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,560
one or not.
I own it, like it.

832
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:34,720
It just came out on steelbook
earlier this year and when they

833
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,440
announced it for pre sale they
must have priced it wrong

834
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:43,160
because it was 11 bucks or AK
steelbook and I'm like I've

835
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,920
never seen it but for 11 bucks
I'll blind buy it.

836
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,160
Yeah, and The thing is, it's a
gorgeous looking movie, but

837
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:51,960
there's just not a lot of air
there.

838
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,240
And it's Grantham Cadet,
correct?

839
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,320
Yeah, it is.
It should on every level.

840
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:03,040
There should be a home run, but
it's just kind of OK, you know,

841
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,600
it's not particularly memorable
despite a couple of moments.

842
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,440
But like I said, it's gorgeous.
It's one of the best looking

843
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,400
movies.
Maybe he ever did, which is

844
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,080
saying something, but I I don't
know.

845
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,760
I don't know the box office on
that one, to be honest.

846
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,480
I know the next one was not a
hit.

847
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,400
No, and that's the trouble with
Harry, the trouble with Harry,

848
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,160
the trouble with Harry I find
really kind of interesting.

849
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,520
It's very it's very
uncharacteristic.

850
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,240
It's.
Him trying to do a light breezy

851
00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:38,560
comedy.
But a dark comedy still, because

852
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:43,120
it's about, you know, who
killed, killed this guy and we

853
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,040
got to bury him and we got to
unburry him.

854
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:48,040
We got to, you know, I don't
know, I've kind of find it

855
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,520
entertaining.
I think it's a little odd in a

856
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,440
lot of ways.
Like Shirley MacLaine is not a

857
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,200
typical Hitchcock female lead at
all.

858
00:51:01,120 --> 00:51:04,720
And so it's doing something a
bit different.

859
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,960
So I don't know.
It's Got the Beaver in it.

860
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,600
You know, Jerry Mathers as the
little kid.

861
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,360
The catcher thief is a hit.
The catcher thief is a hit.

862
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:21,400
It two and a half million to
make pulls in about 9 million in

863
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:23,200
theater rentals.
So that is a hit.

864
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,320
This the trouble with Harry
isn't so much I mean Shirley

865
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:29,000
MacLaine.
Like I, I remember watching the

866
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,880
Apartment and watching MacLaine
like literally invent the manic

867
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,240
Pixie dream girl on screen in
that.

868
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:41,160
And like Jack Lemmon being so
charming with her and being

869
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,560
really excited to watch the
Trouble with Harry afterwards.

870
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,520
And just like, honestly, after
about 30 minutes, like I'm

871
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,760
getting bored.
Like it just didn't do it for

872
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,080
me.
Hitchcock can be really funny

873
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,240
when he's not doing comedy.
It's when he's trying to make a

874
00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:01,040
comedy that it feels really,
really forced and just it just

875
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,360
didn't hit.
Yeah, and that's fair.

876
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,320
I I kind of have a soft spot for
it.

877
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:09,880
I think Hitchcock actually
really liked this movie.

878
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,200
It was one of his sort of
personal favorites of his own

879
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,600
movies.
You know, they say I've, I've

880
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,600
heard that The Trouble with
Harry and Shadow of a Doubt were

881
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,680
kind of his personal favorites.
Shadow of a Doubt.

882
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,200
Is a perfect movie.
I mean it's.

883
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:25,880
Just yeah, it is.
It is.

884
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,720
Yeah.
Shadow of a Doubt is amazing.

885
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:32,760
So, I mean, so he went with the
surefire hit, I think afterwards

886
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,320
with The Man Who Knew Too Much,
a remake of his own movie, which

887
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,240
he only did one time.
And I like both versions.

888
00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:43,240
I really like the the British
version.

889
00:52:43,240 --> 00:52:47,760
I think it's got a, it's got a
real manic energy, that of a

890
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,480
young man, you know, that this
one doesn't quite have.

891
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:52,480
But, you know, this is still a
lot of fun.

892
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:54,720
Yeah.
Doris today is loaded.

893
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:56,640
To me.
It is, it is.

894
00:52:56,680 --> 00:52:58,760
I agree Doris Day is a little
weird.

895
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:01,680
Yeah.
As a as a Hitchcock blonde, you

896
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:04,960
know, she's not, she's a little
bit, she doesn't have quite the

897
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:06,640
coolness.
Yeah, of.

898
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,240
Some of the others, but she
seems to be having a good time.

899
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:11,480
So there's that.
Yeah.

900
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,680
Jimmy Stewart, I think is is you
know Jimmy Stewart in this and

901
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:19,320
you know, it's it's a good movie
overall.

902
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:26,440
It's it's closer to North by
Northwest than the original

903
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,080
version, but North by Northwest
is sort of the better version.

904
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:31,600
Yeah.
So.

905
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:36,920
The thing with like Doris Day
and Janet Lee was like similar,

906
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,360
like they were kind of
considered cut from a similar

907
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,280
cloth, like a bit more of like
the wholesome type.

908
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,680
When Hollywood is starting to
get like a little bit more

909
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:50,200
risque and you have your Marilyn
Monroe's or Jane Mansfield's,

910
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,800
like your sexy bombshells and
like Doris Day and Janet Lee

911
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:58,120
were considered like, I don't
want to say safer, but I can't

912
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,880
think of a better word, like
safer pics in terms of like a

913
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,080
little bit more wholesome.
I think the difference is like I

914
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:09,400
could see Janet Lee doing the
Doris Day role in in The Man Who

915
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,920
Knew Too Much.
I couldn't see Doris Day doing

916
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,960
Janet Lee's role in Psycho where
Janet Lee is a bit more, you

917
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,800
know, you see her in like her
bras ear.

918
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:22,600
You see her like spread out on
the bed early in the film.

919
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:25,160
Like there's something very
alluring about her, like she was

920
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,880
playing against hype in a
certain way.

921
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,600
Doris Day I find kind of milk
toast as a performer.

922
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:39,160
And you know, I if I think this
is, you know, Stewart has one

923
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:42,760
more collaboration with
Hitchcock after this.

924
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,120
It feels like this one, he's
kind of phoning it in a little

925
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:46,600
bit, like I don't feel that
same.

926
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,200
He's not.
I don't think Hitchcock is as

927
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,360
interested in this movie as he
is.

928
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,480
It's like I'm making this
because trouble with Harry

929
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:58,120
didn't do well enough.
And I know this one will.

930
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,040
Yeah.
And so he's kind of goes falls

931
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,400
back onto what he is familiar
with.

932
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,800
And he does that again, to be
fair, with North by Northwest.

933
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:13,000
But North by Northwest manages
to be so much more alive than

934
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,240
this one.
Yeah, not that this one's bad.

935
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:20,280
I don't dislike this movie, but
it doesn't stand out to me and

936
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:23,240
never has stood out to me as one
of the best.

937
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,360
I actually think that the
original kind of is as far as

938
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:33,800
the early because part of it is
the Peter Laurie playing a great

939
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,320
villain in that version and it's
AI.

940
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:41,640
Don't know, I love sort of the
weirdness of the original men

941
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,640
who knew too much from the 30s.
Yeah, it's it's a lot of fun.

942
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:49,000
And it's 75 minutes, it's tight,
it gets in, it gets out like

943
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:50,960
you.
You don't really get a chance to

944
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,960
kind of let your attention
wander with it at all.

945
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,360
Like it's just like a tight
little thriller.

946
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:59,720
Yeah.
You mentioned how like Hitchcock

947
00:55:59,720 --> 00:56:02,480
never talked about Diabolique,
at least like publicly.

948
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:06,520
He never really made statement.
Did he ever talk about De Palma

949
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,480
in the 70s?
Like is De Palma was coming up?

950
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:13,960
Did he ever, or De Palma like,
really hit his peak after

951
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,360
Hitchcock had already passed?
Sure.

952
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,800
Well, I, you know, it's been a
while since I've read the the

953
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,080
Hitchcock Truffaut book, which
is probably the most Frank

954
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,520
Hitchcock really ever got.
But Hitchcock just didn't talk

955
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,280
about other people's movies very
much.

956
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,120
He didn't, He seemed to, I think
I saw a list one time of his

957
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,680
favorite movies that he created
and they were all silent films

958
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,760
except for one.
So I, I can't, so I don't know

959
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:48,520
that he really talked about his
contemporaries much publicly in

960
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:49,720
private.
Who knows?

961
00:56:49,720 --> 00:56:53,200
I mean, I, I, I think he was
bothered by William Castle.

962
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,720
I think he was was he bothered
by Brian De Palma is an

963
00:56:56,720 --> 00:57:00,240
interesting question because
frankly, some of De Palma's

964
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:05,000
movies I watch and I can get
past that they are ripping off

965
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,640
wholesale, but then I watch body
double and I'm like, Oh God,

966
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,920
this is just this goes beyond
homage, you know, and I know

967
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,960
people love that movie and but I
I don't get it.

968
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:21,960
I don't get it.
So it's a weird thing because,

969
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,800
you know, raising Cain and and
what's dressed to kill.

970
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:32,640
They like make no bones that
they are absolutely pulling

971
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,440
shots and plot pulling.
Straight from Hitchcock, yeah.

972
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:39,120
Straight from Hitchcock.
I mean, there's just no, there's

973
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:44,920
no question about it now from a
technical standpoint, I think

974
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,880
that the advances in technology
and stuff like that diploma

975
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:52,440
improves on some of them.
You know, I mean, part of that

976
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:56,280
is just the fact that technology
had improved and filmmaking

977
00:57:56,280 --> 00:58:01,440
techniques had advanced.
But as far as ideas go, I, I, I

978
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,920
don't know that he's really
doing anything super original.

979
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:10,320
I mean, the Palma's defense is
always, well, I the most devoted

980
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,120
to Hitchcock because I took what
he did and I just did it more.

981
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,840
It's like, OK, sure, you know,
And I don't want to shit on De

982
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:24,200
Palma because I, I really do
think he's a talented filmmaker

983
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,960
and has made a lot of really
good movies.

984
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:32,400
But at the same time, I can see
someone like Scorsese takes the

985
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:35,440
things he learned from Hitchcock
and Ford and, and sort of

986
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,320
filters them all through his own
vision.

987
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,960
Whereas with De Palma, I just
kind of see him.

988
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,080
And De Palma is someone I do
have a lot of blind spots

989
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,680
similar to Hitchcock from a few
years ago.

990
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,600
I need to kind of go through his
filmography a bit more.

991
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,960
I've seen some but like not
enough.

992
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,080
And you mentioned Scorsese.
It's fascinating because in the

993
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,040
early 90s he swaps movies with
Spielberg.

994
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:06,320
And instead of doing Schindler's
List, he does Cape Fear, which

995
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,120
feels like his most Hitchcockian
movie, and he makes it look so

996
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,920
effortless, like it just feels
like such a breeze to get

997
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:18,760
through that movie.
But then he talks about Raging

998
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:25,080
Bull and the sequence where
Sugar Ray Robinson like knocks

999
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:27,120
out doesn't knock out Jake
Lamotto.

1000
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,040
But like this, the fight is.
Beats the hell out of him, yeah.

1001
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:33,600
The way that is cut, he's like,
I just went through the shower

1002
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,560
scene, Shower scene, Psycho, and
I timed all my cuts to that.

1003
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,320
We'll talk more about that next
week, I think, and maybe a bit

1004
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,600
more in a little bit more
detail.

1005
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:47,040
Well, something happens in
between The Trouble with Harry

1006
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:51,440
and The Man Who Knew Too Much in
that Hitchcock is introduced to

1007
00:59:51,440 --> 00:59:54,440
like, a whole other audience
that maybe weren't going to the

1008
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:59,280
movies with the creation of
Alfred Hitchcock Presents, which

1009
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,560
I believe ran for six seasons in
its original run and stuff like

1010
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:05,200
that.
Yeah, obviously doesn't direct.

1011
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:10,680
Every single episode he directs
a handful of them, but what he

1012
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:16,480
does do is he gets in front of
the camera before and after

1013
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,120
every story to introduce it and
then to give the denouement of

1014
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,760
it at the end.
And Americans are introduced to

1015
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:30,880
this like droll, stodgy kind of
impish dude.

1016
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:33,800
And.
Fall in love with him in a lot

1017
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:35,440
of ways.
Like when you think of like the

1018
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:38,240
first thing you think of
Hitchcock, probably when you

1019
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,280
picture him is like the profile
picture from this show.

1020
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:46,960
And it's like a top five show,
top 10 show at a time when

1021
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:52,640
there's only three stations and
10s of millions of people are

1022
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,240
putting Alfred Hitchcock in
their living rooms by choice

1023
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,760
every week.
Yeah, Alfred Hitchcock Presents

1024
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,760
did a lot to help his later
career, I think, and there's a

1025
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,520
lot that's so much fun with that
show.

1026
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,880
It's interesting because my
daughter actually watched an

1027
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:15,080
episode that he directed in
school a couple years ago, Lamb

1028
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:18,600
to the Slaughter, because they
had read the story and so they

1029
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:22,400
watched the episode, which I
thought was interesting.

1030
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:27,080
So when we watched Psycho as a
family, she was kind of, they

1031
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,640
kind of knew what I don't know
what to expect.

1032
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,600
They they didn't know the
ending, which was great and

1033
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:36,280
unexpected.
But the style of that, you know,

1034
01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:41,640
the quick TV, quick and dirty TV
style that he did for Psycho is

1035
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:47,320
there, but it's still very much
imprinted with, you know, him

1036
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:51,680
And Hitchcock had been doing
things like he he would put his

1037
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:55,320
name on anthologies of like
mystery stories and stuff.

1038
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,080
So there were a lot of things
like actually my grandma had a

1039
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:03,400
few of those and I ended up with
him in my own library, which is

1040
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,800
kind of fun.
But so I think he was

1041
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:09,120
associated, you know, we talked
about creating a brand, right?

1042
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,480
And Hitchcock was really good at
that.

1043
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:15,960
He managed to make that work for
him because there's, I mean, we

1044
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,400
talked about sort of the
outliers, like the trouble with

1045
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:22,600
Harry, but almost exclusively
what he did were, you know,

1046
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:28,880
ordinary man caught up in the
some sort of spy thriller.

1047
01:02:29,240 --> 01:02:33,160
Kind of drained.
Yeah, and that's so often the

1048
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,240
case of what he did.
I mean, Psycho was kind of

1049
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,960
really one of the few that's not
that, you know?

1050
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:46,120
Well, if he had a film where
like the the female was leading

1051
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,200
the movie.
Yeah, notorious.

1052
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:53,720
Sorry, not suspicion.
Rebecca Dial in for murder,

1053
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,000
Psycho.
Like if a female was leading the

1054
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,640
proceedings, chances are like
somebody was trying to kill her.

1055
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,280
Like that was the point of view
that it was taken from.

1056
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:07,680
He's also like making TV at a
time when most of the Hollywood

1057
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,720
is like scared shitless.
Of.

1058
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:14,520
Television and you see like
aspect ratios in motion pictures

1059
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,800
change because of television.
Like you go from a four by three

1060
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,520
that boxy look to like why, you
know, scope, cinema scope at

1061
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,200
this point because like they're
trying to give like much like we

1062
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,920
see today, you're trying to give
theater goes a reason to go out

1063
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:34,440
and go to the movies rather than
just wait to watch it on

1064
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,120
television.
And Hitchcock sees that, and it

1065
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,440
is he's like a kind of an
anomaly in this area and that

1066
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:45,680
where everyone else in Hollywood
is trying to distance themselves

1067
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:47,760
from television as much as
possible.

1068
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,840
He not only embraces it, but he
puts his name on the show and

1069
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,480
he's like, this is just going to
make it.

1070
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,320
He kind of sees it's going to
make things easier for him in

1071
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,480
the long run.
Absolutely.

1072
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:03,400
I mean, he even, you know, like
one of the gimmicks that, you

1073
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:07,280
know, theater tried was DD, for
example, and he did that, you

1074
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,360
know, and he did, you know, all
of his movies are wide screen

1075
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:15,520
from I want to say I, I can't
remember if Strangers on the

1076
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,520
Train is in 185 or not.
Yeah.

1077
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,840
But I think yeah, yeah, Rear
Window is for sure.

1078
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,720
And after.
So, yeah, it's just because I, I

1079
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,720
think, you know, and he got, he
shot in, you know, Vista Vision

1080
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:31,720
for the most part, because that
was Paramount's thing.

1081
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:35,880
And he was at Paramount for most
of this decade, you know, until

1082
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:40,400
Paramount even technically
speaking, did Psycho.

1083
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,200
But they didn't want to, they
didn't want to do it.

1084
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,080
So, so Universal was they made a
deal with Universal to make it

1085
01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:52,400
happen, you know, But one of the
things also about this decade is

1086
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:56,280
that a lot of these movies after
a certain time would revert back

1087
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:00,560
to Hitchcock.
So it's the I believe they were

1088
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,760
Rear Window.
See here.

1089
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:08,800
They were rope, rear Window, the
trouble with Harry, Vertigo, and

1090
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,920
maybe the man, the man who knew
too much.

1091
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,600
I'm guessing that's the case
because those are all in the

1092
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,880
Universal box set and they're
not Universal movies.

1093
01:05:19,360 --> 01:05:26,400
Yeah, and the thing about those
was that they became rarities.

1094
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,320
For a long time.
They were not released on video

1095
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,880
until after.
They were never re released in

1096
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:36,360
theaters while Hitchcock was
alive, and they weren't released

1097
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:41,120
on video until the mid 80s.
They were.

1098
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:45,040
They put all of them out.
So Vertigo in in particular was

1099
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,120
real rarity for a long time,
which is interesting.

1100
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:51,560
And the thing about not being
released in theaters like that

1101
01:05:51,560 --> 01:05:54,960
doesn't happen now.
But you know, back in the 30's,

1102
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:59,320
the 40's, the 50s films were re
released often because it was

1103
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:01,400
the only way to see them.
Like especially before

1104
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:05,160
television you would have a
movie re released in theaters or

1105
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:09,080
if it was a hit over and over
again so new audiences could

1106
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:13,360
catch up with it.
So for his work to be did he,

1107
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:18,200
did he give any reason as to why
he just didn't want his movies

1108
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,800
like put back in theaters?
I think there was just a, well,

1109
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,720
I mean, part of it was a
personal grudge about Vertigo, I

1110
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,800
think because, you know, Vertigo
was not accepted when it came

1111
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:32,800
out.
But I mean, I guess we'll get to

1112
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,600
that in a second, and we should
probably mention the wrong man.

1113
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:37,280
Yeah, we'll talk.
Very.

1114
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,040
Briefly.
I I think the wrong man's an

1115
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,360
interesting idea and it's an OK
movie.

1116
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:48,800
Peter Fonda's kind of a weird,
not Peter Fonda, Henry Fonda,

1117
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,480
goodness, Henry Fonda.
It's kind of it's kind of a

1118
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:54,240
weird Hitchcock, you know,
leaning man.

1119
01:06:54,240 --> 01:07:03,640
But the whole idea of it was,
hey, this is a a true story, you

1120
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,880
know, depicted on screen.
And so it was like, I've done

1121
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:11,320
all these movies about the wrong
man being brought into some sort

1122
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,720
of situation, while this is a
real version of that.

1123
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:18,680
And it's black and white and
it's gritty and it's not very

1124
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,080
fun.
I think that's part of it is

1125
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:25,040
it's pretty deadly serious.
And I think Hitchcock works best

1126
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,760
when there's a bit of levity and
cheekiness thrown in.

1127
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,320
But, you know, that's not to say
that there's nothing worthwhile

1128
01:07:31,320 --> 01:07:32,720
about it.
I think it's an interesting

1129
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,440
movie overall.
I just don't, you know, again,

1130
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:39,320
it's not one of my top.
It's him doing true crime before

1131
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:43,360
true crime was a thing.
He found himself intrigued by

1132
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:45,560
the store.
And I think there's, you know,

1133
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,280
there's the fable about
Hitchcock that is often told as

1134
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:54,560
a he was deathly afraid of the
police because as a young boy,

1135
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:59,120
his father like, bought him to a
police precinct and as a joke or

1136
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:04,160
as a cautionary lesson, like had
Hitchcock as a young boy, like

1137
01:08:04,160 --> 01:08:07,600
locked behind bars.
And the cops told him, like,

1138
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:10,080
this is what happens to like,
naughty young boys.

1139
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:12,120
And that, like stuck with
Hitchcock.

1140
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:15,800
And that's why you often see,
you know, a distrust of the

1141
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:18,920
police in many of Hitchcock's
movies.

1142
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:22,279
And you know, you see that in
Psycho for sure, like the way

1143
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:27,080
the the way the traffic officer
is framed in that like he is

1144
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:29,920
like your initial almost
villain, like he's the scariest

1145
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:34,720
figure in the first like 15
minutes of that movie, just like

1146
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:38,240
the extreme close up of him.
And you see that, you know, in

1147
01:08:38,240 --> 01:08:42,640
the wrong man, this idea that
the cops hold all the cards and

1148
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,720
how easy it is.
Like if they have an idea, yeah,

1149
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,960
like, you're their guy, they're
going to reshape the narrative

1150
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:52,680
to fit their story, their device
if they have to.

1151
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,760
But I don't think it works like
it's part.

1152
01:08:54,760 --> 01:09:00,040
I bought got this as part of
that four film set from Warner

1153
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:01,560
Brothers.
It was like, very.

1154
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:05,160
It was like 20 bucks on special.
And I'd wanted to catch this

1155
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,240
one.
So I was intrigued by the idea

1156
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,479
of, you know, him doing almost
like a true Crime Story.

1157
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:13,520
And it I found like after the
again, like much like the

1158
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,359
trouble with Harry it was it
drifted for me.

1159
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,359
Sure, yeah.
And and that's.

1160
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:23,720
Yeah, it's, it's not one that
is, I don't think even Hitchcock

1161
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:25,880
highly regarded it.
And he thought, yeah, he was

1162
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,479
fine.
Now the one I think that it's

1163
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:32,319
interesting how much Vertigo,
the perception of Vertigo

1164
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:36,840
changes over the years, because
obviously what initially

1165
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:40,760
released it was not a success
with audiences or critics.

1166
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:43,160
They didn't understand what
Hitchcock was doing.

1167
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:49,040
And then over time it becomes
sort of a cult classic and then

1168
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:52,319
becomes one of the worst things
that could have possibly

1169
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,720
happened to Vertigo was it was
named the greatest movie of all

1170
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:58,400
time by Sight and Sound, you
know, 10 years ago.

1171
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,080
I think that's that's a hefty
burden for any movie but Citizen

1172
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,680
Kane to take on.
Even Citizen and Kane taking

1173
01:10:04,680 --> 01:10:08,000
that on was tough, but you kind
of get it I guess with that.

1174
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:12,960
Vertigo's an interesting piece
though, because the first time I

1175
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:17,280
saw it, I didn't get it either.
I'll admit I saw it when I was

1176
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,720
in my early 20s.
Like it did just come out on

1177
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:22,480
video.
I'd watched a lot of other

1178
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:26,240
Hitchcock and it's it's
different.

1179
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:31,560
It doesn't have, it doesn't have
the humor, I guess, of of the

1180
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:33,240
others.
I mean, it's not devoid of

1181
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,360
humor.
There's some, there's some stuff

1182
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:38,320
between Midge and Scotty that's
funny.

1183
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:43,240
But so much of the movie is
about the exploration of this

1184
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:49,280
darkness of this guy who has
lost something and wants it back

1185
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:54,680
so badly that he will force
someone to become this thing

1186
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:56,920
that he lost.
And that's really heavy.

1187
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,400
Yeah.
It's Hitchcock laying his own

1188
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:05,280
demons out on screen for any and
knowing what we know about

1189
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:11,600
Hitchcock now and some of his
obsessions, some of his

1190
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:15,560
proclivities, you know, and he
did you know, he we haven't

1191
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:19,080
mentioned his wife Alma at all,
which is really a disservice in

1192
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:23,480
my part because she really was
like his right hand person.

1193
01:11:23,480 --> 01:11:27,920
And so much of what he, so many
of the decisions that he made

1194
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:32,600
creatively, he only made after
like she gave like her input and

1195
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:34,720
approval.
Like he really relied on her.

1196
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:39,880
And I, from what I've read, like
he remained faithful to her in

1197
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:43,200
terms of like deed, but I
wouldn't say like faithful to

1198
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,680
her in terms of like spirit.
And I don't really know much

1199
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:50,360
about how she felt, like, what
she accepted, like what she felt

1200
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:54,280
was like part of the bargain.
But I imagine this would be a

1201
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,200
tough movie for her to sit
through and watch, like knowing

1202
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:01,000
all the things that she did
about him and what she must have

1203
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,960
been put through.
And Stewart, I think gives It's

1204
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,520
Between This or A Wonderful Life
or his best performance.

1205
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:14,280
But if this is such a haunting,
haunting with the final shots of

1206
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:18,440
it or the the shot of him like
looking over the bell tower, it

1207
01:12:18,440 --> 01:12:21,240
just gets me every time.
Like I didn't come to this until

1208
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,400
my it's like again, I started so
late.

1209
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:27,840
So I think I was in a better
headspace to maybe understand a

1210
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,400
lot of it.
It's to me a perfect movie.

1211
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:32,880
Like it is an incredible.
It looks gorgeous.

1212
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:36,800
The use of like color,
especially green throughout this

1213
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:39,840
film, like that envy, that
jealousy, that wanting of what

1214
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:44,240
you can't have.
And Kim Novak is just brilliant.

1215
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,720
And this is what a find like.
What a discovery here.

1216
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:54,960
When she first appears in what
Ernie's the restaurant and the

1217
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,880
walls are all red and dark and
she walks into the room and and

1218
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:01,880
the lighting literally changes.
Like she literally lights up the

1219
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:07,120
room.
You get you get in Scotty's head

1220
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:14,280
at that point, you if if you are
not just immediately pulled in

1221
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:16,480
by her appearance on screen,
you're not going to get the

1222
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:19,800
movie.
And but it is just that moment

1223
01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:23,400
is just at shivers when I see
that every time.

1224
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,640
I was lucky enough to be able to
see this just a couple months

1225
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,880
ago theatrically.
And boy, I've seen it, you know,

1226
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:34,320
half a dozen times on video, but
seeing it theatrically is the

1227
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:37,360
incredible thing.
And you're right, the color in

1228
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:42,320
this, I think is more than maybe
any other Hitchcock movie is so

1229
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:47,000
vital to the appreciation of it.
I think that moment where

1230
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:51,680
there's there hotel room or her
apartment or whatever and

1231
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:54,240
there's like a green light
outside the window and it's like

1232
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:58,400
she walks out of that green mist
and she's sort of remade as

1233
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:04,880
Madeline in that moment is one
of the most incredible shots in

1234
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:07,840
any movie ever.
And you know, great stuff, you

1235
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:12,880
know, like the dream sequence
kind of one UPS what was done in

1236
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:16,480
spellbound as far as dream
sequences go.

1237
01:14:16,480 --> 01:14:20,880
And you really get the idea of
him just plunging into his own

1238
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:25,320
grave and falling forever.
And it's it's really incredible.

1239
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:29,160
The more I this is a mature
movie is a thing.

1240
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:35,600
This is this is a movie that is
an artist mining his own psyche

1241
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:38,520
in a way that we don't get very
often.

1242
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:41,080
No.
And it's really powerful.

1243
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:47,960
The scene where Scotty is so
insistent on remaking her over

1244
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:53,560
Madeline over like where he is
just fussing over every minute

1245
01:14:53,560 --> 01:14:57,320
detail and she's pushing back
against him initially and then

1246
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,760
finds herself powerless too.
I think it's like an insight

1247
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,880
into like Hitchcock is a
creative genius and a creative

1248
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,920
force, but it's just a
frightening scene to watch in

1249
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,920
terms of like the level of
manipulation that is going on in

1250
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,360
this scene.
It's like really terrifying as

1251
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:15,880
well.
Like it's not a horror movie in

1252
01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:19,840
any way, but it's a frightening
movie in a lot of ways as well.

1253
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:24,240
Like, I adore this movie.
It's it's fantastic.

1254
01:15:25,160 --> 01:15:28,240
Yeah.
But the failure of it, like it

1255
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:31,200
really stung Hitchcock.
Like it's something where I'm

1256
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,600
sure that he was at this point
that, you know, at this working

1257
01:15:34,600 --> 01:15:38,720
almost 4 decades and at this
point seeing the Clouseau's

1258
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:42,040
nipping in his heels.
Or like you mentioned, like he

1259
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:44,120
was not a fan of a William
Castle.

1260
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:47,800
Like, it must have stung him to
see these movies that Castle is

1261
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,040
making that are these gimmick
movies, and he's relying on

1262
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:55,120
gimmickry rather than artistry.
But he's cleaning up at the box

1263
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,960
office, where, you know, like
fans are turning out in droves.

1264
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:03,960
Where is Vertigo is
underappreciated, dismissed and

1265
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,440
is sent into obscurity for
decades.

1266
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:10,000
Yeah.
And one of the things, you know,

1267
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:14,600
even the success of Psycho was
kind of bittersweet in a way,

1268
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:20,080
because there was, I think the
quote is I give them hot dogs

1269
01:16:20,080 --> 01:16:22,840
and they eat it up and then I
give them rack of lamb and they

1270
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,440
reject it.
That's and I think he was

1271
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,120
talking about Vertigo.
I think this is the film he

1272
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:35,280
considered his best film and
that, you know, to to put your

1273
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:38,880
all into something and to lay
yourself that bear and to have

1274
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:44,840
it be so roundly just.
Yeah, rejected in its time.

1275
01:16:44,840 --> 01:16:47,520
Of course, now it's considered a
masterpiece.

1276
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,800
Yeah, but I don't think he lived
to see.

1277
01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,760
It he did not because he passed
in 1980.

1278
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,560
Yeah, yeah.
And and so people, the

1279
01:16:56,560 --> 01:17:01,760
reappraisal didn't really come
along until until the 80s.

1280
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:06,280
Yeah.
So which is which is a shame,

1281
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,120
but you know.
Have you ever seen the music

1282
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:12,480
video Last Cup of Sorrow by
Faith No More?

1283
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:18,280
I don't think so.
It is a it's Vertigo in 4

1284
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:20,160
minutes.
Wow, it's.

1285
01:17:20,160 --> 01:17:22,040
Really good.
It's really cheeky.

1286
01:17:22,280 --> 01:17:24,920
They recreate a lot of the set
pieces.

1287
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,400
There is a little bit more of an
S&M feel to it.

1288
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,680
I'm trying to think who I think
it's Evan Rachel Wood, I believe

1289
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:35,280
is the performer who does the
Kim Novak role.

1290
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:38,480
Mike Patton is the singer of
Faith No More.

1291
01:17:38,480 --> 01:17:40,360
It's brilliant.
Like it's really well.

1292
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,680
It's a great song for one.
Like it's I think Faith No More

1293
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:47,320
is like last great song and the
video is perfect like it is.

1294
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:50,640
So I I would seek that out after
we're done recording here.

1295
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:51,480
It's so.
Sure.

1296
01:17:51,480 --> 01:17:53,880
I'll have to give that a look.
Yeah, yeah, sounds cool.

1297
01:17:54,480 --> 01:17:57,480
But that's bringing us like near
the end of the decade.

1298
01:17:57,480 --> 01:18:01,120
And you're right, like with
Psycho, maybe doesn't get made

1299
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:07,000
if this film isn't a hit.
And I know we said like Rear

1300
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,840
Window is probably our our
favorite Hitchcock, but man,

1301
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:15,320
this might be a close second.
This movie is just so fucking

1302
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:19,040
entertaining. 1959 So North by
Northwest.

1303
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:22,160
Well, and Hitchcock knows that
this movie is going to work.

1304
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:26,000
And you can tell he's like,
yeah, this, this is easy for me

1305
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:29,360
almost.
I mean, obviously making any

1306
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:32,360
movie is a challenge.
There's it's really hard work to

1307
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:36,400
make a movie, but I think this
is familiar territory for him.

1308
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,360
Once again, you've got, you
know, one of his most reliable

1309
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:45,640
stars coming in to collaborate
with him Again, you have the

1310
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:50,240
wrong man pulled into this web
of intrigue.

1311
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:54,000
You have the you have the chase,
the cross country chase that

1312
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:58,760
he's been doing since 30s,
frankly, with various films and

1313
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:05,000
this kind of a slam dunk in a
way, but it's done.

1314
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:09,880
It's just the ultimate version
of that that he's been doing and

1315
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,000
some of the greatest set pieces
of all time.

1316
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:17,560
I mean, the biplane sequence,
the crop duster, it's hard to

1317
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,080
beat that.
It still plays so well.

1318
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:24,120
Like, again, this is a movie I
had not watched, but you're

1319
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:27,640
familiar with that scene and you
know immediately where it's

1320
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:29,680
from.
And even without context, it's

1321
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:31,600
such a brilliant, brilliant
scene.

1322
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:35,800
Yeah, yeah.
And there's some others that I

1323
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:37,680
love.
I love the drunk driving scene.

1324
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:40,480
I think that is, yeah, really
entertaining.

1325
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:46,520
I love James Mason as as the
villain and then his sort of

1326
01:19:46,520 --> 01:19:49,800
sidekick that he that he has.
Martin Landau is so.

1327
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:52,440
Great Martin Landau is so it's
again a.

1328
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,080
Funny.
Queer coded.

1329
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:59,440
Exactly villain.
Yeah, you see this so much in

1330
01:19:59,440 --> 01:20:03,600
often the queer characters are
the bad guys, but they're not

1331
01:20:03,640 --> 01:20:07,360
bad guys because they're queer,
if that right, Which I think

1332
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:09,920
would have been really.
And they're not like a feminine.

1333
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:15,360
You see Anthony Perkins and
Psycho as like a a male

1334
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,880
spinster.
But Landau is like he's menacing

1335
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:23,240
in this movie as the muscle.
Yeah, he's great.

1336
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:27,520
And I think Eva Marie St. says
she only did the one movie with

1337
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:32,640
him, but she's so good.
She she ranks right up there.

1338
01:20:32,640 --> 01:20:37,520
Sort of fits that that mold of,
you know, of the Kim Novak and

1339
01:20:37,520 --> 01:20:43,760
the and the Grace Kelly feeling,
you know, is is there just

1340
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:46,840
immediately.
And it's so different, you know,

1341
01:20:46,840 --> 01:20:50,320
because the other movie that I
think of what I think of Eva

1342
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:54,080
Marie St. is on the waterfront
where she's not glamorous at

1343
01:20:54,080 --> 01:20:56,800
all.
She's kind of, you know, dowdy

1344
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,600
looking.
But here she's she's just, you

1345
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:04,280
know, their hair and her makeup
and everything is all so much in

1346
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:07,880
that classic Hitchcock mold look
and everything.

1347
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:11,760
And she's so, I don't know,
she's she's intriguing and and

1348
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:17,120
that she's playing double agent
a little bit is is so much fun.

1349
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:20,840
And yeah.
This film, too, is so frank with

1350
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:24,680
its sexuality in a way, and
that's part of what makes Eva

1351
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:28,480
Marie St. so good in this role.
It's not that just that she I

1352
01:21:28,480 --> 01:21:32,080
mean, she's like a stunningly
beautiful woman in this movie,

1353
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,040
like in the comparison to on the
waterfront is so apartment.

1354
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:40,160
But the way that she's able to
like use double entendre with

1355
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:44,640
Carrie Grant and the way she's
able to kind of use intrigue and

1356
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:48,720
get under his skin, like she's
unforgettable in this movie like

1357
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:51,400
that.
What really makes her like so

1358
01:21:51,400 --> 01:21:55,840
incredibly alluring in this
movie is like her verbal skills,

1359
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:58,600
like the way she taught.
It's even more so than the way

1360
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:01,720
she looks.
And what I love about Hitchcock

1361
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:06,440
and what's really cheeky about
him is the way this movie ends.

1362
01:22:06,440 --> 01:22:10,440
Like the last shot of this film,
no doubt about it.

1363
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:14,160
You have the train going through
the tunnel, but then to open

1364
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:18,680
your next movie with our two
leads, like lying in bed post

1365
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:20,400
coitus.
Like, I don't think that's an

1366
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:24,440
accident that the first time you
see people on screen and Psycho,

1367
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,040
it immediately proceeded by the
end of North by Northwest with

1368
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:30,840
like the train going through the
tunnel.

1369
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:35,000
And that's Hitchcock being very,
very cheeky and kind of like

1370
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:40,600
giving up to your middle finger
to the sensors and the haze

1371
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:43,680
code.
In a lot of ways, Well, I mean,

1372
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:48,600
and Psycho went so far as in,
you know, just breaking the haze

1373
01:22:48,600 --> 01:22:51,240
code.
It was starting to weaken a bit

1374
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:55,080
in the 50s but you know by
throughout the 60s is 1 it just

1375
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:58,120
was shattered and Psycho had
played a big part in that.

1376
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:00,960
Yeah.
But yeah, North by Northwest, I

1377
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:02,840
don't know.
Yeah.

1378
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,680
Top three maybe, Yeah.
It's his most entertaining.

1379
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:10,240
It's his most entertaining to
watch, not just for the set

1380
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:14,720
pieces, but this might be Cary
Grant's like last great.

1381
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:19,120
Like we gave good performances
up to the end, but his real last

1382
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:23,160
stand out great performance I
think might be North by

1383
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,200
Northwest.
And you could see why he was

1384
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:29,080
like the biggest star in the
world for such a time.

1385
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:33,120
And I believe like, Stewart
wanted this role, which you can

1386
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:36,920
definitely understand, like
wanting to bounce back after

1387
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:42,400
Psych, I'm sorry, after Vertigo.
And I think like, Hitchcock had

1388
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:46,840
a bit of AI.
Don't know if he lay the blame

1389
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:51,040
at Stewart's feet for Vertigo
not succeeding, but he's like,

1390
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:52,000
Nah, you're too.
Old.

1391
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:54,760
Yeah, there was some of that.
There was.

1392
01:23:54,760 --> 01:24:01,240
The Stewart was too old for this
part was one of the many, many

1393
01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:04,080
sort of excuses that that
Hitchcock went through.

1394
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,160
Yeah.
For the failure of Vertigo, I

1395
01:24:07,160 --> 01:24:09,920
think the biggest reason for the
failure of Vertigo was it was

1396
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:14,720
just too far ahead of its time.
I that's the case sometimes and

1397
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:18,160
people catch up with them later
and go, oh that is really doing

1398
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,800
something interesting here.
Yeah, absolutely.

1399
01:24:20,840 --> 01:24:26,560
I want to save this conversation
for Psycho, but I want to think

1400
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:33,520
about the Hayes code and whether
or not Hitchcock actually

1401
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:37,880
benefited from it.
Because I think you see later on

1402
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:42,840
with Frenzy, which is a movie I
really like, but it's definitely

1403
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,320
lesser Hitchcock.
And that's where Hitchcock gets

1404
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:50,440
to be a lot more transgressive
and basically makes like they

1405
01:24:50,440 --> 01:24:54,640
call Psycho a proto slasher.
Frenzy is pretty close to a

1406
01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:59,560
slasher movie.
Yeah, I think the Hayes code

1407
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:03,400
probably benefited more artists
than they would like to admit.

1408
01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:06,840
We'll save it for next week.
But yeah, I think I don't want

1409
01:25:06,840 --> 01:25:08,960
to go too deep because I think
that'll be a part of our

1410
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:11,960
discussion.
So I don't know, like, Oh my

1411
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:13,640
goodness, we did this in a tight
90.

1412
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,200
I can't believe it was just
about.

1413
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,480
So all of this was just we
wanted to give our listeners

1414
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:22,120
like a little bit of a
background in the decade leading

1415
01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:25,920
up to Psycho and like, what went
into like, what was Hitchcock's

1416
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:28,320
thinking?
Because I think next week we'll

1417
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:33,280
talk a little bit about Ed Gein.
Very little just mentioned him

1418
01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:34,720
in passing.
I don't think we need to say a

1419
01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,000
lot there.
But we'll talk about Robert

1420
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:39,760
Block.
We'll talk about Hitchcock's

1421
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:43,280
breakup with Paramount and kind
of getting revigorated.

1422
01:25:43,280 --> 01:25:46,280
But you know, we talked about
Alfred Hitchcock's Presents.

1423
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:50,520
Psycho doesn't get made if it's
not for Alfred Hitchcock

1424
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:55,800
Presents because it gives him
the back lot he needs, but it

1425
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:59,440
also gives him the crew that he
needs as well.

1426
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:03,680
Absolutely.
And you know, he was searching

1427
01:26:03,680 --> 01:26:05,840
for material after North by
Northwest.

1428
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:10,600
I think he was wanting to do
something that was different and

1429
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:14,200
he because he, you know, like he
said, he sort of had done the

1430
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:18,120
ultimate version of the
Hitchcock film with North by

1431
01:26:18,120 --> 01:26:21,520
Northwest and with Rear Window.
I'm in my office and the

1432
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:23,880
cleaners just came so.
Oh, gotcha.

1433
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,400
We'll wrap up in a minute.
Yeah.

1434
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:31,360
So I mean, because of that, I
think him really wanting to do

1435
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:35,440
something unusual and something
new drives a lot of what leads

1436
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:37,800
him to psycho.
So that's that's, I think it's

1437
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:42,720
an interesting time, you know,
and he can see, he can sense

1438
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:47,320
that changes in the air.
And it definitely is, yeah.

1439
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:52,800
What's fascinating too, is he
it's the crew responsible for

1440
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:56,640
his greatest financial success
and made like Psycho made

1441
01:26:56,640 --> 01:27:00,400
Hitchcock, a very rich man.
And he never throws them a bone

1442
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:03,880
to work with like the television
crew again on his films.

1443
01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:05,720
He was like, no, you're my TV
crew.

1444
01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,480
Yeah.
Which I don't think speaks well

1445
01:27:08,480 --> 01:27:12,080
to him per SE, but but yeah,
well, yeah.

1446
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:15,440
Brian, any final thoughts before
we wrap up?

1447
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:19,200
Hey, lots of good movies in this
filmography, I think.

1448
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:22,360
Yeah.
So these movies from the 50s

1449
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:26,720
especially I think those of
those four that we sort of

1450
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,560
highlighted the most, Vertigo,
North by Northwest, Strangers on

1451
01:27:30,560 --> 01:27:33,280
the Train and Rear Window.
Great place to start if you've

1452
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:35,160
never if you've never dived into
Hitchcock.

1453
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:40,680
So yeah, yeah, good way to go.
To do that many movies in a

1454
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,680
decade, especially considering
the scale of North by Northwest,

1455
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:49,360
the scale of To Catch a Thief,
the scale of The Man Who Knew

1456
01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:52,400
Too much in Vertigo.
Like the scale of Vertigo.

1457
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:58,480
Yeah, probably the best paranoia
paranoid thriller set in San

1458
01:27:58,480 --> 01:28:00,800
Francisco.
Like This Side of Zodiac by

1459
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:07,600
David Fincher to do all those
movies in such a compact period

1460
01:28:07,600 --> 01:28:11,880
of time.
Like if he only did those 4

1461
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,120
movies over 20 years, we'd be
calling him an Alzheimer.

1462
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:19,320
Just it's, it's it really
boggles the mind, especially

1463
01:28:19,320 --> 01:28:22,240
when you think of like how hard
it is to make movies and how

1464
01:28:22,680 --> 01:28:26,640
we'll go years in between a, a
director's filmography now so

1465
01:28:26,640 --> 01:28:28,240
well.
Yeah, yeah.

1466
01:28:28,400 --> 01:28:31,480
I mean, there were.
The studio system might get a

1467
01:28:31,480 --> 01:28:33,760
lot of shit, but there was a lot
of good.

1468
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:36,200
There were a lot of benefits to
the studio system, too.

1469
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:40,960
Well, Brian, we did it.
I think we did it.

1470
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:42,720
We did it.
Any.

1471
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,400
Any thing coming up for you this
month?

1472
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:47,720
Any writing coming up?
Anything you want to promote?

1473
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,960
The only thing is keep an eye
out for Holy Terrors.

1474
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,200
We are going to launch this
month.

1475
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:57,320
We're just waiting on our our
final design for our logo is

1476
01:28:57,320 --> 01:28:58,040
about it.
OK.

1477
01:28:58,240 --> 01:29:01,320
And then we're going to start
posting some some stuff this

1478
01:29:01,320 --> 01:29:04,560
month.
If you guys want to throw, even

1479
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:09,480
if it's like a 30 minute teaser
on our feed and then we can like

1480
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:12,560
direct you guys so we can
definitely let's talk.

1481
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:16,360
So if you want to throw that on,
it's like a bonus, even if a

1482
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:19,560
whole episode or just like a 30
minute teaser.

1483
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:23,080
And then we direct listeners in
the notes to your show, like

1484
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:24,880
we'd be happy to do that,
obviously.

1485
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,640
That would be amazing.
OK listeners, we hope you've dug

1486
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:30,480
this.
We hope you're back next week.

1487
01:29:30,480 --> 01:29:33,600
I'm really excited to talk about
Psycho.

1488
01:29:33,600 --> 01:29:37,640
I got my notes done a month ago
and I'll be adding to those this

1489
01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:40,720
week, but I'm feeling raring to
go like it's going to be a

1490
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:42,800
challenge and I wanted to do
this.

1491
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,480
So like the Psycho episodes, Not
five hours long basically.

1492
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:50,480
I think so much of this decade
informs that movie.

1493
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:53,200
We hope you've enjoyed this.
If you have, please rate,

1494
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:56,480
review, and subscribe to us
everywhere you get your podcast.

1495
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,720
5 stars and a few kind words
really helps us out.

1496
01:30:00,080 --> 01:30:03,920
If you really love what we do,
please become a patron by going

1497
01:30:03,920 --> 01:30:08,320
to patreon.com/pod and the
Pendulum for as little as 2

1498
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,160
bucks a month.
We have about 80 hours of

1499
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:14,440
content up there now, including
we did a really fun episode we

1500
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:18,360
recorded on New Year's Eve that
is now up our favorite like non

1501
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:22,400
horror movies and TV shows of
the past year.

1502
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:25,960
Brian, on your your
recommendation, we just started

1503
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:29,200
watching Shrinking and it's
incredible.

1504
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:33,240
I will say that I feel very seen
as a therapist for some of the

1505
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:37,040
things that not everything, but
some of the techniques that

1506
01:30:37,040 --> 01:30:40,440
Siegel uses.
I'm like, yeah, I, I feel this.

1507
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,880
Three episodes and I'm fucking
loving the show.

1508
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:47,440
I'm glad to hear that.
And that was a really fun

1509
01:30:47,440 --> 01:30:51,080
because Nicole is in full
villain mode in that.

1510
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:55,800
I absolutely love it.
Like it's awesome.

1511
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,120
Like it's just, it's just so
much fun.

1512
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:03,280
So become a patron today and you
get to hear that along with a

1513
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:07,120
lot of other really cool stuff,
including the first two Back to

1514
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:09,240
the Future movies, which Brian
and I cover.

1515
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:12,520
And we'll bring you part three
later on this month.

1516
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:15,080
But other than that, folks,
we're out.

1517
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:18,800
We're back next week.
It's kicking off 2026 with the

1518
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:21,840
Psycho franchise.
What could be better than that?

1519
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:26,280
Gus Van Sant, 1998 bucks and
Blu-ray.

1520
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:28,840
Let's go.
Take care, everybody.